Delta is now looking at possible USAir Aquistion

[B-atch]

Dan- you do know that USAPA is the love child of the poster child for failed mergers, right? Care to fess up which union led that?

Not a "failed merger" A failed SLI, negotiated under ALPA and its "failed" merger policy. And so far USAPA has succeeded at keeping these TWO airlines apart. Hey Wave, if your so passionate about OUR ongoings at Airways, how about coming over. We are hiring. Or perhaps you prefer PHX? What say YOU?

 

[waveflyer]

I'm good on jobs- thx though
Usair hasn't failed as a business venture- thx to Loa 93
But it has for the airline pilot career.
Indisputably.

 

[54fighting]

DAL could act as a spoiler in this situation to prevent a LCC/AMR combination that would create another very large, low-cost competitor. AMR is probably less of a threat if it reorganizes on it's own and emerges as a smaller carrier. It's tough to say how much value LCC would bring to DAL but it gets rid of a competitor and prevents the LCC/AMR deal. I would guess that TPG was going to work in combination with LCC so it pretty much stops that combination as well. We should start to see how serious these other players are in the next year.

My thoughts exactly. I don't think you would ever see a DAL/AMR deal approved. However, with AMR in bankruptcy, they need to open up their books to any potential suitor. DAL gets a free peek. The LCC makes more sense as it eliminates an AMR/LCC hookup.

 

[Dan Roman]

Dan- you do know that USAPA is the love child of the poster child for failed mergers, right? Care to fess up which union led that?

Well trying to merge AmWest and USAir was going to be as difficult as any merger could possibly be. You would be hard pressed to find two seniority lists harder to mesh than those. AmWest was very young and USair probably had the oldest relative pilots, USAir was close to shutting down and AMWest saved their arse. It wasn't going to be easy and you certainly couldn't justify straight date of hire that put furloughee's ahead of active Captains. Especially since USAir was so close to shutting down.
Under ALPA they came to an agreement to accept a third parties binding arbitration. Probably the only reasonable thing to do given the huge disparities between the two airlines. So......under ALPA they came up with the only possible solution given the circumstances. It's under USAPA that they went down the road of extreme self interest, unrealistic expectations and the resulting degradation of the profession at USAir.

ALPA's not perfect because individual pilot groups are not perfect. But they are tasked with trying represent the entire profession. They have done an admirable job and contributed more to our profession than any CAPA union has, simple as that.

 

[On Your Six]

My thoughts exactly. I don't think you would ever see a DAL/AMR deal approved. However, with AMR in bankruptcy, they need to open up their books to any potential suitor. DAL gets a free peek. The LCC makes more sense as it eliminates an AMR/LCC hookup.

The DL/LCC matchup doesn't work either. Way too much East Coast overlap. The only part that might be plausible without much Gov't scrutiny would be acquiring the West portion IMO.



Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[Flybywire44]

The DL/LCC matchup doesn't work either. Way too much East Coast overlap. The only part that might be plausible without much Gov't scrutiny would be acquiring the West portion IMO.



Godspeed!


The OYSter

If both DAL & LCC are flying full planes than how much over lap can their be? Will a reduction of 50 seats play into this? Maybe a frequency of service could be maintained without the need to replace a retiring regional fleet?

US Airways has huge control over northeast domestic routes. Delta may want these routes to secure feed for their New York investments. NYC airports are max'd out and Delta may turn to PHL for relief?

US Airways could certainly feed American's international operations with its high passenger loads. LCC/AMR could spoil DAL's NYC initiative!

 

[ackattacker]

If both DAL & LCC are flying full planes than how much over lap can their be? Will a reduction of 50 seats play into this? Maybe a frequency of service could be maintained without the need to replace a retiring regional fleet?

Sure there's not a lot of excess capacity anywhere anymore. But in this sense we're talking traffic percentages in an out of certain east coast markets, which means a combined DAL & LCC would have a very large percentage of all such traffic and would raise serious anti-trust issues even though from a business perspective it may make sense. Even just a simple slot-swap wasn't a sure thing to get past the regulators so a merger would be a nightmare. AMR is not as big on the east-coast domestic market so makes it easier to argue that a combined company doesn't eliminate all competition in any one market.

 

[Scoot 11]

Usair hasn't failed as a business venture- thx to Loa 93
But it has for the airline pilot career.
Indisputably.

+1
Sorry Wave. Edited just slightly.

 

[Flying the Line]

FYI - Word is TPD is working with British Airways to make the $$$ work as a foreign owned airline (AA). I know, I know. Wrong tread.

 

[Bill Nelson]

I heard Delta was taking the "West" routes but wanted the "East pilots." They thought the crazy Easties would fit in better with OYS and the Gen.

The good Ole' West pilots will go with AMR or whoever buys the East shuttle.

 

[On Your Six]

If both DAL & LCC are flying full planes than how much over lap can their be? Will a reduction of 50 seats play into this? Maybe a frequency of service could be maintained without the need to replace a retiring regional fleet?

US Airways has huge control over northeast domestic routes. Delta may want these routes to secure feed for their New York investments. NYC airports are max'd out and Delta may turn to PHL for relief?

US Airways could certainly feed American's international operations with its high passenger loads. LCC/AMR could spoil DAL's NYC initiative!

Sure, both are flying full planes, but one is making a heck of a lot more profit than the other. The overlap between AA and US is a lot less than US and DL, because AA just doesn't have bases in the same areas, whereas US and DL are
next door neighbors in ATL/CLT and PHL/DCA/NYC.

Wait, did you just say PHL would RELIEVE our NYC ops? Really? PHL is a hole. No way. US does NOT own the NE, if anything Jetblue does. US mainly flies E170s out of DCA and PHL, has some Europe flying (25% what DL has in JFK), and CLT brings in a fraction of what ATL brings to DL. Not even close.


AA/US would spoil DL's NYC plans? DL already has more slots at LGA than both of you combined, and the DL JFK hub is twice as big as AA's. AA used to fly many flights to the Caribbean from JFK, but that has been given to Jetblue. AA's Europe flying to has shrunk, and that nice terminal at JFK seems empty most of the time. And you said US could feed AA's Europe flights? At JFK? With which slots? JFK is slot controlled in the afternoon and early evening. JB and DL, along with many INTL airlines, take up most of the JFK flying during those time periods.

So, you know how DP hasn't really worked on getting his employees a new
contract, and the same goes for AA and their 5 year contract talks to no avail, but you think these guys running those airlines could be the winning combo to spoil DL's better organized plans? Think about what that means, say it to yourself again, and then don't laugh. You give them way too much credit. Those two haven't proven anything. Don't overestimate your chances. Merging two companies who can't seem to get it together by themselves just makes a bigger mess.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[On Your Six]

I heard Delta was taking the "West" routes but wanted the "East pilots." They thought the crazy Easties would fit in better with OYS and the Gen.

The good Ole' West pilots will go with AMR or whoever buys the East shuttle.

I think we should get the East pilots and NO planes. Just the pilots. They are probably all like Sulley.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[JetMonkey]

The west has 122 airframes (mainline), not 70. Down from 147 pre merger.

 

[MELVIS]

I guess I missed the whole "Delta is the best" speech the first time. I'm all caught up now. Thanks again. Way to be Airmen!