Delta reduction

[jonjuan]

Pilot jobs and salary growth did just fine under 8 years of Clinton.

In fact, I was furloughed during Bush's first term and my airline told me it was due to the fact that they thought Bush was going to invade Iraq which would cause the economy to slow down. Management was doing preemptive job cuts.

So quit listening to management. "My airline told me......". Love the lemmings who buy into this.

 

[SplitBar]

I skimmed it and read 3% Delta reduction, mostly international, and a deal for 70 more 76 seaters. I must have missed something. Oh well.

Most of the reduction is the parking of the 50 seaters. This is old news announced several months ago.

 

[bluesideup1]

Pilot jobs and salary growth did just fine under 8 years of Clinton.

In fact, I was furloughed during Bush's first term and my airline told me it was due to the fact that they thought Bush was going to invade Iraq which would cause the economy to slow down. Management was doing preemptive job cuts.

Ya, the slowdown in the airlines probably had nothing to due with 4 jets being hijacked with two slamming into the world trade centers.

The lack of intelligence on how this was going to happen is a direct result of Clintons pulling assets out of the field. Instead he tried to gather intelligence by satellites and we all see how well that worked.

Lets also not forget the multiple chances that Clinton had to kill Bin Laden or the lack of response from the first trade center bombings by al qaeda.

 

[KNOTS]

nvr mind political and pointless to debate

 

[SIG600]

Ya, the slowdown in the airlines probably had nothing to due with 4 jets being hijacked with two slamming into the world trade centers.

The lack of intelligence on how this was going to happen is a direct result of Clintons pulling assets out of the field. Instead he tried to gather intelligence by satellites and we all see how well that worked.

Lets also not forget the multiple chances that Clinton had to kill Bin Laden or the lack of response from the first trade center bombings by al qaeda.

It was also Clinton that repealed Glass-Steagall which really put the wheels in motion for the 2008 collapse. As well the Clinton administrations mandated mortgage lending to certain individual economic classes.

 

[eaglesview]

And If Obama wins expect more. They are waiting to see what happens. No new hires for awhile if moron wins again.

Think cabatoge, then rethink your position.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Remember in 2006 when Bush's DOT tried to allow foreign airlines to control U.S. Airlines and congress had to block the DOT http://www.unitedafa.org/assets/pop/print.aspx?id=4314

As soon as someone like Emirates buys someone like Delta, you can forget about a U.S. legacy airline job. Legacies will become feeders to large foreign owned international airlines flown by the lowest paid non-union pilots they can find. If we are lucky they might let us apply for a job after they are done giving first preference to pilots from their own country. When the DOT lets those foreign airlines fly within the United States (the stated goal of the EU), then you might as well give up on being a pilot based in the United States. All pilots will be based in the countries with the worst labor laws.

Last month the European Union began another fight to get us to change our airline ownership rules.

There's someone whose eyes are open!

The minute the airline infrastructure starts to crumble (one or two airlines carrying 1/3 of the US passenger load) you'll see the government drop foreign ownership rules rather than jump in with a taxpayer bailout of one of the most despised industries in America.

There's no place to safely hide your featherbed anymore!

 

[SIG600]

The US Gov't has gone so far as to make it illegal to 'participate' in the EU's Carbon ETS (which is a total scam anyway, and another form of fiat currency but thats another discussion all together). I can't see them supporting foreign ownership.

 

[jetflier]

Just chiming in on Dem vs Republicans, President Carter signed the deregulation act, adversely affecting the airline pilot profession. He is a Dem.

So, the Dem party is not always the friend of airline pilots/ Just saying...

 

[Lear70]

Just chiming in on Dem vs Republicans, President Carter signed the deregulation act, adversely affecting the airline pilot profession. He is a Dem.

So, the Dem party is not always the friend of airline pilots/ Just saying...

Shhhhh... This is Flightinfo. There's no place for truth and realism here.

That said, they're basically knocking on the door to screw with the last bastion of our profession: Legacy international flying.

Once that's gone, there will be no more "brass ring". The best you will be able to hope for is to top out somewhere around $150k a year as a 757/767 Captain flying coast to coast and down to the islands; certainly not worth sinking $50k-100k for your own training costs coming out of High School, spending 10-15 years shlepping at a Regional for $18k-45k a year, then MAYBE making it to a Major. Or what's left of one.

Support ALPA-PAC or CAPA-PAC as if your career depends on it, because... it does.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Since the jet age began(and maybe before) this industry has been a cyclical boom/bust ride. Looking back to the mid 60s through present day here is what I came up with. Feel free to prove/disprove any of my info. Most of this is from memory(which could be faulty from years of beer drinking, and from relatives who are retired pilots( again, faulty memories of age and lots of beer drinking)) So here is what I've come up with:

1. Johnson-D(takes over after Kennedy assasination) 1964-1969
Massive hiring at the majors/trunks. 3-5 year upgrades.
2. Nixon-R 1969-1974
Furloughs, stagnation or just a trickle of hiring
3. Ford-R 1974-1977
See above
4. Carter-D 1977-1981
Deregulation, hiring at most airlines.
5. Reagan/Bush-R 1981-1993
Patco, Braniff ch7, Cal ch11 and strike(which started a 25 year run of substandard pay, work and retirement overthere), Ual strike, Eal strike ch7,
brillance of the b scale at AA which eventually infected everyone by the end of the decade. To be fair, massive hiring at most legacies with fairly quick upgrades. Followed by layoffs and paycuts starting the last 2 years of Bush's term.
6. Clinton-D 1993-2001
Hiring begins slowly, contract repair starts with NWA strike/lockout of 98, followed by upward pattern bargaining elsewhere culminating in the UAL and DAL contracts of 2000-2001.
7. W-R 2001-2008
The attacks of 9/11 followed shortly thereafter by the all out assault on our careers. UsAir, Ual, Nwa, Dal(picked off one at a time)-all ch11 with a gutting of pay, pension and workrules, without so much as a peep from the politicians except the giddiness of the growth of the LCC's. AA volutarily doing it outside ch11. All the while massive outsourcing to regionals flying Much higher seat mile cost aircraft(that were very expensive, but somehow these bankrupt companies found the money for them). A glimmer of hope after coming out of Ch11 with hiring starting in 2007, followed by the out of nowhere Age 65 change which basically stopped the music once again.
8. Obama-D 2008-present
Hiring grinds to a stop at most airlines due to no retirements, merger mania begins, further reducing hiring needs(I do think this was/is needed to make a more stable industry going forward) DAL JCBA chips away at our ch11 contract, followed by our contract this summer(I voted no because I thought we could have squeezed a little more out) Hopefully UAL can improve on ours and AA-LCC (if they merge) can use that leverage. How'd I do? Feel free to pick apart as I have beer to drink and a party to go to.

And If Obama wins expect more. They are waiting to see what happens. No new hires for awhile if moron wins again.

 

[xray678]

Good grief. You're turning this into a political thread? Really?

I can't hired by Delta -- and it's all Obama's fault.:bawling:

Things are looking up here. Way up. New hires will be on the property next year. Debt is being paid down, and the 717's are net growth aircraft. Look for a widebody order next year.

Turn off the right-wing radio.

You think who wins this election will not impact jobs in this country? Not just airlines jobs, but all jobs?

Take a look a Europe, see how socialism is working. Obama is a socialist hack who is in way over his head. Economic growth will cease if Obama gets another term. He will spend us into oblivian and we will be just like Greece in a few years. It's sad that an educated, intelligent group like airline pilots cannot see this.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Take a look a Europe, see how socialism is working. Obama is a socialist hack who is in way over his head. Economic growth will cease if Obama gets another term. He will spend us into oblivian and we will be just like Greece in a few years. It's sad that an educated, intelligent group like airline pilots cannot see this.

FOX NEWS ALERT!

Fox is not news. It is entertainment, like the WWF except the chicks don't have bolt-ons and managed to pay their way through college by modeling for Victoria's Secret.

I appreciate your use of hyperbole as a literary tool, but that does not make it true. Your post just sounds like the bombastic wailing of the entire cast of The 5 (except Bennett of course).

 

[GogglesPisano]

You think who wins this election will not impact jobs in this country? Not just airlines jobs, but all jobs?

According to virtually all economists, no, actually.

Take a look a Europe, see how socialism is working. Obama is a socialist hack who is in way over his head. Economic growth will cease if Obama gets another term. He will spend us into oblivian and we will be just like Greece in a few years. It's sad that an educated, intelligent group like airline pilots cannot see this.

Some European nations, like Germany, the Netherlands, and the Scandinavians, are doing relatively well. "Socialism," as you call it, has benefited their citizens fairly well. The Danes consistently poll as the happiest people on earth, despite their high rate of taxation. One of the reasons is that they get a lot back from their taxation (health care, worker protections and strong social safety nets, for example.) High rates of unionization, a sense of community rather than "rugged individualism," and less economic disparity also play a factor. Economic mobility is now higher in Europe than it is in the US.

The Europeans are not destined for eternal poverty, as the right-wing pundits would have you believe.

 

[captain caveman]

According to virtually all economists, no, actually.



Some European nations, like Germany, the Netherlands, and the Scandinavians, are doing relatively well. "Socialism," as you call it, has benefited their citizens fairly well. The Danes consistently poll as the happiest people on earth, despite their high rate of taxation. One of the reasons is that they get a lot back from their taxation (health care, worker protections and strong social safety nets, for example.) High rates of unionization, a sense of community rather than "rugged individualism," and less economic disparity also play a factor. Economic mobility is now higher in Europe than it is in the US.

The Europeans are not destined for eternal poverty, as the right-wing pundits would have you believe.

Growing up in Canada, I became accustomed to lackluster healthcare. 36 hour waits in the ER, or waiting a year for an MRI? How about driving your family around in a Yaris because the gas is too expensive? Oh, and good luck finding a decent flying job. The safety net is just above ground level because quality of life and buying power is much lower than ours.

You're an idealist. You haven't lived in our reality. It's all a romance to you, a reaction to your emotions. Go live it and get real.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Growing up in Canada, I became accustomed to lackluster healthcare. 36 hour waits in the ER, or waiting a year for an MRI? How about driving your family around in a Yaris because the gas is too expensive? Oh, and good luck finding a decent flying job. The safety net is just above ground level because quality of life and buying power is much lower than ours.

You're an idealist. You haven't lived in our reality. It's all a romance to you, a reaction to your emotions. Go live it and get real.

Your synopsis is, respectfully, anecdotal. I've met plenty of Canadians who simply cannot understand why we've waited so long for a national healthcare system and have no substantive complaints about theirs.

The statistics speak for themselves. People in Northern Europe have better health care and are happier.

 

[JohnQ]

Your post sounds like the talking points from a graduate program at Berkeley. Have you ever considered that Northern Europeans may be "happier" due to reasons that have no relationship whatsoever to "health care" and tax policies? Who actually took the "happiness" poll? I've read numerous other studies that have concluded that sub-Saharan Africans were by far the happiest and most content persons on the planet, despite the fact that they had very few Western niceties, and certainly not "free" healthcare!

In fact, surely you agree that nothing on this planet is ever "free." Saying that the state paying for your doctor's visit somehow equates to it being "free" is like saying that we should all have a zero dollar deductible on our car insurance policy. That way if you get into an accident and file a claim, because your deductible was zero, therefore you paid "nothing" to get your car repaired (and why can't those ignorant Americans just realize that zero dollar deductibles are the only way that sophisticated people structure their insurance?) Of course such logic is ludicrous, because to get a policy with a zero dollar deductible, you would be paying much higher premiums to begin with. Further, you now have an incentive to file claims (or visit health care professionals) at the drop of a hat, because after all...it's "free!" But the difference is that a private auto insurer can drop YOU as a client if you file too many claims. Doctors working under a state mandate don't have that luxury.

But hey...it's all "free" right?

 

[cocknbull]

Growing up in Canada, I became accustomed to lackluster healthcare. 36 hour waits in the ER, or waiting a year for an MRI? How about driving your family around in a Yaris because the gas is too expensive? Oh, and good luck finding a decent flying job. The safety net is just above ground level because quality of life and buying power is much lower than ours.

You're an idealist. You haven't lived in our reality. It's all a romance to you, a reaction to your emotions. Go live it and get real.

I wish I could buy you a beer right now!

 

[GogglesPisano]

Who ever said healthcare in Europe was free? It's no more free than social security or medicare. But it is available to all, regardless of social class and income.

 

[tomgoodman]

Who actually took the "happiness" poll? I've read numerous other studies that have concluded that sub-Saharan Africans were by far the happiest and most content persons on the planet, despite the fact that they had very few Western niceties, and certainly not "free" healthcare!

That's a good point. Here's a ranking that shows most happiness in the Caribbean and Central America. Maybe some of these studies inject the pollster's own bias as to what should make people happy.

http://www.cnngo.com/explorations/life/denmark-ousted-100-latest-worlds-happiest-country-561826