Pilot Pay Rates

[bptham]

Hey all,
I haven't posted on here in years but I have a question for everyone on the corporate side of things. I have been a regional airline pilot for about 6 years now with about 5700 hours as an FO and 4900 in jets. I may have a corporate opportunity flying for a part 91 operation that operates a G5, a citation excel? and a King Air 90. I am going to meet with the Chief pilot soon and I was trying to find out a good salary range to operate as PIC for all these aircraft? Thanks in advance...

 

[landlover]

part 91 flying 3 different types. I would think 200k would be in the ball park.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Hey all,
I haven't posted on here in years but I have a question for everyone on the corporate side of things. I have been a regional airline pilot for about 6 years now with about 5700 hours as an FO and 4900 in jets. I may have a corporate opportunity flying for a part 91 operation that operates a G5, a citation excel? and a King Air 90. I am going to meet with the Chief pilot soon and I was trying to find out a good salary range to operate as PIC for all these aircraft? Thanks in advance...

Well....is there a reason they are looking at a Regional F/O?...its usually not that they think you are a great guy (Im sure you are) but usually that means they dont want to pay for an experienced PIC.

Qualified local G5 PICs are not unemployed in my area and make between 150-200K pretty easily.

They know what you make, and will likely throw an 80K number at you. Not saying that you shouldn't take it...but the idea that you will make G5 PIC pay is pretty laughable. It may still be a good opportunity, depending on the job. We have hired regional pilots at the 110-125K range as SICs, but we only hired people who were PICs on their RJs.

Realistically shoot for a number in the King Air PIC/Jet SIC range with a clear understanding that your pay will increase as you become a Jet PIC.

Good Luck!

 

[Jetdriver69]

They will pay as little as you will accept, fair or not. I fly two types including the G5 and it makes no difference pay-wise in my company if you also fly smaller equipment. Most insurance will frown on flying three turbine types as it can lead to negative habit transfer, but it can be done. Depending on location, I wouldn't expect more than NBAA average for starting PIC for a G5 type, the other aircraft might warrant some more money in addition if you are lucky.

 

[bptham]

Well....is there a reason they are looking at a Regional F/O?...its usually not that they think you are a great guy (Im sure you are) but usually that means they dont want to pay for an experienced PIC.

Qualified local G5 PICs are not unemployed in my area and make between 150-200K pretty easily.

They know what you make, and will likely throw an 80K number at you. Not saying that you shouldn't take it...but the idea that you will make G5 PIC pay is pretty laughable. It may still be a good opportunity, depending on the job. We have hired regional pilots at the 110-125K range as SICs, but we only hired people who were PICs on their RJs.

Realistically shoot for a number in the King Air PIC/Jet SIC range with a clear understanding that your pay will increase as you become a Jet PIC.

Good Luck!

All of you guys, thank you. This was some good advice. I might be putting the cart before the horse here but I'm just trying to get an idea of what I should be looking at salary wise. The only reason they are looking at me is word of mouth, my buddy introduced me to chief pilot. Hell, I may get there and think he's a jerk and he may do the same to me. Funny thing is, things are going good at work and I will upgrade this year but this corporate gig may be a chance to get more for doing less and hopefully being home more. Thanks again...

 

[semperfido]

Look, they aren't going to pay a Regional FO what an experienced G5 PIC should make. It just isn't going to happen unless it's your Father-in -law that is doing the hiring. if it sounds to good to be true, then it probably is. 80K would be reasonable.

 

[Bleeds On]

So are you saying they're hiring straight to PIC or you just want to know the PIC numbers? I'm with what the others have said, around $80K, depending on region, for SIC. I doubt you'd jump to the G5 in the first year(or five) so look at what 560XL/King Air guys are getting in the area. But I've been wrong before....

 

[Gulfstream 200]

All of you guys, thank you. This was some good advice. I might be putting the cart before the horse here but I'm just trying to get an idea of what I should be looking at salary wise. The only reason they are looking at me is word of mouth, my buddy introduced me to chief pilot. Hell, I may get there and think he's a jerk and he may do the same to me. Funny thing is, things are going good at work and I will upgrade this year but this corporate gig may be a chance to get more for doing less and hopefully being home more. Thanks again...

There's lots of guys they can look at, 99% likely they have a pay issue. But thats good for you as there exists no bigger pay issue than a regional F/O...

I may be biased as a career Corporate guy, but I'd consider it no matter what. You will likely be getting PIC time (at least in the King Air/Citation) right away and if you were a G5 PIC within 3-4 years you can then shop for a very good job (if you need to) and make more money and have a better lifestyle then you will ever get as a RJ Captain.....of course, maybe you want the airline career (more scheduled?)

To me one of the biggest benefits to corporate is that your ratings, experience, connections, and reputation are all portable. Get laid off or want a change of scenery? - no problem...no starting at the bottom of a list. Even during the slowest of times there were no long term unemployed G5/GLEX/DA900 type Captains out of work in my area.

Either way, again, Good Luck to ya!

 

[340drvr]

Not trying to be a smart a$$, but, in general, "being home more" and G5 don't usually go together.

 

[2EASYPilot]

Midwest department, we started our last (several years ago) FO on Falcon equipment @ 80,000 with a six month and 1 year performance bump. Maybe that will give you an idea of what to ask for. The numbers the others are posting would be a good starting point with your experience.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Not trying to be a smart a$$, but, in general, "being home more" and G5 don't usually go together.

If they are crewed with more than just 2 pilots I bet you are home more than a regional pilot or most smaller corp a/c....staffing is critical. A 2 pilot G5 can be a real disaster.

I am home FAR more flying a properly crewed GLEX/Falcon than I ever was flying a Learjet. Its rare that Lears/Citations etc are crewed with more than 2 pilots....and I dont care if its Peoria or Paris, away is away (to me) I'm guessing I have averaged 5-8 overnights/month over the last 10 years...and only about 45 in 2011. I dont know what an airline pilot comes in at.

Of course, its always good to know how much International a job does. 5-8 day+ trips become the norm once out of the country. Do this with 2 pilots and possibly more than one owner (I have seen it) -- these guys do 200+ overnights a year. Ouch.

 

[semperfido]

Not trying to be a smart a$$, but, in general, "being home more" and G5 don't usually go together.

I am home a lot. Just saying. You have to look at the particulars.

 

[AA717driver]

Some busy months but, in general, I worked a lot fewer days in corporate.

On topic: Take the pay (assuming it's more than you make now...) and the type and experience. As a RJ FO or even CA, you're one of thousands. As a GV PIC (eventually) you are a relatively rare commodity.

TC

 

[bptham]

Hey everyone, I have an update. I had the interview. They have a be350, citation xl, and a g200. Chief pilot wants me to fly the king air and citation. Had a 2.5 hour interview about 50/50 aviation and just bsing about family and stuff. He took me to lunch and I tried to pay but he insisted on paying. We looked at all three airplanes and we didn't talk pay until right before I left. He asked me how much I made at the airline and I told him. They have interviewed 4 and I'm the only one that is local. He's ready to hire now and I should hear either way early to mid next week. Thanks again for all the info...

 

[Jetdriver69]

Sounds like a great gig, good luck with the selection. I was told in my interview 6 years ago that we can train you to fly any of our airplanes and we really don't care if you have experience in type. But we do care if you turn out to be a pain in the a** to fly with and have zero personality. Experience or recommendations may get you in the door, but the fact that the hiring board thinks you may be good to work with for the next 20 years really counts for a lot. Most corporate outfits are way too small to have one or two jackasses screwing up the work dynamic.

 

[bptham]

I think you are correct. I've been talking to a couple of the pilots that have medicaled out working for this outfit and it sounds more like they are concerned that every one gets along and to not hire jerkoffs. Well see, thanks again...

 

[N5139]

. We have hired regional pilots at the 110-125K range as SICs, but we only hired people who were PICs on their RJs.

Certainly no disrespect intended, but I can't for the life of me see how being a PIC on an RJ versus an *experienced* SIC makes one iota of difference in ability. The original poster has been at it long enough for most pilots to be a competent PIC, but seniority and industry movement hasn't provided him the opportunity to sit 24" to the left.

As someone who has flown in both airline and charter environments, I see very little difference between the two positions after a certain amount of time (unless the pilot is flat-out incompetent and has no leadership skills, which is usually readily apparent after an interview/tech eval).

Again, I certainly don't intend for this to be disrespectful, as I'm sure you weren't trying to be. Within the business jet industry, I just find it funny when some Beechjet captain looks down on me because I'm new to the company/not a PIC yet, despite the fact that I crossed the Atlantic 6 times in the last two months in a G-ride.

 

[Dumbluck]

Once its your signature on the release, you'll understand. The weight of responsiblity is real, if you don't feel it you should reconsider your profession.

 

[N5139]

Once its your signature on the release, you'll understand. The weight of responsiblity is real, if you don't feel it you should reconsider your profession.

Been there and done that at another operation. Still can't understand the ego some gain over an additional stripe. If you're a conscientious FO/SIC, you should be feeling that weight also. Having worked on enforcement actions in a previous role, I can tell you that the enforcement decision process doesn't solely focus on the left seat.

Edited to add: I am agreeing with you about the weight... it's nothing to shake a stick at. That being said, I think that some PICs devalue their SICs, putting more weight on themselves than necessary. While this very well might be the only course of action when dealing with sub-1,500 hour pilots, I think it's not the best approach when dealing with guys who obviously know what they're doing.

Regardless, I see your point - I guess I'm just frustrated for those I've evaluated in the training environment that would make great CAs had they interviewed a week earlier.

 

[Dumbluck]

I agree with everything you said. I Don't think becoming a CA should be and ego boost. I think it should be considered an accomplishment, maybe a sense of pride stemming from the trust you have earned by whomever gave you the oppurtunity. But, the pride and accomplishment should be tempered with respect for the responsiblity that has been added.

I understand PIC's devalueing SIC all to well, CRM to some captains is a direct challenge to their authority. I hate it when I see that, its pointless, unsafe and causes dissention in the piot group.

And to your last point, timing and seniority, yeah, but what are ya gonna do. I think the countdown is 335 days until the age 65 rule guys finally hit the golf course.
Hang in there, the stagnation will end soon. I hope.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Certainly no disrespect intended, but I can't for the life of me see how being a PIC on an RJ versus an *experienced* SIC makes one iota of difference in ability. The original poster has been at it long enough for most pilots to be a competent PIC, but seniority and industry movement hasn't provided him the opportunity to sit 24" to the left.

As someone who has flown in both airline and charter environments, I see very little difference between the two positions after a certain amount of time (unless the pilot is flat-out incompetent and has no leadership skills, which is usually readily apparent after an interview/tech eval).

Again, I certainly don't intend for this to be disrespectful, as I'm sure you weren't trying to be. Within the business jet industry, I just find it funny when some Beechjet captain looks down on me because I'm new to the company/not a PIC yet, despite the fact that I crossed the Atlantic 6 times in the last two months in a G-ride.

No disrespect taken!..(its a message board)

There is, however, a BIG difference in the two positions (PIC vs SIC)

Anyone can cross the Atlantic making HF reports in the right seat of a "G Ride" (Gulfsteam?) and anyone can learn to fly one by simply attending FSI. Reality is an initial is hardly a blip in a budget.

BUT...most places cant/dont want to teach someone how to make hard decisions. We can send that Beechjet PIC to FSI and 4 weeks later he's still a Captain, just pushing different switches.

My only point was all SIC time on a resume is a huge red flag to most people I know. I dont care if its a King Air, a Citiation, or a G850...most people just want to see that you have made the hard decisions, answered the angry boss in the proper way, stuck out your neck and cancelled a critical trip because it was the right thing to do, made an MEL work, etc etc...

No hard and fast rules in this business, just my observation.

 

[N5139]

No disrespect taken!..(its a message board)

There is, however, a BIG difference in the two positions (PIC vs SIC)

Anyone can cross the Atlantic making HF reports in the right seat of a "G Ride" (Gulfsteam?) and anyone can learn to fly one by simply attending FSI. Reality is an initial is hardly a blip in a budget.

BUT...most places cant/dont want to teach someone how to make hard decisions. We can send that Beechjet PIC to FSI and 4 weeks later he's still a Captain, just pushing different switches.

My only point was all SIC time on a resume is a huge red flag to most people I know. I dont care if its a King Air, a Citiation, or a G850...most people just want to see that you have made the hard decisions, answered the angry boss in the proper way, stuck out your neck and cancelled a critical trip because it was the right thing to do, made an MEL work, etc etc...

No hard and fast rules in this business, just my observation.

I completely agree with you, and wanted to emphasize an insight you made: there is a HUGE difference between 121 regional PICs and 135/Corp. 91 PICs. I'm certainly not going to start a "which is harder" debate (both have their challenges), but having done both I personally think that there is more responsibility on the 135/91 side. Everything was practically handed to me in the 121 world, whereas there's a lot less "back-up" at my current operation. All of the issues you mentioned are rarely even thought about in the regional 121 world (at least in my experience), making the difference between the two seats less.

I guess I was just venting in the respect that some PICs treat SICs like lesser human beings, when in reality they have great potential had circumstances been different (no growth, furloughs, a new plane, etc.). From someone who was captain-qualified, I guess I'm seeing a new side to things in the 135 world: some (definitely not all) 135 captains see your epaulets and assume you're lacking something that they embody, and therefore don't trust your input.

As far as your example with the Beech CA. I do see your point, but I also think there's some merit in having relevant operational experience in the area which you wish to work. After all, if you've been flying in radar contact for years and your longest stage length is 700NM, who is to stay that you won't end up hating 8-hour flights and jump ship.

All in all, you guys certainly make sense. I just wish other factors were taken into consideration (check airman, sim, etc.) over gobs of left seat time. That's me being prejudice, though!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

All in all, you guys certainly make sense. I just wish other factors were taken into consideration (check airman, sim, etc.) over gobs of left seat time. That's me being prejudice, though!

Luckily most departments dont have "F/O's" who get dumped on by "Captains"...I know if we ever sensed the "I'm the Captain, you're MY Copilot" attitude its gets hammered severely right away. It just makes for a terrible workplace. Im not talking PIC/SIC roles, as roles are important...but nobody needs the douuchebag CAPTAIN that sits inside sipping coffee while his boy puts the covers on the plane, dumps the lav, and gets the bags off. Not how it works in the least.

No worries, I think all things are considered, experience is experience.....but of course rule #1 in most of corporate is your connections/network.

At the end of the day, someone internally vouching that you are a good pilot and will fit in with the insanity in the average department goes a long, long way, its just a good idea to have the other boxes (decent PIC time, clean background etc) checked.