Alaska TA: what's in it for me?

[Boxboy]

A measly 10.86% pay raise, better furlough language (woohoo!), and the ability to whore ourselves out even more. These are basically the highlights that I can find after reading the TA, cover to cover several times.
Pay: FOs make less than 8 years ago while captains make more. By 2016, we'll be the lowest paid 737 pilots.
Scope: Captains are seat protected in the event of a merger. FOs are SOL. No other Scope worth a damn.
Retirement: Status Quo
Medical/Dental: Status Quo

Oh but wait.... we get an extra 15 cents an hour in per diem!

 

[jonjuan]

A measly 10.86% pay raise, better furlough language (woohoo!), and the ability to whore ourselves out even more. These are basically the highlights that I can find after reading the TA, cover to cover several times.
Pay: FOs make less than 8 years ago while captains make more. By 2016, we'll be the lowest paid 737 pilots.
Scope: Captains are seat protected in the event of a merger. FOs are SOL. No other Scope worth a damn.
Retirement: Status Quo
Medical/Dental: Status Quo

Oh but wait.... we get an extra 15 cents an hour in per diem!

How are captains seat protected in a merger? Isn't that up to an arbitrator or the acquiring company to decide? Sounds like language to ensure a yes vote for the CAs.

 

[Boxboy]

How are captains seat protected in a merger? Isn't that up to an arbitrator or the acquiring company to decide? Sounds like language to ensure a yes vote for the CAs.

See pg. 1-3 under Labor Protective Provisions (LPP). Read the last sentence on pg.1-4 (top of page). It says, "...provided that implementation of such list and of such conditions and restrictions does not in and of itself entitle a pilot from either pre-Transaction carrier to displace another from the latter's Position, nor result....".
Now look up the definition of "Position" in the definition section, pg. 2-3. It says, "Holder of a Captain vacancy award and a monthly bid block...."

This is all lawyer talk, so if I'm reading this incorrectly, someone please chime in.

 

[flythere]

I feel betrayed by my union reps! It's very interesting to listen how some capt's are justifying their yes vote! Pretty pathetic!!!

I see why guys like DL are so happy and go the extra mile, this contract was crafted with guys like him in mind!!! There is nothing in this contract for me or my fellow FO's

 

[Moosemunch]

The TA is a sellout! Plain and simple. There is nothing in it for the F/O's. Pre-Kasher wages, no scope, no improvements. No growth, no upgrades!

Went to the Seattle roadshow. The union reps stood in back and were so arrogant. They thought they were the real deal. I said hi and got the cold shoulder blow off like I was a second class citizen. Very insulting..

Alaska was brilliant hiring our old union leaders into management positions over the last two years. Talk about a good old boys club. Our MEC & NC members are heading upstairs if this thing passes..

Meanwhile, they will sit back like fat cats enjoying 90+ pay guarantee's.
I forgot, was the 90hr guarantee in the survey?

 

[Boxboy]

The TA is a sellout! Plain and simple. There is nothing in it for the F/O's. Pre-Kasher wages, no scope, no improvements. No growth, no upgrades!

Not even Pre-Kasher for FOs. TOS FO was paid $138. TOS Cpt was paid $196. $4 less for FOs and $4 more for cpts in the TA. Pitiful!

 

[johnsonrod]

Those Skywest MRJs will look great in Alaska colors in 2017...

 

[amcnd]

Those Skywest MRJs will look great in Alaska colors in 2017...

Alaska is way to conservitive.. Hoizion had what 25 700's. Skw flys 5.. And this fall getting 3 more.... Had to fight hard, even to talk Alaska into 3 more from what i heard... Doubt you will see 10,20 or even 50 MRJ's flying for Alaska.. Won't happen...

 

[Sedona16]

Alaska is way to conservitive.. Hoizion had what 25 700's. Skw flys 5.. And this fall getting 3 more.... Had to fight hard, even to talk Alaska into 3 more from what i heard... Doubt you will see 10,20 or even 50 MRJ's flying for Alaska.. Won't happen...

Amazing how the "hope for the best" peeps never learn. Btw, historical data is no predictor of the future.

 

[Ocity]

The TA is an absolute joke!!!! ALPA has fked the FOs. I'm ready to push back and start a card drive.

 

[xjhawk]

Alaska code shares with Delta right? Why not Skywest code shares with Alaska since they have no scope. Delta and Alaska could sell tickets on those MRJ's.

 

[johnsonrod]

Alaska is way to conservitive.. Hoizion had what 25 700's. Skw flys 5.. And this fall getting 3 more.... Had to fight hard, even to talk Alaska into 3 more from what i heard... Doubt you will see 10,20 or even 50 MRJ's flying for Alaska.. Won't happen...

Skywest would not be ordering all of those MRJs and E175s if they didn't think they could place many of them with their current partners. Delta has much tougher scope than Alaska. I hope you're right but never say never...

 

[jonjuan]

Skywest would not be ordering all of those MRJs and E175s if they didn't think they could place many of them with their current partners. Delta has much tougher scope than Alaska. I hope you're right but never say never...

Skywest could also be setting themselves up for an "Independence Air" scenario, there Einstein.

 

[johnsonrod]

Skywest could also be setting themselves up for an "Independence Air" scenario, there Einstein.

Gee thanks, Stephen Hawking...

Skywest would do this and jeopardize their current relationships with their feed partners like Delta, UAL and Alaska as a new competitor? Really? Not sure that would even be allowed under the pilot contracts - I believe Repubic is grandfathered (the Frontier exception).

I suppose Skywest could try it on thier own with aircraft at 76 seats or less but nothing larger due to current agreements (Indy Air had A319s and had to drop ACA feed relationships). Good luck to Skywest if they want to try to compete with their partners... As I recall, Expressjet certainly did not do well on its own when flying out of ONT - but Skywest could give it a try. Skywest would also need to develop marketing and reservation-related capabilities on its own. So, that scenario is not likely.

 

[igneousy2]

Alaska is way to conservitive.. Hoizion had what 25 700's. Skw flys 5.. And this fall getting 3 more.... Had to fight hard, even to talk Alaska into 3 more from what i heard... Doubt you will see 10,20 or even 50 MRJ's flying for Alaska.. Won't happen...

The Skywest flying has gone from 4 to 8 in two years...at this rate they'll be at 40 airplanes by the end of this contract.

 

[imacdog]

Alaska is way to conservitive.. Hoizion had what 25 700's. Skw flys 5.. And this fall getting 3 more.... Had to fight hard, even to talk Alaska into 3 more from what i heard... Doubt you will see 10,20 or even 50 MRJ's flying for Alaska.. Won't happen...

In that case, there shouldn't be any problem for the company to put that in writing in the contract, correct?

 

[AK737FO]

A measly 10.86% pay raise, better furlough language (woohoo!), and the ability to whore ourselves out even more. These are basically the highlights that I can find after reading the TA, cover to cover several times.
Pay: FOs make less than 8 years ago while captains make more. By 2016, we'll be the lowest paid 737 pilots.
Scope: Captains are seat protected in the event of a merger. FOs are SOL. No other Scope worth a damn.
Retirement: Status Quo
Medical/Dental: Status Quo

Oh but wait.... we get an extra 15 cents an hour in per diem!

BoxBoy,
There are so many inaccuracies in your post - I wonder if you are reading the same TA that I am? It just goes to show that most people see and believe what they want. I bet you had your mind made up to vote no 6 months before this TA came out. I would bet that if they paid you $500 an hour as a 2nd year F/O, you would find a reason to beat your chest, howl at the moon and vote no.
This is a fair contract. We can all nit-pick it to death but the whole package is good. If we turn it down, we will regret it. Well I should say those of us who vote YES will regret it. Those who vote no will tell us how bad ALPA is, and enjoy their self impossed $50,000 plus pay cut as time marches on...

 

[Old School 737]

BoxBoy,
There are so many inaccuracies in your post - I wonder if you are reading the same TA that I am? It just goes to show that most people see and believe what they want. I bet you had your mind made up to vote no 6 months before this TA came out. I would bet that if they paid you $500 an hour as a 2nd year F/O, you would find a reason to beat your chest, howl at the moon and vote no.
This is a fair contract. We can all nit-pick it to death but the whole package is good. If we turn it down, we will regret it. Well I should say those of us who vote YES will regret it. Those who vote no will tell us how bad ALPA is, and enjoy their self impossed $50,000 plus pay cut as time marches on...

Did you move to the left seat and crossover to the darkside???

 

[Ocity]

BoxBoy,
There are so many inaccuracies in your post - I wonder if you are reading the same TA that I am? It just goes to show that most people see and believe what they want. I bet you had your mind made up to vote no 6 months before this TA came out. I would bet that if they paid you $500 an hour as a 2nd year F/O, you would find a reason to beat your chest, howl at the moon and vote no.
This is a fair contract. We can all nit-pick it to death but the whole package is good. If we turn it down, we will regret it. Well I should say those of us who vote YES will regret it. Those who vote no will tell us how bad ALPA is, and enjoy their self impossed $50,000 plus pay cut as time marches on...

Spoken like a true Arctic Eagle...

 

[Ski Bum]

Would you be happy making 10%-20% less than your counterparts at DAL, SWA, and UAL(the main comparisons being made at the roadshows)? Would we even be having a conversation about a TA if it were captains or TOS FOs with that kind of differential? NO. So, since that is the case with year 1-5 FOs with this TA, please don't tell me this thing is a good deal and I am just a naysayer.

 

[msmb]

Are you high?? This is not a fair contract. This will put me way behind. Inflation is about to go way up, Obama care is another wild card... This contract is below average on every level... This pilot group needs to get some balls and tell ALPA to start acting in OUR best interest. We need to REPLACE the entire MEC and NC. Clearly they have lost touch with the line pilots and their arrogance is unacceptable!!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

BoxBoy,

This is a fair contract. We can all nit-pick it to death but the whole package is good. If we turn it down, we will regret it. Well I should say those of us who vote YES will regret it. Those who vote no will tell us how bad ALPA is, and enjoy their self impossed $50,000 plus pay cut as time marches on...

I got no skin in this as a Delta Puke....but this sentence is eerily familiar to the line DPN and DALPA were using to sell our deal. Just sayin....

 

[Mamma]

What a load of feces!!! This is NOT a fair contract. Check the CA-FO ratios out for years 1-5. Then look at their retirement. Lowest in industry. You keep looking at TOS comparisons but they don't add up with our years 1-5 FOs. They pay union dues and should be treated fairly.

 

[AK737FO]

Ocity - "Spoken like a true Arctic Eagle" - Why Thank You!

Ski Bum - I don't see the 10% to 20% less that you are talking about. The TA shows that our F/O's are within 1% or less of industry average. Now if year 1 to 5 pay is not to your liking, then you should have chosen a different profession. I sure didn't enjoy B-scale, but we all somehow got through it, knowing that better pay was coming. I can only suggest that you think long term, not just today.

msmb - inflation going up and obamacare is not really our companies fault now is it? This contract is not below average. Matter a fact, if you choose to add in your PBP you will find that on any given year, we just might be the highest paid 737 pilots in the nation. If we follow your plan, turn down the TA, replace the entire MEC and NC - how long do you think that will take? How long, under your plan to even get men back at the table to try to get more? 12 months? 18 months? 24 months? Your plan will probably cost me and my family about $70,000. How much will it cost you? That is not a plan. That's just not logical. No thanks.

 

[Mamma]

I'm not an FO affected by year 1-5. You said this was a fair contract...all I showed was it is not. Nice to see its cool for you to throw the younger guys under the bus so you get yours.

 

[fam62c]

Are you high?? This is not a fair contract. This will put me way behind. Inflation is about to go way up, Obama care is another wild card... This contract is below average on every level... This pilot group needs to get some balls and tell ALPA to start acting in OUR best interest. We need to REPLACE the entire MEC and NC. Clearly they have lost touch with the line pilots and their arrogance is unacceptable!!

And then what, you automatically get a better offer from the company?

 

[Mamma]

And then what, you automatically get a better offer from the company?

If the contract passes then they have not lost touch with the line pilot. A certain segment, yes. But if it passes, then they can say they did their job.

 

[Old School 737]

This is not a great deal ... Is it .. Ok ..I don't Think so ... Others might .. But This company has a history of not really doing exactly what they said they were going to do.... As nice and friendly as they seem now They could all be out tomorrow with new management and we need to get what we Deserve now... There's nothing stopping the company in year 3 saying that they are hurting and we need paycuts from you guys and we prob would do it ...what happened last time that happened ??? Anybody ??? .. but do you think it would work the other way ... Hell no if we came to them in three years and said hey we want a payraise before the five-year contract they would laugh their asses off...

 

[Ocity]

And then what, you automatically get a better offer from the company?

Are you so certain we won't? Set aside the Stockholm syndrome afflicted MEC and think through our options. The fa's are beyond pissed that they don't have a contract. Maybe we coordinate and organize with them to achieve compensation for all of our flight crews that aren't insulting.

The MEC scary show just posses me off. I'm not afraid of voicing my disapproval in a vote. IMO ALPA failed BIG TIME. The APA's contract will leave us in the dust in two years....they work for a BANKRUPT carrier.

 

[msmb]

If we vote this turd down AND act like a real pilot group the company would be back at the table in no time! Anything that makes them stop counting their money gets their attention real fast!