78 year old captain flying Jenni Rivera's plane

[cldsfr79]

I know this has more to do with Charter than Fractional, but it involves an elderly pilot. We all know just like charter, the fracs have no age limit and many "retired" pilots keep flying. Their rigorous FAA medical is their testimony to fitness. (This was a Mexican pilot following Mexican law, but we do have US pilots this age still flying professionally).

In the article, the captain was shown to be 78 years old and a company executive believes he may have had a heart attack. The FO was called a "green" pilot, who may not have known what to do once the captain was incapacitated.

This is just speculation and there has not been on autopsy yet.

I'm sure it was a catastrophic mechanical failure since the plane was over 40 years old. In no way could this accident be pinned on the old pilot. I'm sure he was as sharp as he was when he was 50 and in perfect health. He wouldn't have let himself fly if he had ailments.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/12/12/jenni-rivera-wanted-to-buy-plane-died-in/

 

[JokerFuel]

This doesn't belong in the "Fractional" section.

 

[JokerFuel]

Oh...and honestly! Who better to fly a forty plus year old aircraft, than a pilot who is intimately familiar with it? Honestly....when was the last time any of us drove round gages? Just unlucky.

 

[Pervis]

Such speculation about a tragic event before those folks are even buried is less than professional. There's one thing older pilots have over younger ones, besides experience. It's called class.

 

[pilotyip]

I flew with a 78 year old FE on the Electra. He was a sharp guy and really knew that airplane. Much more knowledgeable than his far younger counterparts.

 

[Traderd]

Some day a pilot-less aircraft will crash with fatalities. People will be upset about the age of the microprocessor managing the AI software.

"The damn thing was more than 24 months old!" lawyers for the plaintiffs will claim. "It has been obsolete for more than six months, but the bastards running this airline left it in place to save a few bucks!" The Microprocessor Builders Union will be decrying the the Age 24 Month Rule and demand processors be replaced every twelve months.

The FAA will form a committee.

 

[SENECAII]

Oh...and honestly! Who better to fly a forty plus year old aircraft, than a pilot who is intimately familiar with it? Honestly....when was the last time any of us drove round gages? Just unlucky.

Then it would just be a matter of what fails first the pilot or the aircraft.That should make the passengers feel safe.

 

[jonjuan]

I flew with a 78 year old FE on the Electra. He was a sharp guy and really knew that airplane. Much more knowledgeable than his far younger counterparts.

....when he was awake, that is....

 

[SENECAII]

I flew with a 78 year old FE on the Electra. He was a sharp guy and really knew that airplane. Much more knowledgeable than his far younger counterparts.

doesnt help much when you die of a heart attack or stroke out.

 

[hammer2]

This doesn't belong in the "Fractional" section.

Sure it does...it's a sad reminder of what you get when you pay less.

 

[OHGOON]

Such speculation about a tragic event before those folks are even buried is less than professional. There's one thing older pilots have over younger ones, besides experience. It's called class.

Second that!

 

[IBNAV8R]

Some day a pilot-less aircraft will crash with fatalities. People will be upset about the age of the microprocessor managing the AI software.

"The damn thing was more than 24 months old!" lawyers for the plaintiffs will claim. "It has been obsolete for more than six months, but the bastards running this airline left it in place to save a few bucks!" The Microprocessor Builders Union will be decrying the the Age 24 Month Rule and demand processors be replaced every twelve months.

The FAA will form a committee.

If only those greedy so-and-sos had upgraded to iPilot7.

 

[pilotyip]

doesnt help much when you die of a heart attack or stroke out.

If we really want to do this retirement age correctly in the name of safety, we take the age of pilot that experiences an in-flight incapacitation, say a heart attack at age 47, and that becomes the new retirement age.

 

[X-rated]

cldsfr79,

What an incredibly irresponsible, unprofessional and stupid post. You have no idea why that plane crashed, but you need to take a shot at older pilots because that fits your agenda. An indicted drug smuggler who was also convicted of 6 counts of fraud for falsifying airplane logbooks says it couldn't have possibly been a maintenance issue because the 40+ year old airplane had a Top to bottom inspection this past summer, and you buy that? First, it's December, and "News Flash", airplanes have maintenance issues coming out of even the best maintenance facilities. Who really believes this ahem "executive" spared no expense getting a $250,000 Lear 25 ready for sale? I have no idea what happened, but excuse me if I'm not quite ready to make up my mind about what happened just yet.

RIP

 

[OHGOON]

cldsfr79,

What an incredibly irresponsible, unprofessional and stupid post. You have no idea why that plane crashed, but you need to take a shot at older pilots because that fits your agenda. An indicted drug smuggler who was also convicted of 6 counts of fraud for falsifying airplane logbooks says it couldn't have possibly been a maintenance issue because the 40+ year old airplane had a Top to bottom inspection this past summer, and you buy that? First, it's December, and "News Flash", airplanes have maintenance issues coming out of even the best maintenance facilities. Who really believes this ahem "executive" spared no expense getting a $250,000 Lear 25 ready for sale? I have no idea what happened, but excuse me if I'm not quite ready to make up my mind about what happened just yet.

RIP

Wow, easy there cowboy.

Totally agree, but you're gonna give yourself a coronary if you keep this up and then Yip will want to set the retirement age to yours...LOL

 

[pilotyip]

....when he was awake, that is....

Hey in night freight if you don't rest you can be in big trouble.

Reminds me of my first trip after IOE, 1978 TransAmerican L-188 F/O coming out of the Emery sort at KDAY at 0200. We level off and the CA looks at me and says, "Why don't you kick back and get some rest” I answered "Oh no sir, my job to be fully alert to the safety of flight at all times" (or something stupid like that). He looks at his feet and shakes his head and says "I hate you new guys, you know I am gunna catch some rest on the next leg, and I won't rest well if I think you might not be alert" "If I am not rested I am a grumpy son-of -a-bitch, and you don't want to be around me when I am grumpy" "Now about you get some rest” I pretended to rest, I was too excited about being an airline pilot. That did not last long, the not resting part, I loved being an airline pilot. There is no way anyone who lives on their days off on a 7AM to 11PM wake cycle with their family, can now pick up three night of 11PM to 7AM flying and not be exhausted.

The real danger is mirco napping and missing the critical call while on the approach, as opposed to controlled napping at cruise. In the late 80's the NTSB did a study of sleep in the cockpit, looking at instances of “Micro Napping”. This where you have no control over falling asleep and blacking out due to being fatigued. What they found was at int'l carriers where controlled napping was allowed in cruise, there were no instances of Micro napping from start of descent to the gate. On US Air carriers there was 147 cases of Micro Napping from the start of descent to the gate. Including 4 cases of micro napping where both pilots dropped off at the same time. The danger is not missing the call because of controlled napping, but missing the call because of uncontrolled napping. BTW the FAA rejected the NTSB recommendation of setting napping policy, because it was un-American to sleep on the job.

 

[imacdog]

I think we all know who ends up taking more unplanned naps in the cockpit.

 

[CALRepublic]

I flew with a 78 year old FE on the Electra. He was a sharp guy and really knew that airplane. Much more knowledgeable than his far younger counterparts.

I've flown with a few seventy-something's, a couple of stories

- taxiing to the runway, they told us to hold short of the runway for landing traffic, he kept on going, he wasn't going to stop. I jumped on the brakes, the passengers coffee went flying. He said "he couldn't see the hold-short line".

-a few months a later ( different guy) we busted altitude out of Santa Monica. This guy likes to hand fly, he won't engage the A/P below 15000ft. we filled an ASAP report, my first ASAP in 7 years. We had a chat in the FBO

By the way, these two guys are not in their 70s, they're in their late 60s

 

[Mud Eagle]

-a few months a later ( different guy) we busted altitude out of Santa Monica. This guy likes to hand fly, he won't engage the A/P below 15000ft. we filled an ASAP report, my first ASAP in 7 years. We had a chat in the FBO

What does this have to do with age? I have seen pilots at all ages, with all levels of experience and rating, bust ATC-assigned altitudes.

 

[pilotyip]

I've flown with a few seventy-something's, a couple of stories

- taxiing to the runway, they told us to hold short of the runway for landing traffic, he kept on going, he wasn't going to stop. I jumped on the brakes, the passengers coffee went flying. He said "he couldn't see the hold-short line".

-a few months a later ( different guy) we busted altitude out of Santa Monica. This guy likes to hand fly, he won't engage the A/P below 15000ft. we filled an ASAP report, my first ASAP in 7 years. We had a chat in the FBO

By the way, these two guys are not in their 70s, they're in their late 60s

and just never happens to anyone under the age of 50 right? Like engaging the autopilot on a CRJ in the VS mode, resulting in a dual flame out.

I think we all know who ends up taking more unplanned naps in the cockpit.

Sure we do, the NTSB proved it, those taking uncontrolled naps are the one who do not take controlled naps.