Delta TA-whos seen it?

[Muskycat]

Nobody on here knows what is in this TA yet.

Exactly. Because this TA was actually done 11th, Friday, announced the am of the 15th. Those involved where given time to divulge the TA over the weekend.
MEC will start first thing thursday morning and will vote friday, late in the day. If it passes, then on to the road shows. If not, well then....

I have to laugh at all these commits about this TA after it was officially announced the 15th but has been done since the 11th.

 

[xjhawk]

with what pilots to fly any planes at Pinnacle? Seriously with how this place is being managed and ran people are leaving in droves. If they gut the contract in this joke of a bankruptcy they will get more than they bargained for with how many people leave. There was a reason the unions email said to expect what-850 furloughs but the company posted only 450 over 18 months when the planes will be gone in a year. So that tells me they expect this to be quick and are going after specific items in bankruptcy-not necessarily all of the pilot contract. But either way, if you have the chance-leave.

 

[doh]

You are absolutely correct it is for Delta Pilots to decide, which you so pointedly pointed out I am not. And believe me I'm reminded of that each and every time and I request a jump seat on MAINLINE or the days I walk through the terminal and say hello and simply get a smirk or the looking at his shoes...are they better at Delta....the shoes?

I just think it's funny that you are pounding your fist on the table saying NO MORE SCOPE RELIEF!!! Yet I have NEVER seen anyone on this board in all of it's millions of posts propose what they would be willing to sacrifice to purchase scope back. Instead we here things like "it's taking care of itself." Really how is it doing that? Because I've seen the seats and the weight of "scoped" aircraft get larger and larger and larger with each and every contract. But let me guess? This time is different right? Well I really truly and sincerely hope so. I would like a pair of those really nice shoes someday and as long as scope follows it's traditional path I'm not sure that I will. Rather what will happen is what always happens, you see management hold ALL the cards in bargaining. Each and every time ALPA hits a home run it's soon follow by chapter 11...read United circa 2000. The 50% will give into Top end scope protection, a bit of a raise, it's the same carrots every time.

What somewhat baffles me is that this has always been blamed on the "regional" pilot. That some how I am responsible for what YOU bargained away, weather in Bankruptcy or not. That you somehow expect me to quit going to work to feed my family for the benefit of yours. I have no illusions that your job... and shoes are better than mine, hence why most everyone is trying to get where you are.

So when the TA comes across your table for your review, don't be surprised when there is some twist on the numbers for larger jets to be operated by
regional airlines. I can see it now, as your patting each other on the back for getting rid of all those 50 seaters a rather large increase in 86 seat jets will be the cost. You will most likely declare victory for not "really" giving in on scope.

In a week you will see what is at hand and as you so eloquently pointed out it will be decided by a DELTA pilot.

I was simply trying to start a dialog on what the DELTA pilot would be willing to use as currency to purchase back scope.

That pretty much sums up what they have done since the 80's. I haven't given up though. I still say a little prayer each time they vote. Lord, please let them grow a pair! It hasn't worked yet, but He supposedly moves in mysterious ways...

 

[Troy208]

You are absolutely correct it is for Delta Pilots to decide, which you so pointedly pointed out I am not. And believe me I'm reminded of that each and every time and I request a jump seat on MAINLINE or the days I walk through the terminal and say hello and simply get a smirk or the looking at his shoes...are they better at Delta....the shoes?

I just think it's funny that you are pounding your fist on the table saying NO MORE SCOPE RELIEF!!! Yet I have NEVER seen anyone on this board in all of it's millions of posts propose what they would be willing to sacrifice to purchase scope back. Instead we here things like "it's taking care of itself." Really how is it doing that? Because I've seen the seats and the weight of "scoped" aircraft get larger and larger and larger with each and every contract. But let me guess? This time is different right? Well I really truly and sincerely hope so. I would like a pair of those really nice shoes someday and as long as scope follows it's traditional path I'm not sure that I will. Rather what will happen is what always happens, you see management hold ALL the cards in bargaining. Each and every time ALPA hits a home run it's soon follow by chapter 11...read United circa 2000. The 50% will give into Top end scope protection, a bit of a raise, it's the same carrots every time.

What somewhat baffles me is that this has always been blamed on the "regional" pilot. That some how I am responsible for what YOU bargained away, weather in Bankruptcy or not. That you somehow expect me to quit going to work to feed my family for the benefit of yours. I have no illusions that your job... and shoes are better than mine, hence why most everyone is trying to get where you are.

So when the TA comes across your table for your review, don't be surprised when there is some twist on the numbers for larger jets to be operated by regional airlines. I can see it now, as your patting each other on the back for getting rid of all those 50 seaters a rather large increase in 86 seat jets will be the cost. You will most likely declare victory for not "really" giving in on scope.

In a week you will see what is at hand and as you so eloquently pointed out it will be decided by a DELTA pilot.

I was simply trying to start a dialog on what the DELTA pilot would be willing to use as currency to purchase back scope.

+1000000000!!..

Love the part about the shoes!

 

[Hamfighter]

This is the first contract vote since all of us who spent 7-10 years at the regionals where hired at Delta. While we are, of course, the minority at Delta, I can guarantee not one of us will vote for anything that gives up one more seat. Not one 76 seater even if giving up 50s.
And, by the way, I think you'll find more and more friendly double-breasters.

 

[Hamfighter]

I have to chuckle too that the iPad wanted to correct "double-breasters" for "breast ears," cuz that make more sense.

 

[Max Powers]

You are absolutely correct it is for Delta Pilots to decide, which you so pointedly pointed out I am not. And believe me I'm reminded of that each and every time and I request a jump seat on MAINLINE or the days I walk through the terminal and say hello and simply get a smirk or the looking at his shoes...are they better at Delta....the shoes?

I just think it's funny that you are pounding your fist on the table saying NO MORE SCOPE RELIEF!!! Yet I have NEVER seen anyone on this board in all of it's millions of posts propose what they would be willing to sacrifice to purchase scope back. Instead we here things like "it's taking care of itself." Really how is it doing that? Because I've seen the seats and the weight of "scoped" aircraft get larger and larger and larger with each and every contract. But let me guess? This time is different right? Well I really truly and sincerely hope so. I would like a pair of those really nice shoes someday and as long as scope follows it's traditional path I'm not sure that I will. Rather what will happen is what always happens, you see management hold ALL the cards in bargaining. Each and every time ALPA hits a home run it's soon follow by chapter 11...read United circa 2000. The 50% will give into Top end scope protection, a bit of a raise, it's the same carrots every time.

What somewhat baffles me is that this has always been blamed on the "regional" pilot. That some how I am responsible for what YOU bargained away, weather in Bankruptcy or not. That you somehow expect me to quit going to work to feed my family for the benefit of yours. I have no illusions that your job... and shoes are better than mine, hence why most everyone is trying to get where you are.

So when the TA comes across your table for your review, don't be surprised when there is some twist on the numbers for larger jets to be operated by regional airlines. I can see it now, as your patting each other on the back for getting rid of all those 50 seaters a rather large increase in 86 seat jets will be the cost. You will most likely declare victory for not "really" giving in on scope.

In a week you will see what is at hand and as you so eloquently pointed out it will be decided by a DELTA pilot.

I was simply trying to start a dialog on what the DELTA pilot would be willing to use as currency to purchase back scope.

I used to be in your shoes and now at Delta - I feel your pain and you are absolutely correct.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

USAPA on a bad day is far better than ALPO on a good day!

Whatever St. Nic.....take your flame bait back to your east/west threads.

 

[JECKEL]

"And, by the way, I think you'll find more and more friendly double-breasters."

Yea, they're called "former Northwest guys."

 

[stein429]

USAPA is a Bad Day.

USAPA on a bad day is far better than ALPO on a good day!

There's no other view on that bunch of screwups.

 

[Kroll]

Well the title says "has anyone seen the TA"

From the things I'm hearing I'm not sure I want to see it. Sounding like a huge TURD.

The word I hear was we get 80 something 717s and DCI get 100 more 76s. If this is the case. ALPA did not hear us loud and clear. Might be time to try DPA out.

 

[waveflyer]

I love what I'm hearing from most of you delta guys- esp those that have been at regionals as well-
But it's important to remember that scope was never sold out easily- it was always controversial and with many twisty roads leading to the justifications for it. Everyone ought to expect a TA that is just as convoluted pitting you against yourself with the trade offs. This won't be a simplistic scope for pay deal- it'll put international code share scope against RJ scope with pay, work rules and disappearing 50 seaters (WHICH ARE GONE ANYWAY BC OF FUEL) thrown in to muddy the waters.
I wish you all good luck- I have confidence in many at DALPA- but so many more have been willing to sell out in those muddy waters, that i'm not sure which camp is the majority over there- the ones who get it or those who don't?

 

[ultrarunner]

At the end of the day, scope is about the number of SEATS being sold out to the lowest bidder, no planes. Who gives a rats a$$ how it's divided up.... The company cares about SEATS....

My guess is this TA will not see any significant reduction in DCI seats, and who knows, maybe an increase....

 

[amcnd]

You guys are "SO" woried about RJ's... While Emirates adds more and more US citys... And we can't compete with there service... Proboly the same reason Delta/United, ect don't have the A380.... Once again "so" woried about the RJ...
I think the point is Delta wants out of 200~ CRJ200's. So whats the big deal if they replace them with 100~ 900's...

 

[Scoot 11]

USAPA on a bad day is far better than ALPO on a good day!

Good. Then enjoy your pathetic payrates, cause you'll be on them for the foreseeable future. Your 12 year 737 captains make what a 12 year Delta or a 4th year Southwest 737 first officer makes presently.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

You guys are "SO" woried about RJ's... While Emirates adds more and more US citys... And we can't compete with there service... Proboly the same reason Delta/United, ect don't have the A380.... Once again "so" woried about the RJ...
I think the point is Delta wants out of 200~ CRJ200's. So whats the big deal if they replace them with 100~ 900's...

Or 50 757s
or 25 747s

 

[Scoot 11]

You guys are "SO" woried about RJ's... While Emirates adds more and more US citys... And we can't compete with there service... Proboly the same reason Delta/United, ect don't have the A380.... Once again "so" woried about the RJ...
I think the point is Delta wants out of 200~ CRJ200's. So whats the big deal if they replace them with 100~ 900's...

Bingo! Someone finally gets it. TOP END SCOPE is way more important than the rj problem which appears to be fixing itself anyway.

 

[777forever]

Bingo! Someone finally gets it. TOP END SCOPE is way more important than the rj problem which appears to be fixing itself anyway.

Bill Swelbar said it best, stop worrying about Duluth and start thinking about Shanghai.

Even Lee Moak figured out its dumb to fight over routes that barely make money, if at all

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

 

[Abernathy]

I heard they negotiated hats as optional. Discuss.

 

[i fly boxes]

What I would like to see is no cap on 76 seat aircraft if delta thinks that's what they need to make money. Here is the thing though: any regional who operates an aircraft larger than 50 seats for delta must only fly for delta and no other carrier and must be given a delta seniority number. No delta pilot may be downgraded or furloughed because of this transaction. For all the mainline pilots so worried about 76 seat aircraft Inthink you should worry about top scope more it's more dangerous