Delta Air Lines Orders Up to 70 Bombardier CRJ900 NextGen Jetliners

[profit]

You of all people should remember that the Dc-9-10 sat 78 people and rj's are held to 76.

Despite how sad that is, the sarcasm cracked me up!

 

[jetflier]

You're right Red, people do need to RE-READ my posts. They are correct. Delta did know about the re-engining of the CRJ-200s, but there were also leases that had to remain through 2015 for over 300 of those things. Over 300. So, they probably would have had to keep them, and if they had to re-engine them, they may have wanted to keep them LONGER, which mainline pilots would NOT want. The time to get rid of them is NOW, not wait longer for something else to happen and keep them around for longer. Also, not getting rid of the RJs would have meant NOT getting the 717s, because getting rid of 200 plus 50 seaters NOW meant allowing 70 and 76 seaters to take over 50 seater routes, and then 717s to take over 76 seat routes. It was perfect, crafted mainly by a SWA guy doing "interesting" negotiating for SWA, and then supposedly was "talked to" by their big wigs. Thanks for the GREAT DEAL!

Overall, the DL contract wasn't perfect, but it did achieve many things in our favor. Better pay for a short duration contract, got rid of tons of 50 seaters and total RJs overall, and got 717s, which would NOT have come if all of the RJs stuck around. (too much capacity) Thanks SWA, for giving away the farm and paying for it too! Those 717s will RECAPTURE routes that were given away a decade ago, and they will pay well too! Merry Xmas!


Bye Bye---General Lee

"Also, not getting rid of the RJs would have meant NOT getting the 717s, because getting rid of 200 plus 50 seaters NOW meant allowing 70 and 76 seaters to take over 50 seater routes, and then 717s to take over 76 seat routes." HUH?

GL YGBFKM ! Do you believe that Boeing and Garry Kelley patiently waited on the edge of their seats for DALPA to pass a Pilot Working Agreement before they inked a deal on the 717?

I am disappointed in you, you are way smarter than that!

 

[SLUF4]

"Also, not getting rid of the RJs would have meant NOT getting the 717s, because getting rid of 200 plus 50 seaters NOW meant allowing 70 and 76 seaters to take over 50 seater routes, and then 717s to take over 76 seat routes." HUH?

GL YGBFKM ! Do you believe that Boeing and Garry Kelley patiently waited on the edge of their seats for DALPA to pass a Pilot Working Agreement before they inked a deal on the 717?

I am disappointed in you, you are way smarter than that!

I agree with you-we're getting paid a lot of money to take these things supposedly. You think they'd squander that opportunity because we turn down a TA?? I can't believe how many short sighted people work here.

 

[Ops check good]

Skywest will never merge with ASA or XJT.

+10, you get it :beer:

 

[mesaba13]

Good source says we sign a TA and get 900's.

 

[redflyer65]

"Also, not getting rid of the RJs would have meant NOT getting the 717s, because getting rid of 200 plus 50 seaters NOW meant allowing 70 and 76 seaters to take over 50 seater routes, and then 717s to take over 76 seat routes." HUH?

GL YGBFKM ! Do you believe that Boeing and Garry Kelley patiently waited on the edge of their seats for DALPA to pass a Pilot Working Agreement before they inked a deal on the 717?

I am disappointed in you, you are way smarter than that!

After years of evidence (over 16 thousand post), I'm not sure he is!

 

[CRJ puppy]

Good source says we sign a TA and get 900's.

Early 2005, they said if we took a pay freeze we would be the primary operator of EMB 170's in the Delta system. Even parked a 170 on the ramp for 3-4 days so we could walk through it and see it. We took the pay freeze. EMB's went to Shuttle America.

Later in Bankruptcy, they said we needed to take further cuts to remain competitive. We refused. Company filed 1113(c) motion. Eventually we agreed on a concessionary contract that included a fleet guarantee and a percentage guarantee of all new DCI deliveries. While the aircraft remained in the fleet, many were parked for extended periods, many were lent to other DCI carriers, but hey, they were still in our fleet, even if our pilots weren't flying them. We never saw another aircraft delivery.

2010. Told we needed to shrink to lower out costs. Shrink to 44 aircraft in 1.5 yrs. No new aircraft.

2012. In spite of union offering a low ball concessionary contract to keep the company afloat and meet cost savings targets outlined by company as necessary, we were told that our costs were unsustainable and were shut down in 62 days.

That gentlemen was Comair. Anyone who truly believes that if you come to a concessionary agreement and suddenly new aircraft will appear is a fool. A fool who hasn't learned from past mistakes and is well on their way to repeating them.

Please learn.

(All your concessionary agreement will do is to set the future bar lower for other carriers. Your fate has already been determined.)

Good Luck.

 

[www.]

Good source says we sign a TA and get 900's.

Ok. You currently have approx 140 cr2 along with 41 cr9 after the 16 are pulled. DAL deal is up to 70 cr9. You currently have approx 2741 pilots w/ 29 on furlough.

Staffing is approx 5.5 crew per a/c when you include IPs. So cr2 would be 1540 pilots and on the cr9 would be 451 for a total of 1991 required to fly the current fleet.

DAL wants the cr2s gone. I would say that the new cr9 deal is structured to trade all 140 cr2 back to BA. IF that were to take place you would have a fleet, best case, of 111 cr9 which would mean a need for 1222 pilots approx. A loss of approx 1519 pilots.

No flame just IMO, if you says yes to the TA and DAL make sure your MEC gets the 70 900s in writing. If not look and see what happened to CMR.

 

[RJLoser]

Very few pinnacle pilots understand this.

 

[trip]

Early 2005, they said if we took a pay freeze we would be the primary operator of EMB 170's in the Delta system. Even parked a 170 on the ramp for 3-4 days so we could walk through it and see it. We took the pay freeze. EMB's went to Shuttle America.

Later in Bankruptcy, they said we needed to take further cuts to remain competitive. We refused. Company filed 1113(c) motion. Eventually we agreed on a concessionary contract that included a fleet guarantee and a percentage guarantee of all new DCI deliveries. While the aircraft remained in the fleet, many were parked for extended periods, many were lent to other DCI carriers, but hey, they were still in our fleet, even if our pilots weren't flying them. We never saw another aircraft delivery.

2010. Told we needed to shrink to lower out costs. Shrink to 44 aircraft in 1.5 yrs. No new aircraft.

2012. In spite of union offering a low ball concessionary contract to keep the company afloat and meet cost savings targets outlined by company as necessary, we were told that our costs were unsustainable and were shut down in 62 days.

That gentlemen was Comair. Anyone who truly believes that if you come to a concessionary agreement and suddenly new aircraft will appear is a fool. A fool who hasn't learned from past mistakes and is well on their way to repeating them.

Please learn.

(All your concessionary agreement will do is to set the future bar lower for other carriers. Your fate has already been determined.)

Good Luck.

Well stated, know who your dealing with.

 

[BentOver]

Early 2005, they said if we took a pay freeze we would be the primary operator of EMB 170's in the Delta system. Even parked a 170 on the ramp for 3-4 days so we could walk through it and see it. We took the pay freeze. EMB's went to Shuttle America.

Later in Bankruptcy, they said we needed to take further cuts to remain competitive. We refused. Company filed 1113(c) motion. Eventually we agreed on a concessionary contract that included a fleet guarantee and a percentage guarantee of all new DCI deliveries. While the aircraft remained in the fleet, many were parked for extended periods, many were lent to other DCI carriers, but hey, they were still in our fleet, even if our pilots weren't flying them. We never saw another aircraft delivery.

2010. Told we needed to shrink to lower out costs. Shrink to 44 aircraft in 1.5 yrs. No new aircraft.

2012. In spite of union offering a low ball concessionary contract to keep the company afloat and meet cost savings targets outlined by company as necessary, we were told that our costs were unsustainable and were shut down in 62 days.

That gentlemen was Comair. Anyone who truly believes that if you come to a concessionary agreement and suddenly new aircraft will appear is a fool. A fool who hasn't learned from past mistakes and is well on their way to repeating them.

Please learn.

(All your concessionary agreement will do is to set the future bar lower for other carriers. Your fate has already been determined.)

Good Luck.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is NOT AN EXAGGERATION!!!! It is exactly how it went down... I was there for the pay freeze, bankruptcy BS... (Luckily I had moved on well before fleet reductions/furloughs etc)

I cannot stress enough that the way CRJ Puppy describes it is 100% accurate... Including the parking of an E170 on the ramp very close to the trailors(operations).... I refused to "tour" the thing, and living in Florence it would have been very easy to stop by for a look.

Learn from the past and the way managements work... Pinnacle is going through nearly an identical gameplan that Comair endured.

Delta's plan has been decided and enacted upon well before this current vote. The plan that Delta has decided on will not be decided by a pilot vote. Especially the vote of one of it's many regional affiliates.

 

[goahead]

Early 2005, they said if we took a pay freeze we would be the primary operator of EMB 170's in the Delta system. Even parked a 170 on the ramp for 3-4 days so we could walk through it and see it. We took the pay freeze. EMB's went to Shuttle America.

Later in Bankruptcy, they said we needed to take further cuts to remain competitive. We refused. Company filed 1113(c) motion. Eventually we agreed on a concessionary contract that included a fleet guarantee and a percentage guarantee of all new DCI deliveries. While the aircraft remained in the fleet, many were parked for extended periods, many were lent to other DCI carriers, but hey, they were still in our fleet, even if our pilots weren't flying them. We never saw another aircraft delivery.

2010. Told we needed to shrink to lower out costs. Shrink to 44 aircraft in 1.5 yrs. No new aircraft.

2012. In spite of union offering a low ball concessionary contract to keep the company afloat and meet cost savings targets outlined by company as necessary, we were told that our costs were unsustainable and were shut down in 62 days.

That gentlemen was Comair. Anyone who truly believes that if you come to a concessionary agreement and suddenly new aircraft will appear is a fool. A fool who hasn't learned from past mistakes and is well on their way to repeating them.

Please learn.

(All your concessionary agreement will do is to set the future bar lower for other carriers. Your fate has already been determined.)

Good Luck.

Great post and sorry for what happened to you guys unbelivable, hope others learn this

 

[General Lee]

I want to get hired at Delta just to figure out who Jenny Lee is, bid a trip with him, even if it means switching bases and equipment, and pull out and RJ model and place it on the dash on day 1. Then say SkyWest instead of Delta on the radio.

You probably won't get the chance. But if you do, that SkyWest RJ model will be a classic, maybe worth a lot of money, since there will be so few RJs left by then. As far as who I am, I'm easy to see in the terminal. I'm the tall guy (6'5) that weighs about 140lbs. I look like Learch.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[higney85]

You probably won't get the chance. But if you do, that SkyWest RJ model will be a classic, maybe worth a lot of money, since there will be so few RJs left by then. As far as who I am, I'm easy to see in the terminal. I'm the tall guy (6'5) that weighs about 140lbs. I look like Learch.



Bye Bye---General Lee

You must really look like a rail. 140 sounds darn near hard to find pants and shirts that fit without extensive tailoring. It may sound wrong to say that, but I have my own issues at 6'2/230 and shirts being tents at the waist.

 

[General Lee]

"Also, not getting rid of the RJs would have meant NOT getting the 717s, because getting rid of 200 plus 50 seaters NOW meant allowing 70 and 76 seaters to take over 50 seater routes, and then 717s to take over 76 seat routes." HUH?

GL YGBFKM ! Do you believe that Boeing and Garry Kelley patiently waited on the edge of their seats for DALPA to pass a Pilot Working Agreement before they inked a deal on the 717?

I am disappointed in you, you are way smarter than that!

What you don't see is that DL had a good plan either way. Nobody else was interested in the 717, and SWA wanted to get back to a single fleet type. Those RJs had leases that weren't going to expire until 2015, for over 300 50 seaters, many with upcoming mx work needed. They couldn't break the leases unless they maybe got a deal with the manufacturer. But, the 300 RJs staying until 2015 would have created too many extra seats to add the 88 717s. I think DL would have let SWA choke on the 717s, or take them if they got the deal. I think it turned out to be a good deal for us, and SWA is probably happy to get rid of them, even though they have to pay big bucks to fix them up for DL. DL was going to win either way, by getting cheap planes or allowing SWA to continue to fly with an extra fleet they didn't want.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[big shacks]

Most XJ pilots don't need to be reminded of how the bankruptcy/possible liquidation process goes down. If we follow the same road as Comair... So be it.. But this isn't our first rodeo either.

 

[RJLoser]

Good source says we sign a TA and get 900's.

One born every minute.

 

[Flyer1015]

One born every minute.

What was that US Airway's MidAtlantic Airways slogan. "Jets for Jobs" Or is it now "Concessions for Jets"

 

[urflyingme?!]

You probably won't get the chance. But if you do, that SkyWest RJ model will be a classic, maybe worth a lot of money, since there will be so few RJs left by then. As far as who I am, I'm easy to see in the terminal. I'm the tall guy (6'5) that weighs about 140lbs. I look like Learch.



Bye Bye---General Lee

How the F do you know if I have a chance? LOL!

For all you know I could be an F-22 Wing Commander with 10,000 hours and a PHD in Human Factors.

 

[HA25]

You probably won't get the chance. But if you do, that SkyWest RJ model will be a classic, maybe worth a lot of money, since there will be so few RJs left by then. As far as who I am, I'm easy to see in the terminal. I'm the tall guy (6'5) that weighs about 140lbs. I look like Learch.



Bye Bye---General Lee

we actually had a guy at Evergreen who really did look like Learch... it was his nickname.

Are you really 6'5 and 140? That's highly malnourished..