Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Autoland vs HUD, RNAV/RNP vs IAN?

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
C

Critter717

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 20, 2003
Posts
69
For the SWA and AAI folks:

I have only used autoland and Integrated Approach Navigation on AirTran airplanes. I'm curious if there are guys or gals that have used a combination of any of these(HUD,Autoland tranny style, IAN,RNAV/RNP) and can potentially offer some reasons as to why SWA would stick with the HUD. Additionally, why pursue RNAV/RNP, which is largely unavailable, instead of pressing the approach button and turning almost any non-precision approach into an ILS?

Thanks in advance.
 
A HUD is also useful for a whole lot more than just CATIII approaches.
 
Yeah, ask lots of "why don't you..." questions and repeatedly point out how you did it at your last airline. You'll be popular.

Hasn't everyone heard how it works at SWA training by now? The last thing they want to hear is your opinion. And the last thing your classmates want to do is sit in that classroom one more minute than is absolutely necessary.

Just STFU and color inside the lines like a good boy. Then go on break and have some coffee. And then enjoy that coffee while perusing all the "I love me" pictures in the "Hallway of Ex-wives".
 
Last edited:
Juniority said:
Yeah, ask lots of "why don't you..." questions and repeatedly point out how you did it at your last airline. You'll be popular.

Hasn't everyone heard how it works at SWA training by now? The last thing they want to hear is your opinion. And the last thing your classmates want to do is sit in that classroom one more minute than is absolutely necessary.

Just STFU and color inside the lines like a good boy. Then go on break and have some coffee. And then enjoy that coffee while perusing all the "I love me" pictures in the "Hallway of Ex-wives".
Click to expand...

+1 unfortunately.
 
scoreboardII said:
Only one reason, it's cheaper. Auto land configurations costs much more to maintain than one HUD.
Click to expand...


You forgot to mention because "that is the way we did it in the fighter"
 
IAN is good stuff. Makes any straight in non precision, a precision approach w/ a capturable glide path. Much cooler than using VS. RNP approaches using LNAV and VNAV would be about the same except they are not straight in approaches. Both make life alot easier/safer and hope someday SWA sees the value in this. There are more HUDs than autoland configured airplanes. That one ain't changing, unless the SWA POI insisted for some reason.
 
humveedriver said:
IAN is good stuff. Makes any straight in non precision, a precision approach w/ a capturable glide path. Much cooler than using VS. RNP approaches using LNAV and VNAV would be about the same except they are not straight in approaches. Both make life alot easier/safer and hope someday SWA sees the value in this. There are more HUDs than autoland configured airplanes. That one ain't changing, unless the SWA POI insisted for some reason.
Click to expand...
Whats an IAN? Says the guy who gets to look at three lights during a CATIII.
 
I don't think autolands are coming to the SWA side anytime soon. AT is using the same logbook now, so they need an area for logging the aircraft autolands.
 
humveedriver said:
IAN is good stuff. Makes any straight in non precision, a precision approach w/ a capturable glide path. Much cooler than using VS. RNP approaches using LNAV and VNAV would be about the same except they are not straight in approaches. Both make life alot easier/safer and hope someday SWA sees the value in this. There are more HUDs than autoland configured airplanes. That one ain't changing, unless the SWA POI insisted for some reason.
Click to expand...

We just got rid of the dive and drive policy about a year ago. I just colored and colored and colored. Hey at least you will get to fly the -300. You don't need that stuff anyway.:)
 
AA is also one of the few who don't certify the 738s with autoland. Hand-flown HUD on CAT 3s only.
 
aa73 said:
AA is also one of the few who don't certify the 738s with autoland. Hand-flown HUD on CAT 3s only.
Click to expand...

Well, there you go, blame it on American, because the Southwest founding fathers in flight ops, Were doing everything they could to copy the AA operation including those white bars on epaulets! Nothing like wearing white bars with a seatbelt covered in 20 years of dirt, grime and someone's lunch. Oh well, on with a new topic!

Damn Americans! ;)

Later,
KBB
 
It is about cost with the HUD. When we announced RNP that was when I knew we were looking at international stuff. Because lord knows the FAA is moving so fast on getting it in the US!!! RNP will give us a lot more flexibility flying down there. I don't know how many times I was on approach in Mexico and the vor or ils magically disappeared!

The HUD is great....unless you're flying with a HUD stud with a name like viper...then you pray it's deferred so you can grab some coffee and popcorn and sit back and watch the show! Fun times until you get sea sick...
 
scoreboardII said:
Whats an IAN? Says the guy who gets to look at three lights during a CATIII.
Click to expand...

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_22/737approach_story.html#3

See above link for the gospel. Short story is it makes flying a non precision approach procedurally and visually the same. If you are doing a RNAV approach you just have to ensure a LOC frequency isn't dialed in. The only airport I have gone into where the G/P was way off from the VASI is LAS. Of course the regular ILS G/S is a little funky there too (at least 50 ft high too high over the threshold). With IAN you hit the approach button, ILS like course and path indications pop up and you fly the approach just like an ILS to the non precision minimums.
 
Humm, I know what you are saying. I was talking to some AT bros and told them they might see some things done diffrent. Not because we don't know about the other styles of flying via automation, it is cost related. Trust me when I got to SWA I was like "why are we doing it like this". I talk to some people in training in a diplomatic way and they told me it would cost SWA extra money. So now I think mmmmmm must save us money.

Can any SWA guy or gal tell me how many software versions we have in the FMC? I think it is 12. This had to do with what ever was coming off the line at the time. It was cheaper to do it this way, I think.
 
Here's the routine, cowboy boots shined, long sleeve shirt tucked in under the braided black belt- full feathered hat hung in most visible location, dinner jacket hanging nicely, perform 90% of preflight tests while standing at attention in the jumpseat area, FO waiting to get by, sandwiched between passengers purposely rolling their bags over pilot toes and the FA while getting provisioned. Strap yourself in at the waist (which is never complete until that center cock belt is clicked and pulled nice and tight-) door locked, FO waiting on the before push check, ops agent waiting on the push, gun out and holstered, FO thoroughly briefed about the top 7 hijacking scenarios, THEN, and ONLY then- Shoulder harness UNDER THE EPAULETTES.
Keeps them nice and bright for years-
This is the only way real pilots prepare to fly.


Ky.BrownBourbn said:
Well, there you go, blame it on American, because the Southwest founding fathers in flight ops, Were doing everything they could to copy the AA operation including those white bars on epaulets! Nothing like wearing white bars with a seatbelt covered in 20 years of dirt, grime and someone's lunch. Oh well, on with a new topic!

Damn Americans! ;)

Later,
KBB
Click to expand...
 
waveflyer said:
Here's the routine, cowboy boots shined, long sleeve shirt tucked in under the braided black belt- full feathered hat hung in most visible location, dinner jacket hanging nicely, perform 90% of preflight tests while standing at attention in the jumpseat area, FO waiting to get by, sandwiched between passengers purposely rolling their bags over pilot toes and the FA while getting provisioned. Strap yourself in at the waist (which is never complete until that center cock belt is clicked and pulled nice and tight-) door locked, FO waiting on the before push check, ops agent waiting on the push, gun out and holstered, FO thoroughly briefed about the top 7 hijacking scenarios, THEN, and ONLY then- Shoulder harness UNDER THE EPAULETTES.
Click to expand...


I'm going to go quietly into the Lav, Tase myself, then fall thrashing and twitching out of the door into the galley.
 
I always thought dirty old stripes meant.....you've been doing this a spell and that you are not fresh out of new hire/acquire class.
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom