Could JetBlue be next?

[Dan Roman]

Since when does that matter to SWA ?

Ha, that's the point, despite what some think, their track record would be a huge factor if they tried to takeover Hawaiian. That said, if SWA suddenly thought they want a A330/767 operation in the middle of the pacific, it would indicate they are really desperate to reinvent themselves. I really don't think they are in trouble and want to throw out what has been working for them the last 30 years.

 

[wscrj]

I'm curious Dan. Any thoughts on the Eskimo and HA joining forces? It's come up around here of late.

 

[Dan Roman]

I'm curious Dan. Any thoughts on the Eskimo and HA joining forces? It's come up around here of late.

Actually that rumor gets floated around ever since you guys started Hawaii service. I remember a couple years age some AK guys told some of our pilots that it was a done deal and our respective MEC's were meeting as they spoke. He said he knew one of the pilots in the meeting. It was totally false. You guys are very successful as a 737 operator with room to grow in a lot of places I would think. Seems to me an Airbus hub in HNL doesn't fit at all. We both have solid niches doing what we do, but they really don't seem to match up. An Alaska Airlines with a relatively small Intl hub in HNL seems like it would propel AK from a very successful 737 operation to a junior version of the old USAir, a too small "big" airline.

 

[canyonblue]

Let me try a loaded answer for a loaded question. Let's say the merger with another airline scenario goes the career relatively unfazed scenario....I would accept it and actually enjoy the change. The scenario you are talking about would be like the DAL/NWA merger.

That didn't go all that well for the Northwest pilots. Many of the guys I talked to were not all that happy about losing a couple years of seniority. Of course the Delto guys treat it like it was the best SLI ever, and think we screwed over the AAI guys. At least the Deltos got stock.

 

[Dan Roman]

That didn't go all that well for the Northwest pilots. Many of the guys I talked to were not all that happy about losing a couple years of seniority. Of course the Delto guys treat it like it was the best SLI ever, and think we screwed over the AAI guys. At least the Deltos got stock.

Well the reality is all mergers suck.

 

[HowardBorden]

The uproar in Hawaii if SWA thought they could "takeover" Hawaiian would be huge to say the least. They would have to battle a public and political sentiment that would be far beyond what you would expect. I'm just scratching the surface when I make that comment.

Let me just start by saying that I also don't think a SWA/Hawaiian combinatioin is in the cards in any form. But, I am curious how you think Hawaiian is different than Aloha? When GO! entered the market I heard all the same arguments.

Hawaiians will never let GO! survive. There will be massive boycotts. Locals love Aloha and will do anything to keep them afloat. Government officials will lobby so hard against this it has no chance of succeeding.

In the end none of this proposed outrage made any difference. Either it didn't happen at all or it simply wasn't effective because Aloha is long gone. I don't live there, and am not that familiar with the region, but please explain why Hawaiian is so drastically different and would fare better if it was threatened by an outsider.

 

[General Lee]

That didn't go all that well for the Northwest pilots. Many of the guys I talked to were not all that happy about losing a couple years of seniority. Of course the Delto guys treat it like it was the best SLI ever, and think we screwed over the AAI guys. At least the Deltos got stock.

Zero AT pilots kept their Capt seats, right? Zero? To switch over to SWA, they had to go to the right seat, even though they brought some 737s to the merger? Is that right? Does that sound even remotely fair? An arbitrator would never have allowed that. And NWA had more DC9s and 747-200F's going away, and DL had more 757s, hence 2 more years of seniority. A panel of 3 arbitrators thought that was fair, but you don't?

And the DL pilots did get stock, mostly around 3200 to 3800 shares, at about $5 a share back then. Today it was over $16 a share, and I still have my 3600 shares. Not bad....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Dan Roman]

Let me just start by saying that I also don't think a SWA/Hawaiian combinatioin is in the cards in any form. But, I am curious how you think Hawaiian is different than Aloha? When GO! entered the market I heard all the same arguments.

Hawaiians will never let GO! survive. There will be massive boycotts. Locals love Aloha and will do anything to keep them afloat. Government officials will lobby so hard against this it has no chance of succeeding.

In the end none of this proposed outrage made any difference. Either it didn't happen at all or it simply wasn't effective because Aloha is long gone. I don't live there, and am not that familiar with the region, but please explain why Hawaiian is so drastically different and would fare better if it was threatened by an outsider.

Aloha failed because of very deep financial reasons. No amount of public sentiment could overcome that. Too be clear, I never said the State would put up money to prevent a merger. When Aloha failed, there was still a local airline to serve Hawaii. That's the difference.
Go has been a massive failure, very low ridership and in fact, Hawaiian turns away passengers during the peak middle of the day period that Go picks up. They basically carry what Hawaiian can't and have barely survived as basically a skeleton inter-island carrier. In addition, AQ is in no way comparable to what Hawaiian has established itself in Hawaii now. HA is a much bigger factor in the States economy today and much more integral to it's future.

 

[canyonblue]

Zero AT pilots kept their Capt seats, right? Zero? To switch over to SWA, they had to go to the right seat, even though they brought some 737s to the merger? Is that right? Does that sound even remotely fair?


Bye Bye---General Lee

Their first offer allowed them to keep ALL of their Capt seats, but they didn't seem to like it. So they rolled again and came up craps. What was that stupid Kenny Rogers song again?

Oh yeah, they brought some 737's, about equal to 8% of our fleet. So if NWA brought at least 8% of the 757's your saying that they should have been given DOH? I think you should consider a new SLI for them.

 

[General Lee]

Their first offer allowed them to keep ALL of their Capt seats, but they didn't seem to like it. So they rolled again and came up craps. What was that stupid Kenny Rogers song again?

Oh yeah, they brought some 737's, about equal to 8% of our fleet. So if NWA brought at least 8% of the 757's your saying that they should have been given DOH? I think you should consider a new SLI for them.

Three neutrals thought it was fair for our SLI, and they determined the list, agreed upon prior by both sides, no "take this or leave it offers." Your CEO and your pilot group thought your's was fair, hence the problem and lack of "LUV" with your merger. A successful merger and SLI has management not taking sides, and staying out of it. There will always be a few, like the guys you spoke with, that thought they got F'd in the merger. All you have to do is tell then to read the award written by the 3 arbitrators, they give their reasons.


Bye Bye---General Lee