Delta flight diverts on champagne request

[zonejumper]

I would venture to say that 95% of the time a FA-passenger situation escalates, it's the FA who does it.

I'd venture to say you are wrong, and are one of those guys who avoids backing up a crew member at all costs. God forbid you should stick your neck out. I'm not surprised though, as you are a young regional guy.

Zone, you assume too much about what I think.

,

No, I'm just very perceptive and can read between the lines.



Oh, and I'm still waiting for the answer on how you feel about a fellow pilot being assaulted?
My original post forgot one major point. Do any of you actually think physically assaulting ANYONE for whatever reason (unless physically assaulted first) is okey-dokey? If so, I am speechless. That lesson was taught in the first day of pre-school, if not by your parents. NEVER touch anyone, EVER.
If you feel you've been mistreated by a FA, just do the mature thing and the thing that won't get you diverted, arrested, and/or prosecuted. Write an email or call the airline. Pretty simple if you ask me, but many of you have another agenda. I still wonder if you show your disdain and vitriol towards YOUR FAs. If not, I will again call you cowards and hypocrites. Pretty sad and pathetic, boys.

 

[waveflyer]

I answered Zone- iPhone Mis- touch posted my first sentence too soon-

 

[zonejumper]

I answered Zone- iPhone Mis- touch posted my first sentence too soon-

Just read it. I don't defend bad FAs, and I've been a passenger on some flights where I was mistreated or ignored. I've also worked with FAs with attitudes. However, you can't deny that waaaay too many guys (on FI, at least) are way off and automatically throw FAs under the bus., especially the older ones. It's another one of the age discrimination issues rearing its ugly head. You also have to agree that EVERY industry, especially customer-service ones, has bad apples.

For those of you geniuses who think ALL foreign airlines FAs are heads and shoulder above the rest haven't traveled the globe too much. I fly LH several times a month and they aren't the warm and fuzzy type. They are professional and are there to enforce FARs, plain and simple. That's not to say they don't go above and beyond. It's just not an automatic thing. You can't be a jackass passenger and expect to get anything more than the minimum. If you're polite and do what they request, they will show their appreciation. If you act the fool, you'll be dealt with..harshly!
I'm also tired of the "Asian and Middle-East airlines" argument. I'm sure you all realize (and shame on you if you don't) that Middle eastern countries don't respect females and they have to be subservient to men. Any of you want your women working for them? Asian FAs are always smiling and that's great, BUT guess what. Asian PASSENGERS know how to behave. You really can't compare airlines that are from countries that have very different cultural norms and values. Again, it's more of a "I like foreign airlines because they don't have FAs who are ollllddd and unpleasant to ogle."

 

[waveflyer]

I think you make excuses for your peers, zone. Most of us fly all over the world and have a whole lot of experience on many airlines. We aren't ignorant.
Bottom line, none of us were on either plane- and all are making gross generalizations

 

[zonejumper]

I think you make excuses for your peers, zone. Most of us fly all over the world and have a whole lot of experience on many airlines. We aren't ignorant.
Bottom line, none of us were on either plane- and all are making gross generalizations

True, but didn't the Japanese guy plead guilty? And, what exactly was it HIS business that the FA was talking to the passenger BEHIND him? Article said he had 4 drinks, PLUS champagne. Alcohol is at the root of much of passenger bad behavior, just like at sporting events. Call me crazy, but I'm willing to bet most of us didn't sign on to be a FA to be a bouncer and be abused and physically assaulted by drunks. This is a big reason why I'd be hard-pressed to go back to working with "regular" pax again. I love me my charter pax!

 

[labbats]

I always love how a 5 year FA feels superior to a regional pilot. The pilot had to pass multiple tests and pay tens of thousands of dollars to get his/her job... you had to show up to a job fair. Hey, if that pilot had decided to become a FA instead of a pilot then they'd be senior to you.

Being a Flight Attendant can be a thankless job. That's a shame. However, it shouldn't be a career. What advantage is there to a 10 year FA over a 3 year FA?

I enjoy most Flight Attendants I work with. If I had to guess I'd put the number at 90%. But to reiterate my first point the 90% wouldn't create a downward spiral of negativity that ended in a shouting match. More often than not the verbally abusive 10% are the ones asking for someone to be removed.

I'm sure you're in the 90% range and are just defending your own. Just realize that if one of us waded into a Flight Attendant forum we'd be playing defensive too.

 

[waveflyer]

True, but didn't the Japanese guy plead guilty? And, what exactly was it HIS business that the FA was talking to the passenger BEHIND him? Article said he had 4 drinks, PLUS champagne. Alcohol is at the root of much of passenger bad behavior, just like at sporting events. Call me crazy, but I'm willing to bet most of us didn't sign on to be a FA to be a bouncer and be abused and physically assaulted by drunks. This is a big reason why I'd be hard-pressed to go back to working with "regular" pax again. I love me my charter pax!

No argument with that- I think most of us are reacting off the first diverted flight that wasn't physical and guessing that one might have been averted with a better FA. But it's an ignorant guess at best, and that's part of the frustration- we often feel obligated to have our FAs back- but many aren't using great judgement when they ask that of us- only to find out later we backed our crew, but they were wrong. That gets frustrating when we're stuck behind the door and can't assess anything for ourselves.

 

[shon7]

...Asian PASSENGERS know how to behave. You really can't compare airlines that are from countries that have very different cultural norms and values. Again, it's more of a "I like foreign airlines because they don't have FAs who are ollllddd and unpleasant to ogle."

So basically Asian carriers are doing well cause they have passengers who "know how to behave." I wonder why you aren't running your own airline. With a mind that is able to provide logic like that you could be making millions.

 

[B727FA]

I think you make excuses for your peers, zone. Most of us fly all over the world and have a whole lot of experience on many airlines. We aren't ignorant.

I think, Wave, Zone's point is, we're not either. And here, and elsewhere, the assumption usually is, "It's the FA's fault b/c they're argumentative, old, lazy, hate management, hate women/men, hate pilots, hate pax, fat, PMSing, fill-in-the-blank."

Bottom line, none of us were on either plane- and all are making gross generalizations

But yet, it was the FA's fault! That was the first reaction!

It reminds me of the cartoon that showed in the first frame dated "Past" the boy in the class room with the parents and teacher. The adults are looking at "Tommy" (who's looking nervous) and saying, "We're to discuss Tommy's behavior." The second frame is dated "Today" we see the parents with Tommy (who's looking smug) and looking at the teacher and saying, "We're here to discuss Tommy's behavior."

The person with the "authority" (I hesitate to use that term for the back-lash I'll receive) is now the bad guy. The teacher is failing Tommy. The FA is "out of control." The cops are abusing everyone. And so on...

When I was a union rep I'd always tell my members, "Comply, then complain. We can always address it when we're in the right bringing the complaint forward; it's a lot easier than having to defend your possible insubordination."

Grieve it; don't gripe.

 

[B727FA]

I always love how a 5 year FA feels superior to a regional pilot. The pilot had to pass multiple tests and pay tens of thousands of dollars to get his/her job...

I always love how a pilot feels superior to an FA period.

So you bought your job/quals. EVERYONE pays their dues one way or another. Why do pilots seem to feel they're the only one who "pays" to get where they are (and that makes them better?)?

Regardless if you go to college, military, flight school, massage school, prison, fast food or retail, we ALL have done something that makes us uniquely qualified to be hired and do our jobs. There are jobs where a peg can fit a hole, and as much as pilots love to insist, Inflight is one of them, it's not. Simply because a pilot says, "It never should have been a career and a trained monkey could do your job" doesn't make it true.

 

[B727FA]

...I think most of us are reacting off the first diverted flight that wasn't physical and guessing that one might have been averted with a better FA. But it's an ignorant guess at best,

Thank you for the continued acknowledgement that all the arm-chair crewing going on here is guess work. With that said, there were at least TWO other FA's on the a/c. We don't know if they talked to them. We don't know if they all concurred. We just don't know. I'll take down a haughty FA any day--they make me look bad. But I'm not going to immediately assume that a "better" FA could have averted this just b/c the prevailing winds are to "blame the FA."

and that's part of the frustration- we often feel obligated to have our FAs back- but many aren't using great judgement when they ask that of us- only to find out later we backed our crew, but they were wrong. That gets frustrating when we're stuck behind the door and can't assess anything for ourselves.

Let's be VERY clear here: the CA made the decision to land. NOT the FA. Those decisions are made at a far higher paygrade than ours. And at DL the CA has a minimum of 5 groups of resources at his/her disposal by which to make a decision. We need to realize FA's are REALLY not that powerful. All we can do is convey the situation (for better or worse) and respond to the CA's direction. Why hasn't anyone questioned the CA's decision?

 

[skidbuggy]

.... We need to realize FA's are REALLY not that powerful.

So do they.

 

[B727FA]

For ref: it was a 757 with a crew of 4. The seniority of the crew (I'm not going to post here for their privacy) indicates to me this wasn't a case of rogue "crews gone wild."

 

[B727FA]

So do they.

Oh for God's sake...enough!:nuts:

 

[zonejumper]

Oh for God's sake...enough!:nuts:

Thank you, fellow FA. It's extremely frustrating to have the same response to all threads about a FA/passenger issue. It's ALWAYS the FAs fault--and it's ALWAYS assumed it's a cat-rancher. Hmmm, I guess I didn't realize that older women are bitter hags and the young ones all possess sunny dispositions.
If some of these "men" want to be honest, they should just say they think anyone over 35 should retire and only allow young, hot FAs... Yeah, that would sure solve all FA/pax issues. uke: