Delta reduction

[Cobraair75drvr]

Since the jet age began(and maybe before) this industry has been a cyclical boom/bust ride. Looking back to the mid 60s through present day here is what I came up with. Feel free to prove/disprove any of my info. Most of this is from memory(which could be faulty from years of beer drinking, and from relatives who are retired pilots( again, faulty memories of age and lots of beer drinking)) So here is what I've come up with:

1. Johnson-D(takes over after Kennedy assasination) 1964-1969
Massive hiring at the majors/trunks. 3-5 year upgrades.
2. Nixon-R 1969-1974
Furloughs, stagnation or just a trickle of hiring
3. Ford-R 1974-1977
See above
4. Carter-D 1977-1981
Deregulation, hiring at most airlines.
5. Reagan/Bush-R 1981-1993
Patco, Braniff ch7, Cal ch11 and strike(which started a 25 year run of substandard pay, work and retirement overthere), Ual strike, Eal strike ch7,
brillance of the b scale at AA which eventually infected everyone by the end of the decade. To be fair, massive hiring at most legacies with fairly quick upgrades. Followed by layoffs and paycuts starting the last 2 years of Bush's term.
6. Clinton-D 1993-2001
Hiring begins slowly, contract repair starts with NWA strike/lockout of 98, followed by upward pattern bargaining elsewhere culminating in the UAL and DAL contracts of 2000-2001.
7. W-R 2001-2008
The attacks of 9/11 followed shortly thereafter by the all out assault on our careers. UsAir, Ual, Nwa, Dal(picked off one at a time)-all ch11 with a gutting of pay, pension and workrules, without so much as a peep from the politicians except the giddiness of the growth of the LCC's. AA volutarily doing it outside ch11. All the while massive outsourcing to regionals flying Much higher seat mile cost aircraft(that were very expensive, but somehow these bankrupt companies found the money for them). A glimmer of hope after coming out of Ch11 with hiring starting in 2007, followed by the out of nowhere Age 65 change which basically stopped the music once again.
8. Obama-D 2008-present
Hiring grinds to a stop at most airlines due to no retirements, merger mania begins, further reducing hiring needs(I do think this was/is needed to make a more stable industry going forward) DAL JCBA chips away at our ch11 contract, followed by our contract this summer(I voted no because I thought we could have squeezed a little more out) Hopefully UAL can improve on ours and AA-LCC (if they merge) can use that leverage. How'd I do? Feel free to pick apart as I have beer to drink and a party to go to.

And If Obama wins expect more. They are waiting to see what happens. No new hires for awhile if moron wins again.

 

[xray678]

Good grief. You're turning this into a political thread? Really?

I can't hired by Delta -- and it's all Obama's fault.:bawling:

Things are looking up here. Way up. New hires will be on the property next year. Debt is being paid down, and the 717's are net growth aircraft. Look for a widebody order next year.

Turn off the right-wing radio.

You think who wins this election will not impact jobs in this country? Not just airlines jobs, but all jobs?

Take a look a Europe, see how socialism is working. Obama is a socialist hack who is in way over his head. Economic growth will cease if Obama gets another term. He will spend us into oblivian and we will be just like Greece in a few years. It's sad that an educated, intelligent group like airline pilots cannot see this.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Take a look a Europe, see how socialism is working. Obama is a socialist hack who is in way over his head. Economic growth will cease if Obama gets another term. He will spend us into oblivian and we will be just like Greece in a few years. It's sad that an educated, intelligent group like airline pilots cannot see this.

FOX NEWS ALERT!

Fox is not news. It is entertainment, like the WWF except the chicks don't have bolt-ons and managed to pay their way through college by modeling for Victoria's Secret.

I appreciate your use of hyperbole as a literary tool, but that does not make it true. Your post just sounds like the bombastic wailing of the entire cast of The 5 (except Bennett of course).

 

[GogglesPisano]

You think who wins this election will not impact jobs in this country? Not just airlines jobs, but all jobs?

According to virtually all economists, no, actually.

Take a look a Europe, see how socialism is working. Obama is a socialist hack who is in way over his head. Economic growth will cease if Obama gets another term. He will spend us into oblivian and we will be just like Greece in a few years. It's sad that an educated, intelligent group like airline pilots cannot see this.

Some European nations, like Germany, the Netherlands, and the Scandinavians, are doing relatively well. "Socialism," as you call it, has benefited their citizens fairly well. The Danes consistently poll as the happiest people on earth, despite their high rate of taxation. One of the reasons is that they get a lot back from their taxation (health care, worker protections and strong social safety nets, for example.) High rates of unionization, a sense of community rather than "rugged individualism," and less economic disparity also play a factor. Economic mobility is now higher in Europe than it is in the US.

The Europeans are not destined for eternal poverty, as the right-wing pundits would have you believe.

 

[captain caveman]

According to virtually all economists, no, actually.



Some European nations, like Germany, the Netherlands, and the Scandinavians, are doing relatively well. "Socialism," as you call it, has benefited their citizens fairly well. The Danes consistently poll as the happiest people on earth, despite their high rate of taxation. One of the reasons is that they get a lot back from their taxation (health care, worker protections and strong social safety nets, for example.) High rates of unionization, a sense of community rather than "rugged individualism," and less economic disparity also play a factor. Economic mobility is now higher in Europe than it is in the US.

The Europeans are not destined for eternal poverty, as the right-wing pundits would have you believe.

Growing up in Canada, I became accustomed to lackluster healthcare. 36 hour waits in the ER, or waiting a year for an MRI? How about driving your family around in a Yaris because the gas is too expensive? Oh, and good luck finding a decent flying job. The safety net is just above ground level because quality of life and buying power is much lower than ours.

You're an idealist. You haven't lived in our reality. It's all a romance to you, a reaction to your emotions. Go live it and get real.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Growing up in Canada, I became accustomed to lackluster healthcare. 36 hour waits in the ER, or waiting a year for an MRI? How about driving your family around in a Yaris because the gas is too expensive? Oh, and good luck finding a decent flying job. The safety net is just above ground level because quality of life and buying power is much lower than ours.

You're an idealist. You haven't lived in our reality. It's all a romance to you, a reaction to your emotions. Go live it and get real.

Your synopsis is, respectfully, anecdotal. I've met plenty of Canadians who simply cannot understand why we've waited so long for a national healthcare system and have no substantive complaints about theirs.

The statistics speak for themselves. People in Northern Europe have better health care and are happier.

 

[JohnQ]

Your post sounds like the talking points from a graduate program at Berkeley. Have you ever considered that Northern Europeans may be "happier" due to reasons that have no relationship whatsoever to "health care" and tax policies? Who actually took the "happiness" poll? I've read numerous other studies that have concluded that sub-Saharan Africans were by far the happiest and most content persons on the planet, despite the fact that they had very few Western niceties, and certainly not "free" healthcare!

In fact, surely you agree that nothing on this planet is ever "free." Saying that the state paying for your doctor's visit somehow equates to it being "free" is like saying that we should all have a zero dollar deductible on our car insurance policy. That way if you get into an accident and file a claim, because your deductible was zero, therefore you paid "nothing" to get your car repaired (and why can't those ignorant Americans just realize that zero dollar deductibles are the only way that sophisticated people structure their insurance?) Of course such logic is ludicrous, because to get a policy with a zero dollar deductible, you would be paying much higher premiums to begin with. Further, you now have an incentive to file claims (or visit health care professionals) at the drop of a hat, because after all...it's "free!" But the difference is that a private auto insurer can drop YOU as a client if you file too many claims. Doctors working under a state mandate don't have that luxury.

But hey...it's all "free" right?

 

[cocknbull]

Growing up in Canada, I became accustomed to lackluster healthcare. 36 hour waits in the ER, or waiting a year for an MRI? How about driving your family around in a Yaris because the gas is too expensive? Oh, and good luck finding a decent flying job. The safety net is just above ground level because quality of life and buying power is much lower than ours.

You're an idealist. You haven't lived in our reality. It's all a romance to you, a reaction to your emotions. Go live it and get real.

I wish I could buy you a beer right now!

 

[GogglesPisano]

Who ever said healthcare in Europe was free? It's no more free than social security or medicare. But it is available to all, regardless of social class and income.

 

[tomgoodman]

Who actually took the "happiness" poll? I've read numerous other studies that have concluded that sub-Saharan Africans were by far the happiest and most content persons on the planet, despite the fact that they had very few Western niceties, and certainly not "free" healthcare!

That's a good point. Here's a ranking that shows most happiness in the Caribbean and Central America. Maybe some of these studies inject the pollster's own bias as to what should make people happy.

http://www.cnngo.com/explorations/life/denmark-ousted-100-latest-worlds-happiest-country-561826

 

[Twisted Mind]

It might be free. if you make less than xx,xxx and are not taxed as a result of your wages. Then is health care in effect free?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

You think who wins this election will not impact jobs in this country? Not just airlines jobs, but all jobs?

Take a look a Europe, see how socialism is working. Obama is a socialist hack who is in way over his head. Economic growth will cease if Obama gets another term. He will spend us into oblivian and we will be just like Greece in a few years. It's sad that an educated, intelligent group like airline pilots cannot see this.

Oh Yeah......Socialist Germany is just about ready for Anarchy.....don't they have national healthcare.

Spew your garbage to somebody as stupid as the guy in the mirror....

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Growing up in Canada, I became accustomed to lackluster healthcare. 36 hour waits in the ER, or waiting a year for an MRI? How about driving your family around in a Yaris because the gas is too expensive? Oh, and good luck finding a decent flying job. The safety net is just above ground level because quality of life and buying power is much lower than ours.

You're an idealist. You haven't lived in our reality. It's all a romance to you, a reaction to your emotions. Go live it and get real.

So what you are saying is you are a carbetbagger with a green card eh? How's our American job treating ya??

 

[captain caveman]

So what you are saying is you are a carbetbagger with a green card eh? How's our American job treating ya??

No, I didn't say that, you idiot. I am an American with siblings and ancestors that fought in defense of Canada and the United States. I would like to meet you face to face, you degenerate POS. ...eh? Your probably wear carpet on your head and around your mouth.

 

[Dornier 335]

Oh Yeah......Socialist Germany isjustaboutreadyfor Anarchy.....don'tthey havenationalhealthcare.

This statement couldn't be more wrong. What is socialist about Germany? And what do you know about their healthcare? Not sure, if you are being sarcastic...

 

[Raskal]

Why do folks continually bring up Greece? I realize most know nothing about it, especially those who continually bring it up, but just stop. Greece has a population slightly larger than New York. It has NEVER, save ancient times, had an economy beyond what it has now which is mainly tourism. It will not bring down the world economy because it's still barely a part of it.

Every 20 years most of the country's workforce leaves to go find employment, the last time was in the 70's-80's and they went mostly to Australia and South Africa.

They were forced into the EU, now the EU doesn't want to keep them afloat. Go figure.

Oh, and who helped them mask their debt so as to skirt the EU limits? Why that would be our "free market" heroes, the American company of Goldman Sachs...huh, we just can't f up our own country, we go after the little ones too.

Bring up Spain. Discuss Italy. Bring up something relevant, but please shut the hell up about Greece because all it does is confirm you're sitting around reading the idiot banner on a "news" channel.

 

[SIG600]

Why do folks continually bring up Greece? I realize most know nothing about it, especially those who continually bring it up, but just stop. Greece has a population slightly larger than New York. It has NEVER, save ancient times, had an economy beyond what it has now which is mainly tourism. It will not bring down the world economy because it's still barely a part of it.

Every 20 years most of the country's workforce leaves to go find employment, the last time was in the 70's-80's and they went mostly to Australia and South Africa.

They were forced into the EU, now the EU doesn't want to keep them afloat. Go figure.

Oh, and who helped them mask their debt so as to skirt the EU limits? Why that would be our "free market" heroes, the American company of Goldman Sachs...huh, we just can't f up our own country, we go after the little ones too.

Bring up Spain. Discuss Italy. Bring up something relevant, but please shut the hell up about Greece because all it does is confirm you're sitting around reading the idiot banner on a "news" channel.

Greece wasn't forced into the EU. As a matter of fact they fudged all their numbers to meet the requirements on debt/GDP, overall GDP, etc.

They never should've been admitted and the ECB knows it, however whats done is done and they're trying to contain the fallout of their failure.

 

[HA25]

And If Obama wins expect more. They are waiting to see what happens. No new hires for awhile if moron wins again.

So pilot hiring is worse under Obama that it was under GWII? There were more pilot jobs at real airlines between 2008-now then 2001-2008... that's the fact jack.

 

[JonnyKnoxville]

This little girl knows more about politics than any of you fools



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=058B39PBEYk

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

This statement couldn't be more wrong. What is socialist about Germany? And what do you know about their healthcare? Not sure, if you are being sarcastic...

Totally sarcastic......Germany is what is right about national healthcare.

 

[HA25]

Totally sarcastic......Germany is what is right about national healthcare.

Germany is pretty much what is right about government and culture in general. Having spent a lot of time there over the past 25 years I can honestly say there is no better place to live, or economy to live in.

Cracks me up when some Americans try to make all of Europe out to be like Portugal, Greece or Ireland.... those are the exceptions, the Rule is Germany, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Belgium, Finland, Denmark, Luxemburg, and even France is on a better footing that we are. Heck, if you took southern Italy out of Italy, you could even add it to the list of fundamentally strong economies.

 

[captain caveman]

PM from Bill Lundberg

Tough guy?
Hey tough guy....

Throttle back with the face-to-face talk. You are all about huffing and puffing behind a keyboard, so cut the BS and hike up your skirt Nancy.
__________________



Bill,

You're insulting, ignorant and have a brain defect. No need to PM me, unless you want to talk about it in person.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Caveman proving how cool he is.....

Dissing a PM like nobody's business! Setting up backyard brawls like some schoolgirl....talk in person? Sorry pal, you are too much of a tough hombre for me.....

 

[captain caveman]

No Bill, I don't want a brawl. I want to see if you will insult me to my face the way you insult people on this board with your big mouth. But you don't do it to people's face because you are an insecure chickensh!t. I'd love to meet you in the crew lounge just to see who you are, although I doubt you are really one of us.

 

[boxjockey]

HOLY THREAD DRIFT, BATMAN!!!!! BLAM!!!!

box

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Like I said......he's a tough Hombre!

Got nothin else but to now question where I work?

Flew Delta people around while you were still at Riddle.....so slow your roll.

 

[HA25]

Tough guy?
Hey tough guy....

Throttle back with the face-to-face talk. You are all about huffing and puffing behind a keyboard, so cut the BS and hike up your skirt Nancy.
__________________



Bill,

You're insulting, ignorant and have a brain defect. No need to PM me, unless you want to talk about it in person.

Wow, really?

 

[Quack]

So pilot hiring is worse under Obama that it was under GWII? There were more pilot jobs at real airlines between 2008-now then 2001-2008... that's the fact jack.

"the peak of U.S. airline pilot employment was in 2005, with 76,078 pilots. The numbers are down slightly since then, with 74,552 pilots working in 2010. There has been a gradual shift from major airlines to regional."

Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com...dustry-passenger-traffic-pilots#ixzz2B4baWYZ6

Between the years of 2009-2010 regionals added 4.9% to their ranks...majors lost 1.3%. How is it that P BO provided more jobs at majors again?

 

[HA25]

"the peak of U.S. airline pilot employment was in 2005, with 76,078 pilots. The numbers are down slightly since then, with 74,552 pilots working in 2010. There has been a gradual shift from major airlines to regional."

Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com...dustry-passenger-traffic-pilots#ixzz2B4baWYZ6

Between the years of 2009-2010 regionals added 4.9% to their ranks...majors lost 1.3%. How is it that P BO provided more jobs at majors again?

way to parse the numbers to suit your favor...

look at the number of furloughs between GW's terms (American 2000+, UAL 2000+, etc..)... the number of failed airlines (ATA, Aloha, Midwest, Skybus but to name 4 that come to mind)..

Under BO we've had hiring at US Air, Fedex, DAL, Alaska, HAL, CAL, Southwest..

 

[Quack]

Facts are the Facts. I'm not spinning them in any direction, and I'm surprise how sensitive you are about them. I would have loved to have seen more hiring by the likes of all the airlines you mentioned, but just because the airlines you stated did some hiring, does not mean that the job market has been better under this administration. The hiring argument is a function of the costs of doing business, oil prices, and the overall economy. If those things are going in the direction we need them to, you will see quantitative hiring. These are the real numbers that matter. Strong economy means people spend more, people spend more, demand goes up, demand goes up, need for pilots goes up, need for pilots goes up, hiring goes up, hiring goes up, well you get the point....