The Delta vote

[SLUF4]

The pay in this TA is the least of my worries...I'm a no

 

[General Lee]

The pay in this TA is the least of my worries...I'm a no

You need to hit a roadshow first and understand this TA.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[BID]

There was probably a good argument when Delta sold scope a couple of years ago? Hey, it's just a couple of 76 seat aircraft. Only 6 more than a 70 seat jet!

All I know is if Delta signs off on this there will be a lot of 90 seat aircraft (configured to 76) flying out there. Our United CEO wants this. If he offers us your contract I will vote no. I just can't imagine allowing such big jets being out sourced. No thanks.

This TA is complicated and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it If there is a lesson I am seeing here, it is to not allow bigger jets in the first place. You can't recapture any of it and the company will find ways to entice and buy bigger regional aircraft.

$$$

 

[Speedtape]

No pilot group can negotiate the United contract except the UAL/CO pilots.

 

[nimtz]

You know what GL I always gave you the benefit of the doubt unlike many others around here. Your sad attempt to legitamize our petty MEC fighting as an excuse for DAL ALPA to open 70+ seat scope says it all. I hope/pray the majority of DAL pilots are smarter then you. Again congrats for being right ASA lifers and to GL enjoy the carrot you hypocrite!

 

[180ToTheMarker]

You need to hit a roadshow first and understand this TA.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I've hit two of them. Ask the reps hard questions and they dance around the answer. That scares me. Either our own reps don't know the TA that well or they are hiding something. I'm a "no"

 

[Rebound]

There are several aspects to this TA that I do not like. The key factors leading me towards a yes vote are: I have not read or heard of any viable alternatives whoes potential gains outweigh the inherent risks. If I believe in the current negotiating process, this should be the most we were able to get out of the company at this particular window of time.
If 3 1/2 years from now we are still profitable, we need to hit up the company for more. If the economy tanks, we'll be glad we locked in what we did. I am trying not to base my vote on what I feel we should get rather what we are able to negotiate.

 

[jtf]

What happens to scope in bankruptcy? Say you have the max 76 seaters on property and then some hiccup along with 14 billion in underfunded pensions sets off bankruptcy. The scope gets tossed almost instantly to allow all to stay and to stay at 76 seats. Then quite possibly the 717 leases get terminated. Maybe some more paycuts to go along with a further reduction in scope since there is a clear history that the mainline pilots don't want to fly anything smaller than a 717- you've got the rates in writing, but never flew them.

I have no idea what the end game is, but this just seems too easy to not have an unseen catch- not that giving away that many larger airplanes isn't a huge catch.

 

[Tanker Clown]

I like Genitals "no help" comment. SWA has ZERO RJs and still makes more than Song. genitals was going to do back flips over whatever came out. He's demonstrated how big of a sucker he is. How'd those pay cuts treat ya? Keep ya out of bankruptcy?

Whatever GL does, you guys would be wise to do the opposite.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Anyone ever heard of Ford & Harrison, where your head of HR is from? duh?

You guys at Delta need to:

STOP listening to road shows

STOP reading Negotiater's Notepad and other memos

STOP taking your reps answers as fact.

(...and it should go without saying STOP listening to Kool-Aid from management and their concurrent scare tactics via media press releases about how everything hinges on the pilots)

Why???? The bottom line is they can put anything they want in a "notepad" or memo and tell you anything they want (and it may not even be malicious from reps, they likely have just been drinking the Kool-Aid)...and NONE of that matters a bit!

WHAT matters then? What is specifically WRITTEN in the *SIGNED contract*! Stop complaining about "legalese" and just READ what is ACTUALLY WRITTEN in your native language...I assure you, you can do this, and it is the ONLY thing that can be used for or against you, NOT a "Notepad" or hearsay.

The whole time, think? "Why is this passage vague?" or "Why does this not specify this?" "or prevent THAT?" Is this written in a way they can mess with us in even NEW ways?"

They pay this law firm MILLIONS to keep the same millions from the pilots. They have a playbook (read "Confessions of a Union Buster") and without fail pilot unions fall for the exact same tricks, over and over.

WHY is there such a rush (on the management's end)? WHY is your union SO accomodating to them? They hold all the cards, yet STILL run scared. When does "next time" become THIS time?

You all need to FORCE your union to FIGHT them (they WILL win if they are strong)...and by all means STOP FALLING RIGHT INTO THEIR HANDS by dividing up into DPA and N vs S! That is EXACTLY what they want... they want you to be divided on this TA...they win EITHER way...PILOTS, however, can only win ONE way: Sticking together with the union you have, throw the Management Buddies TO THE CURB *NOW* and get smart RADICAL people in there who realize the power of what? 10 to 12,000 PILOTS that the airline NEEDS! My GAHD if you don't have leverage NOW, WHEN do you?????

Get rid of the Kool-Aid Drinking, management LOVING double agent members of the MEC you have NOW and get the experienced FIGHTERS in there NOW in your *CURRENT UNION*! There is nothing better to them to have a divided and WEAKER union.

The whole industry is watching, if your own personal losses aren't enough motivation. Bottom line, "YES" to this embarassment equals NO WIN for pilots there and elsewhere, NO + fighters=ONLY UP!


ETA--- After googling "Ford & Harrison" (if you are sadly unfamiliar), also Google "Airlines for America" and look at the board. Management of ALL these airlines are working TOGETHER tp play ALL of you airline pilots against each other and divide and conquer in unison. Thought that was obvious but reading here makes me wonder.