CitationAir Ceases Sales of Fractional Jet Shares

[realityman]

Curious to know some details.

If you hate unions, that's cool.

But not being from CA, could someone enlighten me as to what the union did, specifically, to cause CA to fail? Did you guys bargain for, and receive, some exhorbitant payscale that wasn't sustainable? Go on strike?

So what happened that the union is taking the blame for these developments at CA?

I'm not asking for a back-and-forth about what the union is doing NOW, for or against the pilots/company. Just want to know what the union did to cause CA to fail.

Thanks to anyone who replies without flaming.

 

[RCR5]

Specifics have not been officially discussed as far as I know. Until that time, you will have to wait.

No flame intended here, but most people don't need to be hit by a bus to know it will hurt.

 

[realityman]

I'm not asking for details about furloughs or anything like that.

Having been through it in the past myself, I know that losing your job is painful.

But some on here seem to be blaming the union for this failure. Just wondering what the union did to bring about these circumstances. That's all.

 

[blueridge71]

Shut down plans for 2012 are posted on our union site. As I don't know if that comes from anything remotely close to official, I won't post here, but would ask if any CA pilots have heard anything official. A sad situation at best. Good luck to all affected.

Strange. I haven't seen any "shut down plans" on the union site.

 

[Pervis]

Strange. I haven't seen any "shut down plans" on the union site.

Someone started a thread on the NJA site. Front page still. I hope it's wrong.

 

[rigger]

Curious to know some details.

If you hate unions, that's cool.

But not being from CA, could someone enlighten me as to what the union did, specifically, to cause CA to fail? Did you guys bargain for, and receive, some exhorbitant payscale that wasn't sustainable? Go on strike?

So what happened that the union is taking the blame for these developments at CA?

I'm not asking for a back-and-forth about what the union is doing NOW, for or against the pilots/company. Just want to know what the union did to cause CA to fail.

Thanks to anyone who replies without flaming.

As has been said here already, it is one of many items that pushed the car over the bridge. You and I both know that unions ALWAYS increase costs and reduce margins, there are studies after studies showing the numbers. The zealots will argue this but Hey I just read where bumbles chief budget guy says they gave a balanced budget....there will be bamabots on here telling you it's true....

As was told in the road shows by the president and many others before the vote be careful what you wish for...things can get worse, law of unintended consequences, etc etc. you did not need to be a rocket scientist to read the tea leaves to how rough the business was, so what do the super smart pilots do.....stop any chance of reviving the company economy and create an entire new company division funded by the company to go after themselves.....this is what the union did as soon as it got voted in. Not saying the union was not needed by the things the company was doing but am saying just like adding new taxes there comes a point where people and companies say screw it we are done.....it's the laffer curve....it's real and working.

They voted a union, they got a union, the company actually does sooner what it was thinking about already ( if this happens, or this happens we can do this, or this) it's how business works.....contingency plans.

 

[realityman]

Okay, thanks for the reply.

(See? I'm not here to argue. Just wondering what the reasoning was)

 

[The Dude Abides]

As has been said here already, it is one of many items that pushed the car over the bridge. You and I both know that unions ALWAYS increase costs and reduce margins, there are studies after studies showing the numbers. The zealots will argue this but Hey I just read where bumbles chief budget guy says they gave a balanced budget....there will be bamabots on here telling you it's true....

As was told in the road shows by the president and many others before the vote be careful what you wish for...things can get worse, law of unintended consequences, etc etc. you did not need to be a rocket scientist to read the tea leaves to how rough the business was, so what do the super smart pilots do.....stop any chance of reviving the company economy and create an entire new company division funded by the company to go after themselves.....this is what the union did as soon as it got voted in. Not saying the union was not needed by the things the company was doing but am saying just like adding new taxes there comes a point where people and companies say screw it we are done.....it's the laffer curve....it's real and working.

They voted a union, they got a union, the company actually does sooner what it was thinking about already ( if this happens, or this happens we can do this, or this) it's how business works.....contingency plans.

Thanks, Professor! Right as usual.

 

[The Dude Abides]

"Finally, support your Union and pay your dues. Regardless if you are to be furloughed or to remain, your best hope for a
worthwhile future at CitationAir is with a Union and a Collective Bargaining Agreement that legally sets forth your wages,
benefits and working conditions tailored to whatever business model the Company assumes. It is also the best way to
enhance the possibility of recall of furloughed pilots back to CitationAir."


Yeah, so forget the Obama economy and the fact it is the worst we have had in our lifetime. Forget the fact that the majority of businesses have been treading water due to these economic times the past several years, including Citation Air, Netjets, ect..

How did that union vote work out for us? How bout that union.....yeah! Brought a quick demise to a company that would have made it without one just fine and had been doing so. Now what do we have? NO JOBS! Thank you Teamsters.

I wish there were a way to find out who voted in the union and furlough them first. They deserve it.

Keep paying your dues.....what a joke!

I did!!!! Furlough first? Maybe, maybe not! Feel free to PM me.

 

[The Dude Abides]

If your in the bottom 120 tell your union to suck it up and pay your dues on your behalf! There will be no coming back to this company so a furlough LOA will be useless and you still have no contract and won't for over 1-2 more years ( if ever) who needs your thousand bucks more you???? Or HOFFA???? Simple stuff...but the I love unions at all cost zealots will poo poo me cause this is not treating your brothers with respect...they will tell you you gotta stick together! ( as long as your Azz is on the block and they are not) remember they will not be getting you a job, paying you wages while on furlough, or helping pay your bills....you will have to do this yourself! But they will tell you they will negotiate a contract loa for furlough and you won't be able to do that without them......but the last time 2 years ago there was no union no contract and the company treated us very well...... Funny I see no need to pay a penny anymore!

Then don't, and fade into the sunset!

 

[gunfyter]

If the pilot shortage comes ... people (especially SICs) will be leaving the fracs for the airlines. Would be nice to get recalled, rather than fly in the middle east or Africa to regain currency.

 

[jtf]

The shortage will be at the regionals if AA gets the proposed scope they are looking for. That alone would cut thousands of mainline jobs and move them to 86 seat "regionals". Spooky times for those on the low ends of seniority lists. Good luck CA guys and gals.

 

[BentOver]

The shortage will be at the regionals if AA gets the proposed scope they are looking for. That alone would cut thousands of mainline jobs and move them to 86 seat "regionals". Spooky times for those on the low ends of seniority lists. Good luck CA guys and gals.

agree 100%...... Then watch for the other legacies to cry about how American has gotten their costs down through BK and they also need to relax scope/get costs in line....... I'm hoping there is some legacy hiring but definitely not holding my breath.. American's scope outcome is gonna have ripple effects throughout the legacy airlines...

 

[Narrow Bridge]

"Finally, support your Union and pay your dues. Regardless if you are to be furloughed or to remain, your best hope for a worthwhile future at CitationAir is with a Union and a Collective Bargaining Agreement that legally sets forth your wages,
benefits and working conditions tailored to whatever business model the Company assumes. It is also the best way to enhance the possibility of recall of furloughed pilots back to CitationAir."

What was it they said in Good Fellas, F... You Pay Me? The Union doesn't give a crap about any of you. All they want is your money. CA is now infected with cancer and Cessna is has chosen chemotherapy and radiation.

To the guys at Flex and Avant, here is proof of what you get when the 1108 comes a knockin.

 

[dime line]

"Finally, support your Union and pay your dues. Regardless if you are to be furloughed or to remain, your best hope for a worthwhile future at CitationAir is with a Union and a Collective Bargaining Agreement that legally sets forth your wages,
benefits and working conditions tailored to whatever business model the Company assumes. It is also the best way to enhance the possibility of recall of furloughed pilots back to CitationAir."

What was it they said in Good Fellas, F... You Pay Me? The Union doesn't give a crap about any of you. All they want is your money. CA is now infected with cancer and Cessna is has chosen chemotherapy and radiation.

To the guys at Flex and Avant, here is proof of what you get when the 1108 comes a knockin.

I forgot how much the company cares about its employees!