AirTran MEC CYA

[malibuVride]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnmgsZ5mQDU

I wonder if these people knew they were being recorded during these conversations? What is the point of all this?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Or better yet? Did the people who recorded it know they are committing a felony for not notifying the recordee?

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Or better yet? Did the people who recorded it know they are committing a felony for not notifying the recordee?

I'm not familiar with that statute. Can you please site your source?

 

[maxblast72]

Recording without knowledge laws vary state by state. I hope CJ did her homework before publishing her results. Might violate SWA social media policy too.

 

[PCL_128]

Pretty sure it's legal in Georgia without the other party knowing.

 

[Phlintstone]

If the conversations were in a public place, there usually are no governing statutes. If it was a private conversation, in a private setting then they apply. With the background noise, I would imagine they were in a public setting.

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/georgia-recording-law

Max, how do you know it was CJ? It sounds like her on the audio but that does not mean she was the one recording it.

Is it any wonder that we ended up with what we got!? Dysfunctional committee + ZERO leadership = crappy results.

Phred

 

[PCL_128]

There's also copies of these recordings going around, from what I've heard, so even if she did record them, that doesn't necessarily mean that she's the one who posted them on YouTube.

 

[B73av8r]

Recording without knowledge laws vary state by state. I hope CJ did her homework before publishing her results. Might violate SWA social media policy too.

How do you know it was CJ that posted it, or are you just assuming that and just trying to defame her character again?

It seems she has ALWAYS done her homework. SWA social media policy? Now you're really reaching.

What were all those protections again Max?

 

[Quiet Flight]

Hey look, a new way to look like a monkey banging a football. Fantastic.

 

[Kharma Police]

How do you know it was CJ that posted it, or are you just assuming that and just trying to defame her character again?

It seems she has ALWAYS done her homework. SWA social media policy? Now you're really reaching.

What were all those protections again Max?

I agree, I don't think it was Big Sis, she is a little bit too ree-ree for this stunt. Sounds more like the work of Slick.

 

[SWA Bubba]

For those of us not in the know, can we assume that "Big Sis" and "Slick" are current or former AirTran ALPA officers? Do all of those guys have cool nicknames?

Bubba

 

[27 driver]

For those of us not in the know, can we assume that "Big Sis" and "Slick" are current or former AirTran ALPA officers? Do all of those guys have cool nicknames?

Bubba

1. Yes
2. No

 

[USARET]

fatheredbygod2 is a TB signature line.

 

[redflyer65]

Interesting.


The only facts that matter....


AIP1 was always going to be better than whatever came next. Period.

 

[PCL_128]

AIP1 was always going to be better than whatever came next. Period.

I think you actually believe that nonsense. Which is sad, because Gary is going to use that naivete to his advantage against you. It's only a matter of time.

 

[fletch717]

Interesting.


The only facts that matter....


AIP1 was always going to be better than whatever came next. Period.

Remember your words when GK drops your new contract proposal on you, right now randy Babbitt is tearing it apart word by word. You won't be happy when it happens to you and it WILL happen.

 

[GoodTimes]

Oh the irony!

PCL and Fletch telling us how Gary is going to do business. That's rich.

Predicting Gary's next move isn't exactly your forte.

 

[B73av8r]

Interesting.


The only facts that matter....


AIP1 was always going to be better than whatever came next. Period.

Red,

I agree with you on both points. It is interesting.

And you are correct, SLI9 was always going to be better for the SWA pilot group vs arbitration. Period.

BTW, Where are all those protections again Max? Max? Ohhh Max.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Fletch, let's get the record straight. We are not scared of GK or Babitt, but we are terrified of SWAPA!!!

 

[B73av8r]

Fletch, let's get the record straight. We are not scared of GK or Babitt, but we are terrified of SWAPA!!!

You have to admit, that's funny right there.

 

[fletch717]

Oh the irony!

PCL and Fletch telling us how Gary is going to do business. That's rich.

Predicting Gary's next move isn't exactly your forte.

Stevie wonder could see what's comming. since I will be a bystander, Ill have a ringside seat to this train wreck.

 

[Parethd70]

Sounds to me like she was stupid enough to think that one pilot being downgraded caused ALL the fences to come down. The reality was the downgraded pilot lost his seat, but not the whole fence.

 

[B73av8r]

Sounds to me like she was stupid enough to think that one pilot being downgraded caused ALL the fences to come down. The reality was the downgraded pilot lost his seat, but not the whole fence.

You might want to listen to and read it again. Yes the whole fence, to never be seen again. Even when our Special Ed heard it, he could follow that point being made.

 

[fletch717]

Sounds to me like she was stupid enough to think that one pilot being downgraded caused ALL the fences to come down. The reality was the downgraded pilot lost his seat, but not the whole fence.

The way jack explained it sounded that if SWA downgraded 1 pilot then all the fences and protections come down. Did I not hear him correctly?

 

[redflyer65]

Remember your words when GK drops your new contract proposal on you, right now randy Babbitt is tearing it apart word by word. You won't be happy when it happens to you and it WILL happen.

Your comparing our ongoing Section Six with the SLI?

Very different my friend. About as different as your first agreement and the second.

How is Babbit tearing down our contract? Do tell..

 

[redflyer65]

Red,

I agree with you on both points. It is interesting.

And you are correct, SLI9 was always going to be better for the SWA pilot group vs arbitration. Period.

BTW, Where are all those protections again Max? Max? Ohhh Max.

You still believe Gary would have ever let it go to arbitration? How many times did he say he wanted a negotiated agreeement again?

Maybe Max has the answer..

 

[B73av8r]

You still believe Gary would have ever let it go to arbitration?

Yes.

How many times did he say he wanted a negotiated agreeement again?

He may want a pony ride on his birthday too, buteven if he says it over and over again, he may not get what he wants when he wants it.

Maybe Max has the answer..

I think what Max has to say needs to be taken with a pinch of the entire salt mine.

 

[humveedriver]

If nothing else, you have seen how seen how the AirTran pilot group was presented with several "truths". It was difficult to know what the real story was with an absence of strong leadership from our Chaiman and the divided factions of subcommittees below him. Looking at how it all played out, I'm grateful for the additional seniority numbers I got versus AIP1. AIP1 would have offered a temp pay increase for CPTs prior to downgrade and FO's an earlier pay increase.

 

[Parethd70]

The way jack explained it sounded that if SWA downgraded 1 pilot then all the fences and protections come down. Did I not hear him correctly?

Surely you read AIP 1? You aren't taking what appears to be a biased recording as truth? Who knows how this recording was edited.....one thing for sure....Jack appears to be more than frustrated when he tells Christine to read the agreement.

 

[maxblast72]

The way jack explained it sounded that if SWA downgraded 1 pilot then all the fences and protections come down. Did I not hear him correctly?

You did not hear him correctly. You need to read Side Letter 9, Paragraph H and Q&A #37 and #38 again. An appendix to Side Letter 9 listed 851 AirTran Captains that were to be given Captain Retention Slots that expired on 9/27/2020. No SWA FO could upgrade until all AirTran pilots with a Captain Retention slot sitting in the right seat were offered their seat back.

There were 3 conditions that would cause a Captain Retention Slot to be surrendered forever (SL9 Para H.2 through H.4):

1. A pilot retires
2. A pilot voluntarily downgrades himself
3. A pilot with a Captain Retention Slot and sitting in the right seat bypasses his first opportunity at re-upgrade.

Let's run through an example calling it Vacancy Bid 14-A (the first vacancy bid of 2014). Let's say Vacancy Bid 14-A had a plus 15 B737 CA and minus 25 B717 CA for a net reduction of 10 CA positions (as 3 B737-800s replace 5 B717s). Since normal Southwest Captain protections apply (SL9 Para H.1) in addition to the Captain Retention slot program (SL9 Para H.2), 15 of the displaced AirTran CAs would be guaranteed B737 CA vacancies if they wanted them (Q&A #37). The other 10 B717 CAs would be involuntarily downgraded. Since the downgraded AirTran pilots had Captain Retention slots, they had to be offered re-upgrade prior to any SWA FOs upgrading regardless of system seniority.

When referring to fences coming down, the fence between fleets dropped with a net reduction of CAs (for that one month's bid). In the B717 early departure scenario, the reductions would come from the B717 side triggering the movements listed above. If it was a seasonal downgrade and B737 CA positions were reduced as well, SWA B737 CA could displace to B717 CA (and thus force junior AirTran B717 CAs to the right seat). However, those downgraded AirTran B717 CAs would not lose their Captain Retention slots.