Big meeting: Skywest, ASA/XJet, Alpa, SAPA

[Nevets]

Certainly, the first is hammered home to everyone during intial training and during recurrent. Is there some magical website link I can point you to to prove my claim? No. But if you don't believe it, feel free to disprove it on your own.

As for the second... OO flies to 154 US Cities and EV flies to 149, this means OO flies to more domestic destinations than any other single airline in the world. And in case you were wondering, combined SKYW flies to 234 unique US domestic destinations total.

Ya that's my point. It's all koolaid and you drink it up without even being skeptical about certain statistics with very specific caveats in order to inflate "young" impressionable egos. In my anecdotal experience, it seems to run very rampant with the OO people. But that's just me an as they say, ymmv.

 

[Freebrd]

ACARS sweet, now I don't even have to talk to a dispatcher. Just send a text about what's going on, deferral cleared/added etc. Sweet!

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Well said Walter! And might I add that when a dispatcher has that experience, he can fight one hell of a fight on your behalf against that manager who has a damn the torpedoes attitude who wants to send you on a barely legal aircraft with no APU and/or pack, gear down, on the final leg of your final day of a trip in that sort of weather where we all say "I know it's legal, but is it safe?" sort of day. I know it doesn't always happen, but in most cases we dispatchers have fought the fight and refused an aircraft or flight hours before departure so you didn't have to refuse it 10 minutes before. And when we work together and go to the company and say "The Captain and I are in agreement..." then it's pretty much case closed and then, as if by magic, a new, airworthy aircraft materializes from the plot that is acceptable, or a flight is delayed or cancelled all to the greater safety of our trade. But in order for this to happen we:

· Need to be safety minded
· Need to be customer focused.
· Need to work together.
· Have mutual respect for each other.
· Know how the “system” works.
· Have some consideration for the economics of our decisions.
· Be mindful of corporate priorities

Most of you get it but for those of you that are ready for the dispatcher to be put to rest in this industry along with second officers/navigators or just generally have disdain for anyone who is not a pilot:

· Would your flights be just as safe?
· Would your quality of lives on the job improve?
· Would your passengers have a better experience?

Some of you answer yes to the above questions and are probably right about the future of flight dispatch being limited as technology advances and passenger comfort without it increases but this, unfortunately, is not only a truth for the dispatcher.

Cheers!

You, Walter, and some of the other dispatchers on here sound like you're very reasonable and helpful... That being said, I can't tell you how many times I've had to call and try and explain why sending an A/C with either one pack or no APU in the middle of the summer to our hottest destinations wasn't such a great idea. Not once or twice, or even 3 or 4 times, but repeatedly all summer, every summer.
Also had more than my fair share of disagreements with dispatchers who wouldn't even try to hear me out about choosing a different alternate. After pointing out numerous reasons why their choice was less than optimal. I don't have all the answers, and I'm more than willing to hear their logic/reasoning, but have had far too many instances where their mind was made up and they just refused to listen to common sense.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

You, Walter, and some of the other dispatchers on here sound like you're very reasonable and helpful... That being said, I can't tell you how many times I've had to call and try and explain why sending an A/C with either one pack or no APU in the middle of the summer to our hottest destinations wasn't such a great idea. Not once or twice, or even 3 or 4 times, but repeatedly all summer, every summer.
Also had more than my fair share of disagreements with dispatchers who wouldn't even try to hear me out about choosing a different alternate. After pointing out numerous reasons why their choice was less than optimal. I don't have all the answers, and I'm more than willing to hear their logic/reasoning, but have had far too many instances where their mind was made up and they just refused to listen to common sense.

Good point. I just refuse the airplane. If they try and argue I just tell them politely and calm I'm not taking it. If they ask me to contact a chief, I tell them politely and professionally that whoever needs to contact me has my number and can do so. I've never had an issue with it. Had a chief call me and after a very brief conversation he backed me up. No biggie in that scenario you described.

 

[AntiJedi]

You, Walter, and some of the other dispatchers on here sound like you're very reasonable and helpful... That being said, I can't tell you how many times I've had to call and try and explain why sending an A/C with either one pack or no APU in the middle of the summer to our hottest destinations wasn't such a great idea. Not once or twice, or even 3 or 4 times, but repeatedly all summer, every summer.
Also had more than my fair share of disagreements with dispatchers who wouldn't even try to hear me out about choosing a different alternate. After pointing out numerous reasons why their choice was less than optimal. I don't have all the answers, and I'm more than willing to hear their logic/reasoning, but have had far too many instances where their mind was made up and they just refused to listen to common sense.

The problem with the hot places is that we have very little control over where the aircraft is routed. The coordinators tend to take care of issues like that ahead of time, and they are often very accommodating, but, unfortunately, sometimes, they can't help where it goes; it's stuck on that routing without severely delaying the operation. I've had my fair share of battles dealing with this, and other MELs before you even wake up in the morning.

As for your second point, well, the same can be said about the pilot side as well. No work group is immune; it's just part of life. However, to paraphrase what I stated earlier, "Thou shall not bully, or be bullied." If you are having problems with a stubborn person, then elevate it to a supervisor; get a second opinion. You might still be denied, or you might be shipped to another dispatcher, but at least you have that second opinion.

ACARS sweet, now I don't even have to talk to a dispatcher. Just send a text about what's going on, deferral cleared/added etc. Sweet!

Oh, the sweet irony.

 

[Freebrd]

That's a standard response at L-ASA, call the CP. Nowhere does it say that's required. Just refuse it and & tell em call me when you have a plane for me. Granted not the disp fault plane has no APU but don't try to intimidate us into taking. That goes for the FA and FO too if you have a weak Capt who will take the plane. Your health is at risk as well as the pax.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Good point. I just refuse the airplane. If they try and argue I just tell them politely and calm I'm not taking it. If they ask me to contact a chief, I tell them politely and professionally that whoever needs to contact me has my number and can do so. I've never had an issue with it. Had a chief call me and after a very brief conversation he backed me up. No biggie in that scenario you described.

Precisely the way it should be handled. More often than not, as long as you're calm and your reason for refusal is concise, I'm going to back you up if it comes to a call to the CP. I may ask a couple of questions, or offer a couple of "what-if" solutions, but I don't mean them to be combative...I'm only as good as the information I have available to me. As long as we're on the same page in regard to what each of us are and are not willing to do to resolve the situation, we can expedite the best situation for all involved.

I'll admit, sometimes, it's easy for us to forget just how hot an airplane with a busted APU or a single pack can get even when the temperature isn't through the roof. That's just the nature of us not being out in it everyday.

This is the kind of dialogue I wish I could have with my pilots at my current airline. I try to do it when I'm on the jumpseat, but it's not always easy to get that conversation going. The point is this...those of us who are in this gig for the long-haul want to be an asset to you, to be as helpful as possible.

 

[XPOO]

Ya that's my point. It's all koolaid and you drink it up without even being skeptical about certain statistics with very specific caveats in order to inflate "young" impressionable egos. In my anecdotal experience, it seems to run very rampant with the OO people. But that's just me an as they say, ymmv.

I dont know what part you find to be koolaid. Is it the fact that SkyWest has never had certificate action taken against a dispatcher? That is completely true. Are they the only signifigant airline to have never had such action taken? Could be pure conjecture, but I dont see anyone standing up to refute the claim, not even your hallowed ExpressJet counterparts.

And when it comes to APUs, take them, don't take them. I dont care. We call all the stations and make sure there is groud power, airstarts, and even a/c carts or hookups. If you still dont want to take it, I'll find a swap but I can't guarantee your flight will depart on time. You have a job to do, and so do I.

 

[Freebrd]

see the combative attitude there, geez dispatchers

 

[XPOO]

The combatative attitude is this: I have been tasked by the company to move aircraft to maintenance bases to get items fixed or inspections done. If an aircraft with an APU deferral can't get to a maintenance base, it can't get fixed. I'm doing the job I've been tasked to do, and we ALWAYS take into consideration every little factor. Your comfort level as well as the passenger's is not lost on us. If you refuse to take it, even after all that, then that is your prerogative. We will start figuring out something else. I understand your side of the issue, but you just dont seem to comprehend mine and therein lies the attitude.

 

[Freebrd]

and pilots have the final and ultimate say huh, get me another plane boy

 

[XPOO]

Aye Aye, Skipper. The first available plane I can get you into is about three hours from now. It's going to be a long night, but everyone will be snug as a bug in rug now.

 

[AntiJedi]

Aye Aye, Skipper. The first available plane I can get you into is about three hours from now. It's going to be a long night, but everyone will be snug as a bug in rug now.

But now, because of his pretentiousness, he's just screwed the next guy down the line. Quite the team player there.

 

[Nevets]

I dont know what part you find to be koolaid. Is it the fact that SkyWest has never had certificate action taken against a dispatcher? That is completely true. Are they the only signifigant airline to have never had such action taken? Could be pure conjecture, but I dont see anyone standing up to refute the claim, not even your hallowed ExpressJet counterparts.

And when it comes to APUs, take them, don't take them. I dont care. We call all the stations and make sure there is groud power, airstarts, and even a/c carts or hookups. If you still dont want to take it, I'll find a swap but I can't guarantee your flight will depart on time. You have a job to do, and so do I.

I don't know what my post had to do with APUs. But I am precisely talking about that conjecture. The fact that that conjecture cannot be proven one way or the other, or that anyone at a specific airline would even have that sort of information about the whole industry made up of other airlines, is the definition of koolaid. Just like when they tell you that the only reason you were hired is because you are the best of the best. How do they really know? They don't, which equals koolaid.

 

[XPOO]

I don't know what my post had to do with APUs. But I am precisely talking about that conjecture. The fact that that conjecture cannot be proven one way or the other, or that anyone at a specific airline would even have that sort of information about the whole industry made up of other airlines, is the definition of koolaid. Just like when they tell you that the only reason you were hired is because you are the best of the best. How do they really know? They don't, which equals koolaid.

I'm not going to list the specifics of how we know this on a public forum, mostly because I don't feel its very classy if implicate any third parties directly in this. But if you feel you've won, then awesome. Maybe someone will add another stripe to your shoulders.

 

[Nevets]

I'm not going to list the specifics of how we know this on a public forum, mostly because I don't feel its very classy if implicate any third parties directly in this. But if you feel you've won, then awesome. Maybe someone will add another stripe to your shoulders.

Then why did you say it was conjecture? Now you have specifics? Which one is it? Touchy much?

 

[wms]

The combatative attitude is this: I have been tasked by the company to move aircraft to maintenance bases to get items fixed or inspections done. If an aircraft with an APU deferral can't get to a maintenance base, it can't get fixed. I'm doing the job I've been tasked to do, and we ALWAYS take into consideration every little factor. Your comfort level as well as the passenger's is not lost on us. If you refuse to take it, even after all that, then that is your prerogative. We will start figuring out something else. I understand your side of the issue, but you just dont seem to comprehend mine and therein lies the attitude.

The problem at xjet is we r told It's to get a plane to a maint base, and then it flies a full line. The mx controllers and sector mgrs plan it that way and then use the dx to get the pilots to fly it under false pretense. It's not only with apus and packs, but pressurization, gear down revenue flights, nose wheel steering, etc.

 

[centralpilot]

The problem at xjet is we r told It's to get a plane to a maint base, and then it flies a full line. The mx controllers and sector mgrs plan it that way and then use the dx to get the pilots to fly it under false pretense. It's not only with apus and packs, but pressurization, gear down revenue flights, nose wheel steering, etc.

That. If you call them on it (APU broke in ATL for example), they just swap the airplane to a new Captain or a crew on their last round trip to get the airplane through the day(s).

 

[Clutch]

I'll take it

 

[Gr82Aviate]

The combatative attitude is this: I have been tasked by the company to move aircraft to maintenance bases to get items fixed or inspections done. If an aircraft with an APU deferral can't get to a maintenance base, it can't get fixed. I'm doing the job I've been tasked to do, and we ALWAYS take into consideration every little factor. Your comfort level as well as the passenger's is not lost on us. If you refuse to take it, even after all that, then that is your prerogative. We will start figuring out something else. I understand your side of the issue, but you just dont seem to comprehend mine and therein lies the attitude.

My number one concern is SAFELY getting my passengers to their destination. Several dispatch coordinators always insist I "have to take the A/C with no APU, or one pack", to get it in to MX. Yet, that A/C is already in a MX base(SLC)!!!!!!!!!


So, you say you "ALWAYS take into consideration every little factor", and yet you want me to fly around an A/C all day long with a single pack, or no APU to get that broken A/C into a different MX base?

I really don't think you guys get how bad the 200 packs are, especially the oldest 200's. We just had one couple of days ago that didn't have MEL'd packs or an inop APU and we still had people complaining every leg that it was too hot. The temps outside weren't even that hot anymore, and the peace of crap still wouldn't cool down, even running the APU during turns. It is not reasonable to expect us to fly these piles into the hottest destinations in the system in the summer with either single pack or no APU, not matter what the company "tasks" you with!!!!