CitationAir Ceases Sales of Fractional Jet Shares

[rigger]

Curious to know some details.

If you hate unions, that's cool.

But not being from CA, could someone enlighten me as to what the union did, specifically, to cause CA to fail? Did you guys bargain for, and receive, some exhorbitant payscale that wasn't sustainable? Go on strike?

So what happened that the union is taking the blame for these developments at CA?

I'm not asking for a back-and-forth about what the union is doing NOW, for or against the pilots/company. Just want to know what the union did to cause CA to fail.

Thanks to anyone who replies without flaming.

As has been said here already, it is one of many items that pushed the car over the bridge. You and I both know that unions ALWAYS increase costs and reduce margins, there are studies after studies showing the numbers. The zealots will argue this but Hey I just read where bumbles chief budget guy says they gave a balanced budget....there will be bamabots on here telling you it's true....

As was told in the road shows by the president and many others before the vote be careful what you wish for...things can get worse, law of unintended consequences, etc etc. you did not need to be a rocket scientist to read the tea leaves to how rough the business was, so what do the super smart pilots do.....stop any chance of reviving the company economy and create an entire new company division funded by the company to go after themselves.....this is what the union did as soon as it got voted in. Not saying the union was not needed by the things the company was doing but am saying just like adding new taxes there comes a point where people and companies say screw it we are done.....it's the laffer curve....it's real and working.

They voted a union, they got a union, the company actually does sooner what it was thinking about already ( if this happens, or this happens we can do this, or this) it's how business works.....contingency plans.

 

[realityman]

Okay, thanks for the reply.

(See? I'm not here to argue. Just wondering what the reasoning was)

 

[The Dude Abides]

As has been said here already, it is one of many items that pushed the car over the bridge. You and I both know that unions ALWAYS increase costs and reduce margins, there are studies after studies showing the numbers. The zealots will argue this but Hey I just read where bumbles chief budget guy says they gave a balanced budget....there will be bamabots on here telling you it's true....

As was told in the road shows by the president and many others before the vote be careful what you wish for...things can get worse, law of unintended consequences, etc etc. you did not need to be a rocket scientist to read the tea leaves to how rough the business was, so what do the super smart pilots do.....stop any chance of reviving the company economy and create an entire new company division funded by the company to go after themselves.....this is what the union did as soon as it got voted in. Not saying the union was not needed by the things the company was doing but am saying just like adding new taxes there comes a point where people and companies say screw it we are done.....it's the laffer curve....it's real and working.

They voted a union, they got a union, the company actually does sooner what it was thinking about already ( if this happens, or this happens we can do this, or this) it's how business works.....contingency plans.

Thanks, Professor! Right as usual.

 

[The Dude Abides]

"Finally, support your Union and pay your dues. Regardless if you are to be furloughed or to remain, your best hope for a
worthwhile future at CitationAir is with a Union and a Collective Bargaining Agreement that legally sets forth your wages,
benefits and working conditions tailored to whatever business model the Company assumes. It is also the best way to
enhance the possibility of recall of furloughed pilots back to CitationAir."


Yeah, so forget the Obama economy and the fact it is the worst we have had in our lifetime. Forget the fact that the majority of businesses have been treading water due to these economic times the past several years, including Citation Air, Netjets, ect..

How did that union vote work out for us? How bout that union.....yeah! Brought a quick demise to a company that would have made it without one just fine and had been doing so. Now what do we have? NO JOBS! Thank you Teamsters.

I wish there were a way to find out who voted in the union and furlough them first. They deserve it.

Keep paying your dues.....what a joke!

I did!!!! Furlough first? Maybe, maybe not! Feel free to PM me.

 

[The Dude Abides]

If your in the bottom 120 tell your union to suck it up and pay your dues on your behalf! There will be no coming back to this company so a furlough LOA will be useless and you still have no contract and won't for over 1-2 more years ( if ever) who needs your thousand bucks more you???? Or HOFFA???? Simple stuff...but the I love unions at all cost zealots will poo poo me cause this is not treating your brothers with respect...they will tell you you gotta stick together! ( as long as your Azz is on the block and they are not) remember they will not be getting you a job, paying you wages while on furlough, or helping pay your bills....you will have to do this yourself! But they will tell you they will negotiate a contract loa for furlough and you won't be able to do that without them......but the last time 2 years ago there was no union no contract and the company treated us very well...... Funny I see no need to pay a penny anymore!

Then don't, and fade into the sunset!

 

[gunfyter]

If the pilot shortage comes ... people (especially SICs) will be leaving the fracs for the airlines. Would be nice to get recalled, rather than fly in the middle east or Africa to regain currency.

 

[jtf]

The shortage will be at the regionals if AA gets the proposed scope they are looking for. That alone would cut thousands of mainline jobs and move them to 86 seat "regionals". Spooky times for those on the low ends of seniority lists. Good luck CA guys and gals.

 

[BentOver]

The shortage will be at the regionals if AA gets the proposed scope they are looking for. That alone would cut thousands of mainline jobs and move them to 86 seat "regionals". Spooky times for those on the low ends of seniority lists. Good luck CA guys and gals.

agree 100%...... Then watch for the other legacies to cry about how American has gotten their costs down through BK and they also need to relax scope/get costs in line....... I'm hoping there is some legacy hiring but definitely not holding my breath.. American's scope outcome is gonna have ripple effects throughout the legacy airlines...

 

[Narrow Bridge]

"Finally, support your Union and pay your dues. Regardless if you are to be furloughed or to remain, your best hope for a worthwhile future at CitationAir is with a Union and a Collective Bargaining Agreement that legally sets forth your wages,
benefits and working conditions tailored to whatever business model the Company assumes. It is also the best way to enhance the possibility of recall of furloughed pilots back to CitationAir."

What was it they said in Good Fellas, F... You Pay Me? The Union doesn't give a crap about any of you. All they want is your money. CA is now infected with cancer and Cessna is has chosen chemotherapy and radiation.

To the guys at Flex and Avant, here is proof of what you get when the 1108 comes a knockin.

 

[dime line]

"Finally, support your Union and pay your dues. Regardless if you are to be furloughed or to remain, your best hope for a worthwhile future at CitationAir is with a Union and a Collective Bargaining Agreement that legally sets forth your wages,
benefits and working conditions tailored to whatever business model the Company assumes. It is also the best way to enhance the possibility of recall of furloughed pilots back to CitationAir."

What was it they said in Good Fellas, F... You Pay Me? The Union doesn't give a crap about any of you. All they want is your money. CA is now infected with cancer and Cessna is has chosen chemotherapy and radiation.

To the guys at Flex and Avant, here is proof of what you get when the 1108 comes a knockin.

I forgot how much the company cares about its employees!

 

[hogbody]

deleted

 

[hogbody]

Really?

Narrow Bridge wrote: "...The Union doesn't give a crap about any of you. All they want is your money...."

Really? First: The union consists of the pilots -- the majority voted to organize, so explain to us how the pilots don't give a crap about themselves.
Second: If you were involved in your union's activities you would know how much they really do care.
Third: The leadership of IBT1108 are all active line pilots, volunteering their time and resources for no compensation at all.
You already knew all this, so why do you come on this board and make accusations to the contrary?

 

[OPECJet]

The average line pilot knows little about the makeup of the union. They see the most visible portion of it, and the part of it is not the guy flying the line.

 

[rigger]

Narrow Bridge wrote: "...The Union doesn't give a crap about any of you. All they want is your money...."

Really? First: The union consists of the pilots -- the majority voted to organize, so explain to us how the pilots don't give a crap about themselves.
Second: If you were involved in your union's activities you would know how much they really do care.
Third: The leadership of IBT1108 are all active line pilots, volunteering their time and resources for no compensation at all.
You already knew all this, so why do you come on this board and make accusations to the contrary?

Are you really this stupid....I mean come on no one is this brain numb. It must suck to be manipulated this much, the union is not the pilots, they are the face you see and hear from cause the union needs people like you to carry the flag into battle but you have zero input into the IBT they my friend are the Union, they spend your money, they support thier candidates, they write the rules for you, they determine how much you pay, and they determine your punishment when you dont pay. Try not paying and see if the CA union guys come after you or if the IBT threatens you with Legal proceedings. as for compensation Rick is being compensated as are the other guys in the actual IBT they rely on idiots like JH, MG, RF and others to spend thier time and energy and money making the issues issues and rallying the troops.....its all manipulation....and you have been manipulated.....

 

[rigger]

I forgot how much the company cares about its employees!

Well ya I agree with you here the company has always cared way more about me than Hoffa and the rest of the UNION goons controlling the IBT. The company actually payed me money, the IBT took money. The company actually gave me time off when I needed it for sickness and for family issues did not dock my pay, the IBT wanted the money no matter what. The company actually paid me to take vacation and not be at work, the IBT still wanted the money. The company actually gave me a choice if I did not like the companies rules then I could leave and no harm done, but the IBT told me if I did not like thier rules I still had to pay or else they would force the company to terminate me.....yep that evil company.... Gave me a job, paid me what I agreed too, allowed me time with my family, paid for a type certificate (2 actually), gave me training, Provided me paid vacation time. The Union promised me everything, provided me nothing yet and threatened to have me fired........who is bad here?????? Sucks to be this wrong dont it!

 

[dime line]

Well ya I agree with you here the company has always cared way more about me than Hoffa and the rest of the UNION goons controlling the IBT. The company actually payed me money, the IBT took money. The company actually gave me time off when I needed it for sickness and for family issues did not dock my pay, the IBT wanted the money no matter what. The company actually paid me to take vacation and not be at work, the IBT still wanted the money. The company actually gave me a choice if I did not like the companies rules then I could leave and no harm done, but the IBT told me if I did not like thier rules I still had to pay or else they would force the company to terminate me.....yep that evil company.... Gave me a job, paid me what I agreed too, allowed me time with my family, paid for a type certificate (2 actually), gave me training, Provided me paid vacation time. The Union promised me everything, provided me nothing yet and threatened to have me fired........who is bad here?????? Sucks to be this wrong dont it!

And now who is about to sh.. can you?

 

[rigger]

And now who is about to sh.. can you?

Which is OK, they lived up to what they said they would do. Business changed so the company changed with it. They own the job I don't I and you have no right to a job.

But I tell ya what if the Union BS was not around maybe I would not be s hit canned cause there would be non of this nonsense of I was hired first so I get to stay....no we would be in the real world and your actual performance would dictate your working there or not. Ya I'd rather not be fired but hey it is what it is. I know there are many guys that should be fired before many other guys in this company, and if the company did that they would be in a better place, but that's not the system in place....what I signed up for however so no bitterness just reality.

But I tell ya one thing, this attitude I have enables me to get another flying gig before others writing and hoping the union and that attitude will get them one!

 

[Praetorian]

Which is OK, they lived up to what they said they would do. Business changed so the company changed with it. They own the job I don't I and you have no right to a job.

But I tell ya what if the Union BS was not around maybe I would not be s hit canned cause there would be non of this nonsense of I was hired first so I get to stay....no we would be in the real world and your actual performance would dictate your working there or not. Ya I'd rather not be fired but hey it is what it is. I know there are many guys that should be fired before many other guys in this company, and if the company did that they would be in a better place, but that's not the system in place....what I signed up for however so no bitterness just reality.

But I tell ya one thing, this attitude I have enables me to get another flying gig before others writing and hoping the union and that attitude will get them one!

How exactly do you think your “performance” would be evaluated? Wow Rigger makes nice landings so he must not be furloughed. Is that your contention? In reality what your advocating is a system where a$$-kissing rules the day. I can almost hear your ideal manager, “Rigger, drop to both and gobble to the hairline.” And you would undoubtedly reply, “Oh yes sir master.”

I expect the “attitude” you have will indeed garner you a flying gig. I expect to see you licking your masters boot ramp-side soon.

Meanwhile union pilots (95% of all of us) will, with honor and integrity, continue the work of advancing and protecting the piloting profession.

 

[BentOver]

furloughed from a Union carrier and wouldn't have it any other way......I considered myself a good service provider to our customers, and didn't have to kiss any a$$ to do so....Just did my job the best I could without having to bend over

 

[Praetorian]

furloughed from a Union carrier and wouldn't have it any other way......I considered myself a good service provider to our customers, and didn't have to kiss any a$$ to do so....Just did my job the best I could without having to bend over

Right on Brother. As for me, I'd find another line of work before I'd bend and scrape like Rigger.

Don't pull a Rigger.