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Delta eyes Virgin Atlantic swoop

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General Lee said:
Way too dramatic Bill. First off, we are modifying our current widebodies with new lie flat seats plus AVOD for planes that don't have them. Have you been on one of our 767ERs with the new seats plus crew bunks? They are REAL nice. The product is being upgraded, and that is good for you and me. How many other US Majors are getting new widebodies? All I see is CAL (now UAL) getting some 787s they ordered a long time ago, and AA getting a few 777-300s (maybe 2 or 3 total). That's it. Our industry is still trying to recover from the BK days. We need to keep fares and fees high to order those widebodies. You know the drill, get debt below a certain number ($10B), save money on interest, and then order away. The current used planes we are getting are cheap, but new 777-300ERs won't be. Unless you pay cash for them on the spot, you have time to make even more money and then pay it off as they come from the factory.

I am actually glad the airline is taking time during this downturn to do mods on all of our current widebodies, not park them for good, and at the same time retake domestic routes we gave up long ago to DCI. Those 717s will take back current 76 seat flying, and that also is good for you and me. I don't think it is Stockholm Syndrome, I think it is me being glad we have management that will take chances to make OUR airline stronger and think outside the box. (Refinery, 717s, possible VA tie up). All of those things show our guys are creating the plays, not just watching from the sidelines. I still think those 773s will be ordered, but in the meantime they are cleaning up the used ones and creating a better product. There is no doubt that is happening.

So, if you want to jump ship and see LBB with the Corndogs, then do it in a few years. The only reason our current INTL flying is down is because the EU problems, and the widebody mods are happening. No permanent parking of widebodies, and eventual larger growth as planes come back and the economy gets better. Your claims of major outsourcing are a stretch too. Most new AK routes are ones we never did, and AF/KL have had to give us routes (SEA and ORD) to stay in compliance with the JV. Next Summer we add EWR-CDG permanently, and add back a lot of Summer flying (CDG-BOS, PIT, PHL, etc). If you want to keep some of those year round, you have to fill them up. This Winter it's been tough to Europe.

I doubt you and I will ever go to LBB, unless you get hired on the bottom over there. If you do, you can PM me from Midland. I'll be off on a Moon 3 day...and not all 757s are leaving. The ex TWA birds are fairly new, and all 757-300s, plus 757-200s with winglets are staying for a long while. Those new 739s will replace the older FNWA 757s (5500 block) plus older A320s, and some older 767-300 DOM planes. You knew that, right? Btw, I flew the 738 for a short stint before 9-11, and I still have the notes if I go back to it in the left seat this time. No need for the Corndog's help. Thanks anyway.



Bye Bye---General Lee
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Jesus H man, with 17,000 posts and missives like this, do you really have any time for your wife and kids? I mean, holy h ell.
 
I mean,sh1t, general, you must be on here 22 hours a day. 17,000. Really?
 
jonjuan said:
Jesus H man, with 17,000 posts and missives like this, do you really have any time for your wife and kids? I mean, holy h ell.
Click to expand...

Here he goes again. Jonny, from his cell, tries to slam me with the number of posts, nothing on the actual content. Why? Because he can't debate facts. If he thinks something is incorrect, he should point it out, so I could easily point out how much of an idiot he is. He can't do it, his cell mate wants to snuggle.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
General Lee said:
Emirates is not a major threat yet to US carriers unless they have passengers who are connecting to India or Pakistan.
Click to expand...

There was a time when Hyundai wasn't a major threat either. Have you driven a Genesis?
 
Since, unlike the GOL, Aeromexico and Virgin Australia deals, DL will not be gaining local feed to it's international flights from it's new partner (Virgin Atlantic does not have a domestic feed into LHR,) I fail to see how this can result in an increase in LHR flying for Delta pilots.

More likely we will be feeding Virgin flights. We'll know more when the MEC issues a statement.
 
Here you go....

GogglesPisano said:
Since, unlike the GOL, Aeromexico and Virgin Australia deals, DL will not be gaining local feed to it's international flights from it's new partner (Virgin Atlantic does not have a domestic feed into LHR,) I fail to see how this can result in an increase in LHR flying for Delta pilots.

More likely we will be feeding Virgin flights. We'll know more when the MEC issues a statement.
Click to expand...


http://www.thirtythousand.us/2012/08/21/virgin-atlantic-to-begin-domestic-uk-flights/#.UL9s1hh8amt
 
GogglesPisano said:
Since, unlike the GOL, Aeromexico and Virgin Australia deals, DL will not be gaining local feed to it's international flights from it's new partner (Virgin Atlantic does not have a domestic feed into LHR,) I fail to see how this can result in an increase in LHR flying for Delta pilots.

More likely we will be feeding Virgin flights. We'll know more when the MEC issues a statement.
Click to expand...

DL has created a whole new product with lie flat seats primarily for that LHR market, flying mostly 764's with those seats. They aren't going to abandon it and allow VA to do it, they want more slots. The VA routes from LHR are not really connectable either. If that airport demands high premium for seats, why connect people there onward, when DL flies to a lot of the same cities nonstop from JFK or ATL? There may be some weaker VA city pairs from LHR that someone like DL may want to dump in favor of new nonstops to other hubs, like SLC or SEA maybe, that would benefit certain pilot groups like DL pilots. Mainly though, if that 49% share is for sale, you don't want any richer Gulf carriers coming in and trying to use A380s in those valuable slots to our East Coast.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Why would VA give up ANY slots with whoever buys the 49%. Most likely would just lead to more DL codeshare.
 
redflyer65 said:
Why would VA give up ANY slots with whoever buys the 49%. Most likely would just lead to more DL codeshare.
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Because AF/KL wants to buy the other 51%. Maybe Branson wants out of the airline business? You never know, all speculation. They haven't been as profitable, and the EU says only EU businesses can own the majority. Well, AF/KL could do that. If AF/KL did that and DL bought the other 49%, then maybe, just maybe, DL could get a few more slots to fly there.

Also Red, that wouldn't just be a codeshare, probably a Joint Venture, which is different. In the current JV with AF/KL/AZ, DL has to fly a certain percentage, and it did increase in the last contract. That helps DL, because DL would have to fly 50% of all flying I believe, and if you add more on the other half (to AF/KL/AZ), then that would mean more flying for DL. It could be good for DL. Also, Virgin Atlantic is NOT that big of an airline. It has some big metal, but I would guess they have 20 flights a day out of LHR, and maybe 10 out of Gatwick, and a couple more out of Manchester and Glasgow to Orlando. They did just gain some narrowbody slots out of Heathrow to Glasgow, Edinburgh, etc from a court ruling over the British Airways and BMI merger, but nothing significant, maybe an extra 12 slots for A320 service going North to Scottland. I think the slots are the main goal there.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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I wouldnt be surprised to see DL/VA start an hourly JFK-LHR shuttle to compete against the planned BA/AA schedules.

This could turn into a bloodbath between Skyteam and oneworld for JFK-LHR dominance.
 
General, here is Branson's reply.

Richard's Blog
Sorry BA - we're not going anywhere

By Richard Branson -
Dec 10, 2012

Rumours have been spread in the press that I am planning to give up control of Virgin Atlantic and, according to Willie Walsh - who runs BA - that our brand will soon disappear.

This is wishful thinking and totally misguided. Will BA never learn? Let's see how much they believe this. Let them put their money where their mouth is.

The last time BA had to make a settlement to me for damages (in part for spreading not dissimilar false rumours) I split the money amongst our staff. Rather than suing them on this occasion, I will pay £1 million to their staff if Virgin Atlantic disappears within say five years. If not, BA pays our staff £1 million.

Virgin Atlantic was my baby 28 years ago when we set up with just one plane. Like all children, they never really stop being your babies and Virgin Atlantic is still much cherished. It has grown into a wonderful airline which has punched above its weight for almost three decades, giving much larger airlines a real run for their money.

We intend to carry on doing so for many years to come and, contrary to Mr Walsh's hopes, we have no plans to disappear. But since they are so confident, will BA accept our challenge?

By Richard Branson. Founder of Virgin Group


http://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/blog/sorry-ba--were-not-going-anywhere
 
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