CitationAir Ceases Sales of Fractional Jet Shares

[hogbody]

deleted

 

[hogbody]

Really?

Narrow Bridge wrote: "...The Union doesn't give a crap about any of you. All they want is your money...."

Really? First: The union consists of the pilots -- the majority voted to organize, so explain to us how the pilots don't give a crap about themselves.
Second: If you were involved in your union's activities you would know how much they really do care.
Third: The leadership of IBT1108 are all active line pilots, volunteering their time and resources for no compensation at all.
You already knew all this, so why do you come on this board and make accusations to the contrary?

 

[OPECJet]

The average line pilot knows little about the makeup of the union. They see the most visible portion of it, and the part of it is not the guy flying the line.

 

[rigger]

Narrow Bridge wrote: "...The Union doesn't give a crap about any of you. All they want is your money...."

Really? First: The union consists of the pilots -- the majority voted to organize, so explain to us how the pilots don't give a crap about themselves.
Second: If you were involved in your union's activities you would know how much they really do care.
Third: The leadership of IBT1108 are all active line pilots, volunteering their time and resources for no compensation at all.
You already knew all this, so why do you come on this board and make accusations to the contrary?

Are you really this stupid....I mean come on no one is this brain numb. It must suck to be manipulated this much, the union is not the pilots, they are the face you see and hear from cause the union needs people like you to carry the flag into battle but you have zero input into the IBT they my friend are the Union, they spend your money, they support thier candidates, they write the rules for you, they determine how much you pay, and they determine your punishment when you dont pay. Try not paying and see if the CA union guys come after you or if the IBT threatens you with Legal proceedings. as for compensation Rick is being compensated as are the other guys in the actual IBT they rely on idiots like JH, MG, RF and others to spend thier time and energy and money making the issues issues and rallying the troops.....its all manipulation....and you have been manipulated.....

 

[rigger]

I forgot how much the company cares about its employees!

Well ya I agree with you here the company has always cared way more about me than Hoffa and the rest of the UNION goons controlling the IBT. The company actually payed me money, the IBT took money. The company actually gave me time off when I needed it for sickness and for family issues did not dock my pay, the IBT wanted the money no matter what. The company actually paid me to take vacation and not be at work, the IBT still wanted the money. The company actually gave me a choice if I did not like the companies rules then I could leave and no harm done, but the IBT told me if I did not like thier rules I still had to pay or else they would force the company to terminate me.....yep that evil company.... Gave me a job, paid me what I agreed too, allowed me time with my family, paid for a type certificate (2 actually), gave me training, Provided me paid vacation time. The Union promised me everything, provided me nothing yet and threatened to have me fired........who is bad here?????? Sucks to be this wrong dont it!

 

[dime line]

Well ya I agree with you here the company has always cared way more about me than Hoffa and the rest of the UNION goons controlling the IBT. The company actually payed me money, the IBT took money. The company actually gave me time off when I needed it for sickness and for family issues did not dock my pay, the IBT wanted the money no matter what. The company actually paid me to take vacation and not be at work, the IBT still wanted the money. The company actually gave me a choice if I did not like the companies rules then I could leave and no harm done, but the IBT told me if I did not like thier rules I still had to pay or else they would force the company to terminate me.....yep that evil company.... Gave me a job, paid me what I agreed too, allowed me time with my family, paid for a type certificate (2 actually), gave me training, Provided me paid vacation time. The Union promised me everything, provided me nothing yet and threatened to have me fired........who is bad here?????? Sucks to be this wrong dont it!

And now who is about to sh.. can you?

 

[rigger]

And now who is about to sh.. can you?

Which is OK, they lived up to what they said they would do. Business changed so the company changed with it. They own the job I don't I and you have no right to a job.

But I tell ya what if the Union BS was not around maybe I would not be s hit canned cause there would be non of this nonsense of I was hired first so I get to stay....no we would be in the real world and your actual performance would dictate your working there or not. Ya I'd rather not be fired but hey it is what it is. I know there are many guys that should be fired before many other guys in this company, and if the company did that they would be in a better place, but that's not the system in place....what I signed up for however so no bitterness just reality.

But I tell ya one thing, this attitude I have enables me to get another flying gig before others writing and hoping the union and that attitude will get them one!

 

[Praetorian]

Which is OK, they lived up to what they said they would do. Business changed so the company changed with it. They own the job I don't I and you have no right to a job.

But I tell ya what if the Union BS was not around maybe I would not be s hit canned cause there would be non of this nonsense of I was hired first so I get to stay....no we would be in the real world and your actual performance would dictate your working there or not. Ya I'd rather not be fired but hey it is what it is. I know there are many guys that should be fired before many other guys in this company, and if the company did that they would be in a better place, but that's not the system in place....what I signed up for however so no bitterness just reality.

But I tell ya one thing, this attitude I have enables me to get another flying gig before others writing and hoping the union and that attitude will get them one!

How exactly do you think your “performance” would be evaluated? Wow Rigger makes nice landings so he must not be furloughed. Is that your contention? In reality what your advocating is a system where a$$-kissing rules the day. I can almost hear your ideal manager, “Rigger, drop to both and gobble to the hairline.” And you would undoubtedly reply, “Oh yes sir master.”

I expect the “attitude” you have will indeed garner you a flying gig. I expect to see you licking your masters boot ramp-side soon.

Meanwhile union pilots (95% of all of us) will, with honor and integrity, continue the work of advancing and protecting the piloting profession.

 

[BentOver]

furloughed from a Union carrier and wouldn't have it any other way......I considered myself a good service provider to our customers, and didn't have to kiss any a$$ to do so....Just did my job the best I could without having to bend over

 

[Praetorian]

furloughed from a Union carrier and wouldn't have it any other way......I considered myself a good service provider to our customers, and didn't have to kiss any a$$ to do so....Just did my job the best I could without having to bend over

Right on Brother. As for me, I'd find another line of work before I'd bend and scrape like Rigger.

Don't pull a Rigger.

 

[rigger]

Right on Brother. As for me, I'd find another line of work before I'd bend and scrape like Rigger.

Don't pull a Rigger.

Never in my life have I bent over and never will.....has worked very well for me thus far! but guys please in the real world, the world where you go to an office every day, and the world that you must perform and standout above the crowd,,,,the world most pilots have no clue what it is like. You are judged by an evil manager and must do well or you are either fired, moved or demoted.....we pilots have been insulated from this and frankly it has hurt an industry...sure some kis assers get through....but they are spotted eventually but for the most part the creme really does float up from the bottom and the rest flounder......this is the reason Unions do well.... it takes regular nothing special guys and gals and says they are equel with the standout guys just because they have been there longer......Ahhhhh sorry all it means is that they have been thier longer...... not that they are anything special....for any company to really excel you gotta create the guys that actually excel.....Unions cannot and do not create this......they are a stae of being like everyone else no one is special.....this has and always will fail!!!!

Kiss ass never...but do better and more than most of my company peers your damn right......and frankly this is why I am always picked to do more and be more responsible....but at the end of the day because of the IVE BEEN HERE LONGER CROWD...im still furloughed and the deadbeat slacker is sitting ready to upgrade......weird business... not like the real world!!!!!!

 

[rigger]

How exactly do you think your “performance” would be evaluated? Wow Rigger makes nice landings so he must not be furloughed. Is that your contention? In reality what your advocating is a system where a$$-kissing rules the day. I can almost hear your ideal manager, “Rigger, drop to both and gobble to the hairline.” And you would undoubtedly reply, “Oh yes sir master.”

I expect the “attitude” you have will indeed garner you a flying gig. I expect to see you licking your masters boot ramp-side soon.

Meanwhile union pilots (95% of all of us) will, with honor and integrity, continue the work of advancing and protecting the piloting profession.

Ive met very very few Union folk with Honor or integrity......most are self serving gimmee gimeee crowd......and when the Union they work for is falling apart they always....not sometimes always yell the loadest and say!!!!! well show em we will shut em down....then you see them driving a cab but they showed them.......Yes I will get and have already gotten a gig but its cause I can do All sorts of things I can do safety, I can Audit, I can Actually manage, I know P&L statements, I can Run 135 or 121 or part 91, I can negotiate contracts and can instruct and teach and etc etc......I have made myself valuable as more than a pilot and more inmportantly more than a damn union pilot....If had a dime for every pilot that said "If I only knew something other than how to be a pilot....Id be rich! Well people are in the position they are in cause they continue to do the things that keep them their.....stop being a union pilot and be an everything pilot.....come on into the real world.....you may like it.....or not cause its hard!!!!!

 

[imacdog]

Rigger maybe you can explain the consistently high rating that NetJets owners give to their pilots. Considering they have no honor and integrity and all that.

 

[BentOver]

Someone's just ticked they are getting furloughed and are blaming everything he can find.. Union, company, the system....

Fact is, seniority based jobs are the way it is...... With so many pilots how do you suopose one would "stand out from the crowd?" Are your landings judged, or the cleanliness of your a/c?? Tell us how, with NOT having a central work location, how is mister manager of flight ops supposed to know who is doing a good job...? (customer surveys/reports are not a great measure because not all customers take the time to fill comment cards out even if they were extremely happy with their flight.)

Fact is, you may be doing a fine job..But your nothing special compared to countless others.. There are many that are doing a fine job, have great landings (or whateever criteria you want to use as a barometer)... It's an impossibility to judge. UNLESS of course you are the one constantly asking how high to jump..And then you'd be an a$$ kisser, even though you say your not.

If ya never worked at an airline lemme clue you in...it's how it works... I've been furloughed twice in the last 11 years..Never have I blamed the UNion's, or the system... Management is in charge of rounding up business, on some level they have failed, whether it is from a severe economic downturn or not.. I don't blame NJA management for the furlough... They lost tons of customers due to the recession.

 

[imacdog]

Rigger's definition of a good worker would be someone who never has the balls to say "No".

 

[Helmsalee]

Yeah Rigger, just for argument I'll say that you can do all those things. But can you spell, write in complete sentences? Do you know the difference between to, too and two? You come across as an uneducated person.

 

[Praetorian]

All sorts of things I can do safety, I can Audit, I can Actually manage, I know P&L statements, I can Run 135 or 121 or part 91, I can negotiate contracts and can instruct and teach and

kiss ass and turn a blind eye to outrageous treatment of my fellow pilots and think only of myself and credulously ignore the abuse that is handed down to my fellow pilots and foolishly believe that I can stand on my own two feet as an at-will employee and suck more a$$ and stroke my bosses ego and...

 

[gret]

kiss ass and turn a blind eye to outrageous treatment of my fellow pilots and think only of myself and credulously ignore the abuse that is handed down to my fellow pilots and foolishly believe that I can stand on my own two feet as an at-will employee and suck more a$$ and stroke my bosses ego and...

Do you really believe this stuff that you post? If so, you may want to talk to a professional.

 

[Praetorian]

Do you really believe this stuff that you post? If so, you may want to talk to a professional.

Yea that's right, I'm pro union so I must have mental health problems.

Que predictable retort...

 

[gret]

Yea that's right, I'm pro union so I must have mental health problems.

Que predictable retort...

Not talking about being pro union, just your vivid descriptions and opinions of people who don't share your enthusiasm quite as much.

Your three comments..."I can almost hear your ideal manager, “Rigger, drop to both and gobble to the hairline.” And you would undoubtedly reply, “Oh yes sir master.”..." suck more a$$"... "Meanwhile union pilots (95% of all of us) will, with honor and integrity, continue the work of advancing and protecting the piloting profession."…would seem better suited coming from a gang member or sophomore in high school than a “professional pilot”. Also where did you get your 95% figure and who asked you to take the lead in "advancing and protecting the piloting profession?"

Is this really how very pro union guys talk and think daily? If I was fence sitter regarding unions, this garbage would make me move far away as I wouldn’t want to be around questionable characters that conduct themselves this way. In other words, "you're stepping on your own p^ecker" & "p*ssing down your leg" with they way you expressing yourself in attacking others and "advancing and protecting the piloting profession".

 

[Praetorian]

Not talking about being pro union, just your vivid descriptions and opinions of people who don't share your enthusiasm quite as much.

Your three comments..."I can almost hear your ideal manager, “Rigger, drop to both and gobble to the hairline.” And you would undoubtedly reply, “Oh yes sir master.”..." suck more a$$"... "Meanwhile union pilots (95% of all of us) will, with honor and integrity, continue the work of advancing and protecting the piloting profession."…would seem better suited coming from a gang member or sophomore in high school than a “professional pilot”. Also where did you get your 95% figure and who asked you to take the lead in "advancing and protecting the piloting profession?"

Is this really how very pro union guys talk and think daily? If I was fence sitter regarding unions, this garbage would make me move far away as I wouldn’t want to be around questionable characters that conduct themselves this way. In other words, "you're stepping on your own p^ecker" & "p*ssing down your leg" with they way you expressing yourself in attacking others and "advancing and protecting the piloting profession".

I seem to recall the last time you and I were having an exchange on here you were calling me a "jackass". Ever think you are taking this annomous message board thing a bit to serious. "The conduct of a professional pilot." Really? Get over yourself.

 

[rigger]

Listen all, you may not like what I say and how I say it. The reality of the world is as everyone of us on here actually sees it. I'm not wrong in my opinion and neither are any of you. I happen to believe that being responsible for oneself and not needing anyone or thing(union) to help me represent me or tell me what to do when the crap hits the fan is the way to live, my opinion and my experience over 50 years is this works great for me. Others don't feel this way....OK.

I really don't give a damn about being furloughed, this will be 5 times I have worked in the airline, the frac, the corporate and private. I have owned my own business' and worked for many years outside the industry. So give me some credit as to what I have seen and experience I have being far older than most of you attacking me. As has been said unions in this industry are a needed fact....does not mean they don't suck, and does not mean they have not sucked a big part of the industry down, but as has also been said when you have no boss, and really have no skill any different than the guy nest to you how do you determine who gets a raise and who does not.....seniority is the only way I know of, but wether you will admit it or not this is about as socialist an idea as there is....we are all equal? Heck no we are not but the way the industry is set up it try's to force square pegs through the round hole.....That's not how the folks in corporate work, that not how the real world works ( outside union shops) and this is the problem, Unions breed antithipy and mundaneness because by working harder you get nothing more or nothing less. There is no incentive in the real world ( other than your own pride, and after 20 years of living this way I've seen most guys pride go away because even that won't help ) to do better.

As I've said you don't like what I say, but you know it is true. This is not taking away from unions as a needed wanted thing specially in aviation, but come on folks having people all be equal, the same,cookie cutter is not human nature.....and for those who attack my spelling, punctuation, sentence structure, etc

do you really care, or are you trying to make yourself feel better or smarter?

REMEMBER IT TAKES A SMALL MIND WHO CAN ONLY SPELL A NAME ONE WAY! Rip on boys!

 

[rigger]

As proof of concept here, I was on the hotel van and the guy driving ( an older than me guy) was telling us about his time at Eastern airlines. he was a pilot, Captain and loved the union ( his words) he told us all about how terrible management was, how awful the trips were, how the hotels were not up to snuff and how the union worked on all that for them.....he said without the union it would be so much worse than it was( I dunno sounds pretty bad to me) cause management did not care about them at all ( huh reoccurring theme here) he ten told us about the last gasps of the company and he said this.....We really showed um....we shut that damn place down!

Now here is a guy driving a hotel van when he should be retired, bragging about how the union showed the company...who the hell got hurt by this?

Read history folks, it's happenedbefore will happen again cause people believe this time is different.....it's not the unions know this and the companies know this. Remember folks the Union is nothing more than a company......same ideas about profit and loss...it's a business no different than the one you already work for ( who actually pays you)

 

[gunfyter]

Rigger,

About 20 years ago i asked some Eastern guys why they struck if they knew it would shut the company down. I was told that the company was going to be raped and shut down anyway. They knew it. It was the only way to stick a knife in Lorenzo on the way down.

 

[rigger]

Rigger,

About 20 years ago i asked some Eastern guys why they struck if they knew it would shut the company down. I was told that the company was going to be raped and shut down anyway. They knew it. It was the only way to stick a knife in Lorenzo on the way down.

No argument from me......did not say Lorenzo was not screwing with everyone not saying the Union was wrong. But I invite you to consider that the problems and labor issues at eastern began long before the idiot Lorenzo showed up. He just took an opportunity to screw with peoples lives and ran with it. But which is better having a job and then leaving on your terms or getting fired and being forced to not have a paycheck??? Each will answer that one their own way, neither is wrong. Its what works best for them and their family at the time. Cause at the end of the day there is no collective.....no matter how hard some want it to be so, there are individuals trying to be a collective (union) never ever works out well cause we are ALL individuals at heart (human nature)

 

[gunfyter]

I really feel terrible that this is happening to you guys. I know the feeling. Its happened to me before... I had 3 years of unemployment. I disagree that the union had any effect but I know the emotional swings something like this has.

A lot of people see the deal I have now and think I should be "rich". I should but be but its amazing how long it takes to recover from 3 years of unemployment... especially when you add in a couple of financial mistakes on the way... to compound the bad luck of unplanned unemployment.

Lets hope the YIPsters pilot shortage comes soon and we all wind up better off very soon.

 

[G4dude]

kiss ass and turn a blind eye to outrageous treatment of my fellow pilots and think only of myself and credulously ignore the abuse that is handed down to my fellow pilots and foolishly believe that I can stand on my own two feet as an at-will employee and suck more a$$ and stroke my bosses ego and...

Valium might improve your posting, Praetorian.

 

[G4dude]

Rigger,

About 20 years ago i asked some Eastern guys why they struck if they knew it would shut the company down. I was told that the company was going to be raped and shut down anyway. They knew it. It was the only way to stick a knife in Lorenzo on the way down.

These are the same union guys who rendered EAL so bloated and unprofitable that a Lorenzo would raid it because it was worth more dead than alive. So the union stuck it to the guy they themselves created. Ironic, don't you think?

 

[G4dude]

I really feel terrible that this is happening to you guys. I know the feeling. Its happened to me before... I had 3 years of unemployment. I disagree that the union had any effect but I know the emotional swings something like this has.

A lot of people see the deal I have now and think I should be "rich". I should but be but its amazing how long it takes to recover from 3 years of unemployment... especially when you add in a couple of financial mistakes on the way... to compound the bad luck of unplanned unemployment.

Lets hope the YIPsters pilot shortage comes soon and we all wind up better off very soon.

Amen to all that.

 

[gunfyter]

These are the same union guys who rendered EAL so bloated and unprofitable that a Lorenzo would raid it because it was worth more dead than alive. So the union stuck it to the guy they themselves created. Ironic, don't you think?

Darn those Polish unions that destroyed management in Poland and helped Reagan and the Pope defeat communism.