Delta Air Lines Orders Up to 70 Bombardier CRJ900 NextGen Jetliners

[pilotkppsg]

It's concessions and a joint contract, or PLAN B. PLAN B = You become the incredible shrinking airline. Just look at the lease retirement schedule starting early next year.

A new CPA can be negotiated, and there will be no replacement airplanes. Then what?

Why must we vote in concessions in a contract merger again? I'm having a really hard time understanding why I must accept less money when the company keeps touting "cost benefit savings through combined synergies." All this while blowing cash on "Surejet" name selection, mini indy, aceypalooza, Acey days, aerodata transition for us, paying 200% almost 7 entire months last year, running higher line divisors increasing sick call usage, the list goes on.

Please help me fathom this concept. I'm an ignorant L-Xjt pilot who needs to be "cost competitive and get on board."

 

[www.]

No. Is yours willing to quit being whiny bitches?

Is that the best you can do? Grow up and learn how to play with the big boys.

 

[777forever]

The way I understand it is that nobody will be taking any concessions with the JCBA. Unless L-XJT considers PBS a concession. Anyways, the final system hasn't been decided yet, and lots of rumors about which one the company favors and who's side they are on.



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[centralpilot]

Anyways, the final system hasn't been decided yet, and lots of rumors about which one the company favors and who's side they are on.

It is a crying shame that some are worried about whose side the company is on. There should only be 2 sides: pilots vs. management.

 

[JustaNumber]

Why must we vote in concessions in a contract merger again? I'm having a really hard time understanding why I must accept less money when the company keeps touting "cost benefit savings through combined synergies." All this while blowing cash on "Surejet" name selection, mini indy, aceypalooza, Acey days, aerodata transition for us, paying 200% almost 7 entire months last year, running higher line divisors increasing sick call usage, the list goes on.

Please help me fathom this concept. I'm an ignorant L-Xjt pilot who needs to be "cost competitive and get on board."

The aerodata transition is a huge revenue enhancer, as it allows much quicker calculations (and recalculations when they inevitably add three more bags right at departure time), increasing the odds of making D-0 and A-14, which means more money from DL/UA.

The 200% last year was because at the time they were not expecting the additional Comair or Pinnacle flying, and they were expecting the airline to downsize. It is more cost-effective to pay overtime than to hire, train, and then furlough guys for just a few months.

The employee appreciation events are designed to increase morale and productivity. (Whether they were implemented persuasively enough may be debateable, but the concept has been proven successful in general).

Management isn't perfect (Surejet? seriously?), but I do think they are trying to run the best airline they can. We're not being run by some masochistic Ornstein type that intentionally abuses employees as part of the business model. If the company was returning 25% profit margins, then we could argue for our fair share, but when we're just struggling to remain profitable at all, and keep from becoming the next failed regional to wither and die, we do have to start accepting reality.

If we were facing draconian concessions (like the Pinnacle guys), then holding firm with dignity would be warranted. But being asked to accept the wrong brand of PBS vendors (for the XJT guys), or something like losing vacation low (for the ASA guys), and you're ready to burn the place down? I'm just saying we all need to put the reality of the industry into perspective.

 

[JustaNumber]

It is a crying shame that some are worried about whose side the company is on. There should only be 2 sides: pilots vs. management.

If you want to talk about the ideal situation, it should be the pilots and management jointly working together vs. our competition. That's who the real "enemy" is. Or you could possibly make the case that Delta is our real adversary.

Being able to say "we sure showed you" to management as the company goes out of business is kind of silly. Unfortunately, regional airline survival is a very real concern in today's age of bankruptcy court abuse.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

If you want to talk about the ideal situation, it should be the pilots and management jointly working together vs. our competition. That's who the real "enemy" is. Or you could possibly make the case that Delta is our real adversary.

Being able to say "we sure showed you" to management as the company goes out of business is kind of silly. Unfortunately, regional airline survival is a very real concern in today's age of bankruptcy court abuse.

Well said.

 

[777forever]

If you want to talk about the ideal situation, it should be the pilots and management jointly working together vs. our competition. That's who the real "enemy" is. Or you could possibly make the case that Delta is our real adversary.

Being able to say "we sure showed you" to management as the company goes out of business is kind of silly. Unfortunately, regional airline survival is a very real concern in today's age of bankruptcy court abuse.

Very well said. One of the best posts of 2012. Bravo!

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[centralpilot]

If you want to talk about the ideal situation, it should be the pilots and management jointly working together vs. our competition. That's who the real "enemy" is.

Agreed. I would love it if we could get to a place where our pilots (unified) are working with management to make this a successful company with less poisonous morale. Unfortunately I think the company's idea of working together is chasing after the continuously lowering bar in this segment of the industry. With each regional liquidation or BK concession our position gets worse. The longer we bicker among ourselves the more we play into their hands. We need to resolve our disagreements internally & quickly.

 

[wms]

The mgmt is not just trying to run a good airline. The company does have an agenda of "control for control's sake", re; occurrences, alternate deadhead, no release after a trip, etc, and we should expect them to give that up. You can't run an effective company of 4000 pilots micromanaging their lives. The upper mgmt knows exactly what dirty tricks the occ plays and endorses it by their lack of action.

Also, mgmt wants smartpref. If you've been here more than a week you know mgmt never wants what's good for the front line employees, and if they do want it that should be a automatic no vote.

Mgmt wants to get rid of prefbid, the only real improvement ever to our qol at this company. That's an automatic yes vote.

 

[777forever]

Agreed. I would love it if we could get to a place where our pilots (unified) are working with management to make this a successful company with less poisonous morale. Unfortunately I think the company's idea of working together is chasing after the continuously lowering bar in this segment of the industry. With each regional liquidation or BK concession our position gets worse. The longer we bicker among ourselves the more we play into their hands. We need to resolve our disagreements internally & quickly.

You make good points, however I don't believe a few pilots bickering on forums about rumors means our two MECs are bickering. They may or may not be, but nobody truly knows what's going on.

Also, I believe the company isn't continuously lowering the bar, they are going for high quality product at a reasonable price, unlike GoJet which goes for bare minimum quality at bare bones price. I have a close friend at GoJet and he states while the upgrade is quick, it's a dirt cheap scumbag company where you have to watch your back every leg.

I firmly believe in Skywest Inc's business plan of high quality product at reasonable costs.

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[HA25]

Agreed. I would love it if we could get to a place where our pilots (unified) are working with management to make this a successful company with less poisonous morale. Unfortunately I think the company's idea of working together is chasing after the continuously lowering bar in this segment of the industry. With each regional liquidation or BK concession our position gets worse. The longer we bicker among ourselves the more we play into their hands. We need to resolve our disagreements internally & quickly.

smartest post in the entire thread. Put aside the petty stuff and come together, or lose.

 

[sinkrate]

Honest question for the ASA and XJET guys.....What happens if a JCBA can not be reached or if it fails ratification?

 

[ASApuppy]

Some rumors I heard is that Uncle Jerry could overbid the ERJ operation and win a replacement bid with CRJ operations. There are a ton coming on the market from the Delta operators. Plus, with CRJ-200 being a training platform for the 700/900, that makes them more valuable than the ERJ's. Even if we do work out our differences, I see most ERJ's headed the desert or overseas before the CRJ's for that reason alone. If UAL does allow larger planes and with Skywest Inc. having purchased first rights, What 70/76 seater makes since to you? We have no established training or maintience program for an EMB-175. We could start a CRJ-700/900 program next week.

I don't know how we got to such a hatred level between our two groups. There are certainly some aspects of your guys contract I like. Some with ours. I do know that the negotiating committee has marching orders to terminate your B-fund and find a way to buy you guys off. A cash payout to L-xjt pilots and not to L-asa pilots will certainly encourage 1700 no votes on our side. So, how then to make the joint contract good enough for 50.1%?

Personally, I think we should be positioning ourselves to make it palatable for a merge with Skywest. The era of divide and conquer needs to die. We need to all be on the same team and work together to beat our real competition, other Regionals.

 

[HA25]

so how are two ALPA carriers going to merge with one militantly non-ALPA carrier who bought them? Not being a prick, just genuinely curious how that's going to play out, as it should.