Could JetBlue be next?

[dicko]

Ditto. I respect you. But you aren't being honest about being a hater.

If Hawaiian had bought AT at the same time, you would have made every argument (widebodies) to have a SLI slanted in your favor- even though they were the larger, more profitable carrier.

Pilots from other carriers pile on here, bc it's popular to hate on SWA- the contradictions industry wide are amazing- literally came out of the mouth of a captain I flew with at my old legacy: "SWA has been the worst thing for the industry" "it's pretty sad when southwest treats us better than our company does" said about 10 minutes apart

It's a flat out pipe dream that ANY other carrier would have treated AT employees better than SWA has. It's dishonest.

It's also dishonest to think that an arbitrator would have awarded a list better for AT pilots than the list we got.

Where do you think the company got the list they used?

Sat around a BBQ and figured it out themselves?

No, they hired merger consultants, former arbitrators, and formulated what they predicted an arbitrator would do- that's what they did.

they wanted the list EXPEDITED so that the battle wouldn't rage for years on end, disrupt the merger, negatively affect the culture, and set a bad example for the other unions. IE: they were protecting their investment by being pro-active. we can argue the merits of that, but its what they do and they communicated it clearly. We were asked to take the lead in this merger and AGREE to a list without going to arbitration- AT wasn't cooperating with that. From the outset they were playing games, and had no motivation to facilitate everything in a smooth manner. No AT pilot will tell you that their union was a well oiled, unified force for good in this. It was neaurotic as all hell- defying mgmt requests many times along the way, while swapa was cooperating and going about professionally in representing our interests.

Arbitration is a legal right that senators bond and mccaskill came up with in response to TWA- it isn't what the CEO wanted and he verbalized that clearly. He wanted the pilots to lead, set an example as the most consequential seniority list in the company- so that every group didn't feel the need to take their lists all the way to a long drawn out arbitration- agK is the CEO, and that's the way he wanted to lead this company- Or do you think that govt ought to be that hands on in union matters of private companies?

So rewrite history all you want Dan- there is not another pilot group who would've treated AT any better than we have. Not one.

I dare you to say there is, but we all know you don't believe it.

Possibly the most intellectually dishonest and delusional post I've ever read. What's next for you Wave ? Are you going to start removing history books from the schools and 'amending' them ?

 

[General Lee]

So you're comparing the AirTran pilots to the Venezuelans?

No, just giving historical perspective. The use of strong armed tactics is NEVER good in any negotiation or election. That would be bad if used at any airline, too. Have a great day!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Possibly the most intellectually dishonest and delusional post I've ever read. What's next for you Wave ? Are you going to start removing history books from the schools and 'amending' them ?

Says the guy who expected DOH and a 50% payraise.

The arbitor most likely would have made the list worse for those at AAI. The most recent decisions bare this out for all to see. Welcome to reality.

 

[Dan Roman]

Actually, I'm with Dan here. I watch Hawaii Five-O every week, and they push Hawaiian Airlines on a lot of episodes. Heck, it's even featured predominantly in the opening credits! If SWA bought Hawaiian, they'd have to cancel the damn show. No way the locals allow that.

Anyway, Dan- I think you took somebody's bait too seriously. I agree that there's no way a SWA-Hawaiian matchup would work for the reasons you mentioned earlier about no realistic tie-in with our operating model. On the other hand, it was probably most likely a joke in the first place, rather than a serious suggestion.

Bubba

P.S. By the way, I went to Hawaii on vacation recently, and flew over on Hawaiian. I was going to go up to the flight deck and shout, "Screw you Dan Roman! Southwest rulz!" But then I noticed it was a B767 instead of a A330, so it probably wouldn't have been you. Instead of a good laugh, I probably would have just received an escort off the airplane and into a drunk tank somewhere.

That would have been pretty classic...and I would have welcomed you wholeheartedly! BTW even Dunkerly had a cameo on the show!

I do plead guilty to being overprotective of what we have here.

 

[Dan Roman]

Ditto. I respect you. But you aren't being honest about being a hater.

If Hawaiian had bought AT at the same time, you would have made every argument (widebodies) to have a SLI slanted in your favor- even though they were the larger, more profitable carrier.

Pilots from other carriers pile on here, bc it's popular to hate on SWA- the contradictions industry wide are amazing- literally came out of the mouth of a captain I flew with at my old legacy: "SWA has been the worst thing for the industry" "it's pretty sad when southwest treats us better than our company does" said about 10 minutes apart

It's a flat out pipe dream that ANY other carrier would have treated AT employees better than SWA has. It's dishonest.

It's also dishonest to think that an arbitrator would have awarded a list better for AT pilots than the list we got.

Where do you think the company got the list they used?

Sat around a BBQ and figured it out themselves?

No, they hired merger consultants, former arbitrators, and formulated what they predicted an arbitrator would do- that's what they did.

they wanted the list EXPEDITED so that the battle wouldn't rage for years on end, disrupt the merger, negatively affect the culture, and set a bad example for the other unions. IE: they were protecting their investment by being pro-active. we can argue the merits of that, but its what they do and they communicated it clearly. We were asked to take the lead in this merger and AGREE to a list without going to arbitration- AT wasn't cooperating with that. From the outset they were playing games, and had no motivation to facilitate everything in a smooth manner. No AT pilot will tell you that their union was a well oiled, unified force for good in this. It was neaurotic as all hell- defying mgmt requests many times along the way, while swapa was cooperating and going about professionally in representing our interests.

Arbitration is a legal right that senators bond and mccaskill came up with in response to TWA- it isn't what the CEO wanted and he verbalized that clearly. He wanted the pilots to lead, set an example as the most consequential seniority list in the company- so that every group didn't feel the need to take their lists all the way to a long drawn out arbitration- agK is the CEO, and that's the way he wanted to lead this company- Or do you think that govt ought to be that hands on in union matters of private companies?

So rewrite history all you want Dan- there is not another pilot group who would've treated AT any better than we have. Not one.

I dare you to say there is, but we all know you don't believe it.

I don't agree with you Wave, but it was very good job of putting your perspective out there. To little time to go all the way through it, but I'll give you an example of were I'm coming from. Your comment indicating "our" widebody flying would be on the table says it all. We wouldn't and shouldn't give that up as well as all the inter-island flying. That's what we bring to the table.

 

[waveflyer]

I do plead guilty to being overprotective of what we have here.

And yet you don't understand the SWA perspective?

 

[Dan Roman]

And yet you don't understand the SWA perspective?

Of course I do. That doesn't make it right. That said, about 10 years ago a merger was proposed between HA and AQ. Two similar airlines in much the same way as SWA/AirTran. I can honestly say I took the high road and wanted the SLI to be as fair as possible for BOTH sides and I didn't think anyone from one side should be taking any flying the other side brought to the table.

 

[waveflyer]

I doubt it- the consolidation of those two would have led to some "efficiencies" aka reductions- so who would bear the brunt of that in your scenario?
Would you be pissed if HA pilots got downgraded or furloughed after the merger,?

 

[B6Busdriver]

Did someone say something about JetBlue?

 

[Dan Roman]

I doubt it- the consolidation of those two would have led to some "efficiencies" aka reductions- so who would bear the brunt of that in your scenario?
Would you be pissed if HA pilots got downgraded or furloughed after the merger,?

Absolutely, and if someone bought us, reduced our flying and than had the audacity to say "Hey, we are all in this together and let's see some warrior spirit and teamwork!", I'd be REALLY pissed!