Qatar New Pilot Bond

[AGVMIA]

Will a current Qatar pilot please confirm the new bond repayment scheme? Are they actually deducting 1/2 of the training costs over 2 years? (Reimburse you after 3??). Thank you

 

[El Capitan]

Yes they are. Comes out 1000 bucks/mnth for 24 mths. If terminated they keep the cash. Unless you are desperate and unemployed stay home. Read on PPRUNE most unfortunately very true.

 

[Flyer1015]

So the salary increase (based on 70 blk hrs) from 7,100 to 8,100 USD will now be negated by punishing you for a bond?

Most bonds are just signed statements that you will stick around for 2-3 years, and if you leave, you have to pay a prorated amount back. WHY would they withold it out of your salary? $1000 over 24 months is 24,000 witheld, not earning any interest or not being able to invest in something usefull. This is a draconian policy, and for me, would be a dealbreaker.

 

[El Capitan]

As I mentioned, unless unemployed, broke or desperate STAY AT HOME!!! grass is definately not greener!

Cheers

 

[TMMT]

If pilots were not signing onto this deal and instead refusing their offers citing this wouldn't even exist.

Its like Regionals here, the reason they pay criminal wages is because there is an endless stream of folks will to work for those criminal wages.

Its simple, if folks would stand on principal and stop taking these jobs, this crap wouldn't even exist.

 

[Golden Falcon]

unfortunately TMMT, while i see your point, you're pissing into a fan...

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Most bonds are just signed statements that you will stick around for 2-3 years, and if you leave, you have to pay a prorated amount back. WHY would they withold it out of your salary?

A bond is an insurance policy of sorts, people are leaving as soon as they get their 500 on type to other well paid jobs even taking the hit on the bond because they still come ahead on the long run, so the companies that issue these bonds are getting more strict about issuing them, there are penalties associated with the payment of the bonds because of the number of claims.

 

[Flyer1015]

A bond is an insurance policy of sorts, people are leaving as soon as they get their 500 on type to other well paid jobs even taking the hit on the bond because they still come ahead on the long run, so the companies that issue these bonds are getting more strict about issuing them, there are penalties associated with the payment of the bonds because of the number of claims.

Most training bonds are non-contributory, and nothing is deducted or owed until you leave in a time less than the bond lenght. To simply take out the entire bond amount of 36,000 for 3 years at 1,000 a month is just plain crazy. It speaks volumes to how this airline operates. Emirates requires a 3-yr training bond, but you do not pay unless you leave. And, you do not lose anything out of your monthly salary for the bond amount. $1,000 a month that Qatar takes out is a LOT. Heck, that right there could be an expensive toy. Or money that could be used to pay for school, since Qatar covers only what? 1 kid? Or money that could be used to save for retirement, considering Qatar has no retirement scheme/fund? No wonder QR is now hiring more Second Officers than First Officers. Only SOs, mostly low timers off from piston and turboprop operations are going there now. While I once considered Qatar to be a place for viable employment, I cannot fathom going there now considering the facts of how these people run the airline. One look at a 5-minute video clip of CEO Al-Akbar makes me cringe!

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Don't know why you are so fixated on the sandpit Flyer, you should take a look at the entire picture.

 

[AGVMIA]

Most training bonds are non-contributory, and nothing is deducted or owed until you leave in a time less than the bond lenght. To simply take out the entire bond amount of 36,000 for 3 years at 1,000 a month is just plain crazy. It speaks volumes to how this airline operates. Emirates requires a 3-yr training bond, but you do not pay unless you leave. And, you do not lose anything out of your monthly salary for the bond amount. $1,000 a month that Qatar takes out is a LOT. Heck, that right there could be an expensive toy. Or money that could be used to pay for school, since Qatar covers only what? 1 kid? Or money that could be used to save for retirement, considering Qatar has no retirement scheme/fund? No wonder QR is now hiring more Second Officers than First Officers. Only SOs, mostly low timers off from piston and turboprop operations are going there now. While I once considered Qatar to be a place for viable employment, I cannot fathom going there now considering the facts of how these people run the airline. One look at a 5-minute video clip of CEO Al-Akbar makes me cringe!

First of all, the bond deduction is for 18 months, not 36, AND IT IS FULLY REFUNDED TO YOU at the end of the 36 INITIAL months. Think of it as a savings account, albeit forced on you. This is only a concern to people who don't plan to stay there the full 3 years. The deduction is $1,400 a month for 18 months ($25k), you get this $25k back after 36 months. Then no further bonds between aircraft movements.

If you can get in now, it is great time. It is still relative early in the growth phase, where as Emirates is farther along the growth phase and upgrades are slower.

 

[Flyer1015]

First of all, the bond deduction is for 18 months, not 36, AND IT IS FULLY REFUNDED TO YOU at the end of the 36 INITIAL months. Think of it as a savings account, albeit forced on you. This is only a concern to people who don't plan to stay there the full 3 years. The deduction is $1,400 a month for 18 months ($25k), you get this $25k back after 36 months. Then no further bonds between aircraft movements.

If you can get in now, it is great time. It is still relative early in the growth phase, where as Emirates is farther along the growth phase and upgrades are slower.

The point is, in your first 18 months, that's $25k less out of your pocket you can use to get stuff you need. A car, for example. Or to pay off loans at home. Let me ask you, how many other middle eastern airlines (that hire foreign pilots) force a salary deduction for the training bond? I can't think of any. The training bond is repayed in case you leave, prorated in duration. For QR to do what they have done, I think it goes to show that they have a significant amount of attrition for people within the 0-3 year mark. Most pilots that go for expat jobs can at least last the duration of 3-5 years. It seems QR is bleeding its current foreign pilot force. One way to forcefully keep one around is to ensure you withhold $1,400 per month from salary owed. The employee is therefore suckered into staying at least 18 months, to get their money earned paid out. To me, this rubs off as a desperate attempt to keep pilots, and it won't work. I won't fall for it. Instead of forcefully withholding earned salary for 18 months, how about they try and improve their pay/benefit package so people actually feel worthy to stay around? Why not? Because that will cost money. And what QR has done is the cheaper option.

 

[iluvetops]

This is the results of too many runners! Because of those people that have jumped the bonds now the rest pays for it!

The airlines have learned their lessons. So now who to blame?

 

[Flyer1015]

This is the results of too many runners! Because of those people that have jumped the bonds now the rest pays for it!

The airlines have learned their lessons. So now who to blame?

I still think it's the airline. Even the select few PO'ed Emirates pilots I know have all been there at least 3 years.

Perhaps QR has other issues that forces pilots to run away. School reimbursement covering only one kid. No retirement/pension scheme nor fund. How can any family man be able to accept employment when only one kid will be covered and no retirement scheme is offered? That makes it pretty crystal clear that Qatar doesn't want you long term, even though it's an open-ended contract. If you want to retain a pilot, make sure the pay and benefits are up to par with the competitors. So far, they are far below.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Open ended contracts in a place where people do a 100 yard dash in the middle of the night and the company finds out that they quit because they didn't show up to duty in the morning, don't really mean much!

 

[AGVMIA]

Does anyone know, with certainty and preferably a current pilot, if the bond is prorated, reduced by 1/36 every month? So if I understand correctly, if you stay 18 months, do you only owe 18 months left on bond? HOWEVER, since you had a deduction for the training bond for the first 18 months, does this mean you can technically leave with no further bond obligation?

 

[Flyer1015]

Open ended contracts in a place where people do a 100 yard dash in the middle of the night and the company finds out that they quit because they didn't show up to duty in the morning, don't really mean much!

LOL! Are you talking about "escaping" the country overnight in a hurry? Now that's just funny! Reminds me of the Air India Express Captain from NZ. While on layover in Abu Dhabi, he got a call to come into their headquarters due to some discrepancy in his logbook hours. This guy took a plane to India, and hopped the first flight to NZ. Innocent until proven guilty!

 

[xjhawk]

Well you can't do that when in Qatar, from what i hear is that you have your passport taken from you when you are off duty. That and you only have two exit visas a year. I will admit this is second hand info. But this is because of a law in Qatar and not a company policy. They have this for all foreign national workers, even high paid execs

 

[NEDude]

Well you can't do that when in Qatar, from what i hear is that you have your passport taken from you when you are off duty. That and you only have two exit visas a year. I will admit this is second hand info. But this is because of a law in Qatar and not a company policy. They have this for all foreign national workers, even high paid execs

Perhaps urban legend, but I have heard stories of guys leaving while on out of country layovers. Usually the preparation begins a month or two in advance by shipping small amounts of personal items home. Then on a layover in Europe or the USA they just don't show up for duty for the return flight to the sandpit.

 

[Flyer1015]

Well you can't do that when in Qatar, from what i hear is that you have your passport taken from you when you are off duty. That and you only have two exit visas a year. I will admit this is second hand info. But this is because of a law in Qatar and not a company policy. They have this for all foreign national workers, even high paid execs

I think that's urban legend. You get to keep your passport while in Qatar. And the two exit visas per year is true but a pilot can (and many do) obtain the multiple entry visa permit for their passports. It costs some decent coin (I forget how many Riyals) but many who travel back/forth end up paying for it because it's worth it.

 

[skier17]

A friend of mine was telling me about a law that states if you take an over-seas job, when you return to the USA you are not allowed to work for an operator that carries US Mail for something like 4 or 5 years. Can anybody confirm this or have any details about this law? It would be great to make some money over-seas for a few years, but I would hate to come back and not be able to get a job.