Pilots Who Have Left Fractionals for Airlines or Corporate - Happier?

[CFIIer]

I'm a furloughed NJ guy that was lucky enough to get a federal law enforcement flying job. Great pay, great benefits, home almost every night, great retirement, and I don't deal with TSA anymore. I'm fortunate to say that I won't be going back...

 

[nordo_2]

I'm a furloughed NJ guy that was lucky enough to get a federal law enforcement flying job. Great pay, great benefits, home almost every night, great retirement, and I don't deal with TSA anymore. I'm fortunate to say that I won't be going back...

Nice...

 

[RJ Bum]

Furlouhed NJA, now 737 capt with a supplemental. miss the hard sched, home based and free bennies at NJA. Constant drama here at the supps, losing contracts, base changes, constant pay cuts and "work rule" changes.

I enjoyed the hawker 800 and most about the flying at NJA. was satisfied and content there and was happy to "hang my hat" there. Here, this is just a transit job with not much of a future. If I got called back tomorrow, I would put it off though to get as much time in the 73 as I could "just in case."

I guess I dont share as much resentment toward NJA as others. I just hope the job at NJA somewhat resembles what it was in the past when/if I go back.

 

[Hogprint]

Have talked to close to two dozen 495ers out on the road over the past couple of years. I'd say that close to 2/3 of them have found greener pastures in my unscientific polling. My questions were along the "how do you like the job?" and "would you consider coming back" type chit-chat and I'd add that most of the folks I spoke with were between '10-'11, so that may skew the data to some extent.

 

[BentOver]

Have talked to close to two dozen 495ers out on the road over the past couple of years. I'd say that close to 2/3 of them have found greener pastures in my unscientific polling. My questions were along the "how do you like the job?" and "would you consider coming back" type chit-chat and I'd add that most of the folks I spoke with were between '10-'11, so that may skew the data to some extent.

Also, when/if recalls happen in the next few years it won't be because of growth or any positive management concept. It will be because the EMT has made NJA so much less than when they were hired people will just be leaving out of frustration with the company.... Attrition/recall due to negative career advancement is not a positive IMO. Recall by default is not something that many will be willing to leave decent jobs for....

 

[Nolife]

Laid off Flex myself. I did 91 contract which paid well but at times the airplane manager wasn't tending to the planes well which was very frustrating. Ended up at a small charter. I have lots of unscheduled time off but since I live in my home town with the fam it's fine.

Life is hard in the margins, mx is on tight budget so we carry many MEL's at times and it's a constant stuggle to get management to spend money.

The equipment, mx, pay, and schedule were exponetially better at Flex and I would go back. At Flex I was never asked if we really needed that particular gauge or system to complete the trip, could I do another trip with less than legal rest; and then get fussed at when I responded with the safe and legal answer.

It's the difference between professional and amateur.

The one large 91 outfit I've done contract work for is on par with Flex and they both pay well and have enough staff to give hard days off. Problem is some one has to die in order for there to be an opening.

 

[Mr. Magoo]

Background: 6 years at Flt options. Beechjet all six years. 13 months to upgrade to capt. Decided to leave Flops when the teamsters were voted in. Applied to SWA in mar 06, 737 type in Jun 06, interview Jul 06, started class at SWA Sep 06.
Now, to answer your questions:

- How does your current flying gig compare to your fractional job?
A LOT less stress.

- Are you happier at your new gig? If so, why? If not, why not?
So much happier now. Doubled my pay from options the second year. Great plane, great coworkers. Lots of flying, (no sitting around fbos)

- Do you miss fractional flying and that lifestyle? What do you miss about it? What do you not miss?
i miss nothing about it.

- How does the flying equipment compare outside the fractional world - impressed/not impressed? Maybe your current aircraft can't compare to the CL300 you flew at Flexjet in terms of...
The plane i fly now is amazing. The support is better. If something breaks, it's fixed at the next stop or two, max.

- If you could return to the fractional world (i.e., offered recall), would you return or not?
I don't like to say "never" but, never.

 

[clickclickboom]

Background : Hired at Corporate Wings in the beginning of 99 to fly a citation 2 and Conquest 2 was there three weeks and called for a beechjet initial and transfer to flight options did a year on the beechjet had a 6 month upgrade spent my 7.5 years there in the mid cabin program.

It was a great job I mean a blast I was single flew all over the place had some great layovers really miss the early years of flight options. Flops was a great job that got worse every year. 1 year the senior flight officer program dissappeared along with $1200 a month, next year the $450 travel bonus went bye bye, then the large cabin jets started dissapparing etc... I was sub 100 on the sen list and at the time there was around 900 pilots.

Bailed for jetblue in late 05 and dont think i could ever go back to corporate or frac. I love the pbs I love asking the wife what events we have planned the next month and bidding accordingly, I love the fly the jet go home mentality.

I certainly dont miss loading bags on a hot august summer day in pbi completely soaked in sweat


Flying is not as dynamic or exciting but who cares. The only thing i think about is my family when i am on the road anyways I could care less about the plane. It has wings, burns jet fuel and goes really fast they all do.

If i stayed at flops I would be pic on the citation X and barely making 85K

Will do about $150k this year plus retirement and benes

 

[clueless]

What Mr. Magoo said above, with 10 exclamation points.

Best day of my flying life was getting the call from SWA. Second best day was buttoning up the jet at CShares knowing I was never coming back.

After more than six years away from Shares, I still taxi past FBOs I used to rot inside of while sitting in Barcaloungers and shudder.

 

[Ticker]

Mega dittos a-la Mr. Magoo and Clueless. I suppose I'll eventually see you two on the road...likely after 2015.

 

[727C47]

in a nut shell, yes, I am happier

 

[captain007]

I was furloughed from NJA.

I got hired as manager of a growing shipping company located at the port of Long Beach. My pay is equal to a NJA JR captain, with better health benefits, and a company provided pension. I am home every night and can take time off whenever I like. The opportunities to advance in this company seem endless.

I thought I would never say this, but there is no way I will ever go back to the aviation industry (NJA recall included). I have turned down several pilot gigs, including a few Major Airline Interviews.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

My story is similar to Mr. Magoo's. 8 years at Options all in the Beechjet. I left in July 2008 for SWA and feel so fortunate. So much less stress. More money, better employee relations, better benefits. The flying at Options was fun but at the time I left the job wasn't fun anymore. 2008 was a hard time at Options and no one was happy. I have never regretted leaving. I miss most of the guys I flew with. I feel for all the guys on the street and hope that they have the opportunity to return. Hopefully most have found something better.

 

[beytzim]

nj to wn

I got hired by WN back in 05 when I was an NJA captain. It was right before the big contract. When I left it was a no brainer: I was making about 80k/yr as a Hawker Capt.

For the first year at SWA, I often thought I made the wrong decision. I liked the flying much more at NJA, the planes were more fun to fly, the passengers were friendlier, the pilots were nicer, and the schedule better. At SWA, I flew on reserve my first year, flying 85 hrs a month with long duty days. The Captains I flew with were ex fighter pilots who clearly thought that anyone civilian is a moron and a $hitty pilot. It was not fun, and I thought of quitting and return to NJA. The only reason I didn't was for the fact that I would start at the bottom of the NJA seniority.

By my second year, I got off reserve and my pay went from about 65k to 95k. I started liking working there much more. I also started a family and having the ability to fly only three days a week was a godsend for the wife and kids. As my bidding ability improved, so did my happiness at SWA.

After seven years, I can now say that it was good decision to leave NJA. I make about 150k and fly 3 days a week as an FO. I will upgrade in another 4 years or so. But who cares.

I do miss the corporate flying and do look fondly at the FBOs when I taxi by. If you are happy flying corporate/fractionals, and are making over 100k, there is no need to leave for the airlines.

Do not come to the airlines if you have to commute and have kids at home. Stay where you're at.

 

[vixin]

I will upgrade in another 4 years or so. But who cares.

You and I are the same senority. Its not gonna happen in 4 years. I dont care if I ever upgrade, been there done that. QOL is where its at for me. Except for flying with the occassional moron.

Do not come to the airlines if you have to commute and have kids at home. Stay where you're at.

I couldnt agree more with this. If you are going to commute stay where you are at. Unless you see downsizing in your future. I dont know how some commute their entire careers.

 

[BentOver]

Being able to live wherever you want and NOT have to commute is huge. Probably more of a factor in flying for a fractional than any other componenent of aviation.

I used to do a 1 hr commute and it still killed me. Rotting in terminals waiting for the flight home after you missed the last one by 2 minutes. Sitting in Ops for 5 hrs waiting for your trip to start.... Flying is great but I want to be paid for the time I'm away from home. Commuting to an airline does not allow that unless you live in base. If you live in a base then 121 is better IMO.

While at NJA, if I had to wait a few hours for a flight home, it was done in an oversized FBO chair reclined watching ESPN. When it was close to commute time, I'd wait for my pre arranged limo, sedan or taxi to take me to the terminal. If I missed the flight for whatever reason, NJA just booked me on another one. No questions asked.

 

[RJ Bum]

^^^^^^^^
This

 

[gutshotdraw]

Going back to traditional corporate is looking better every day.

If it weren't for the schedule, I'd have been OUT long ago.

 

[imacdog]

Having the schedule is huge.

 

[jonjuan]

Having the schedule is huge.

Which schedule? 7 on 7 off or 3 on 4 off?

 

[imacdog]

Any schedule. I'm talking schedule vs. part 91 no schedule.

 

[gutshotdraw]

A lot of guys here never worked corporate and don't understand that hard schedules are EXTREMELY rare in the corporate world.

 

[Frac Daddy]

I was with RTA/FLOPS for 6 years. Bailed in '06 for FedEx. Liked my frac job, but I can't begin to tell you how much better my current gig is.

 

[johnsonrod]

For those fractional pilots who departed or are looking to depart now, what percentage are looking at jumping to the airline side vs corporate? In other words, has the type of flying done in fractional flying (i.e., adhoc flying, flying VIPs to resort destinations, etc) persuaded one type of flying vs another? If you have flown fractional for years, does flying an A320 from LAX to JFK several times a month for Virgin America or flying A319s for Spirit between FLL and LGA sound appealing? Some pilots would love the inherent stability of airline flying and some would hate it... Sort of a loaded question, but I have spoken with fractional pilots with passionate views about types of flying and what they would do...

I also understand that getting furloughed gives you few choices sometimes to support your family. Not everyone has the opportunity to go to FedEx...

 

[Helmsalee]

Flying for a major airline, while not as much fun as frac flying, is a far superior career. Let me qualify a bit. I am not talking about Spirit, Virgin or any regional. Jet Blue maybe is a possible exception. I do include FedEx and UPS but not all the other cargo outfits no matter how long they have been in business. Income, QOL, and the ability to forget the job when you go home are huge. Now, if you insist on living in one place, and cannot get a major airline job close to that place, then you will have to commute. This sucks when junior, and will erode your seniority even when senior. Those fracs with liberal basing policies might be better for you (if you can get on and stay on). Living in (or near) your base with a major is the best job in aviation. You will make far more money, be home more and can leave the job behind when off duty.
I've done both. Frac flying was a blast but for a career, the majors are far better.
Helm

 

[RideandDrive]

I left Netjets for Spirit recently and I'm much happier. I have worked for other airlines...including Jetblue.

Much easier job and the days are shorter. That being said I wouldn't commute, California to JFK to work at Jetblue. I learned the hard way on that one...
Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[FLYLOW22]

I think both have their merits.

121 Major... Live in base... Loved the money. Loved the crews and layovers. Fun. That fun factor has changed a bit I think in 11 years...

NJA... Money is ok... Could be better. QOL is great once I'm off the airline and away from the ERRline terminal. Schedule allows me to actually have a life outside of work. I can actually plan dental appointments. Also, the schedule allows me to pursue other revenue producing ventures that completely eclipse what just a pilots salary anywhere could equal.

I wouldn't say either is a bad choice... Unless your mindset is your limitation.

 

[G4dude]

One of the best threads ever! I love NJA, but am considering a managed plane with a guaranteed contract. Any thoughts?

 

[OPECJet]

One of the best threads ever! I love NJA, but am considering a managed plane with a guaranteed contract. Any thoughts?

Get out while you can. I question the long term viability of NJA. My opinion is obviously biased seeing as I need about 500 of you guys to bail so I can get recalled, but that aside, if you find something more stable than Netjets I think you'd be remiss not to jump on it. Hansell could very well sink this place. He doesn't need Warren and Berkshire to make his millions and boost his ego as Sokol did, and to a lesser extent, Santulli. This makes him one of the most dangerous SOBs out there to your career.

 

[Helmsalee]

How long does that contract run? Bet it's not long enough for a career. What happens after it runs out? Something to consider.
Helm