The American crawl is back....

[PBRstreetgang]

American guys, you are taxiing too fast. When management goes to the bought and paid for court system and negates the hard bargained contracts via a pen stroke, and when finally released for self help the fricken POTUS send them back to work, its time too burn the ship to the waterline. Everybody else sniveling about taxi speeds really needs to look in the mirror. SWA guys are enjoying the fruits of collective bargaining using other carriers pay scale, even if AA wasn't directly used, they leveraged UAL, DAL, CAL et al's payscales through pattern bargaining. The AA guys have been doing some very heavy lifting and don't need greedy priks whining in their ears about impeding their quest for riches, AA guys are looking for a taste too, you should be blocking for them.

 

[Tripower455]

American guys, you are taxiing too fast. When management goes to the bought and paid for court system and negates the hard bargained contracts via a pen stroke, and when finally released for self help the fricken POTUS send them back to work, its time too burn the ship to the waterline. Everybody else sniveling about taxi speeds really needs to look in the mirror. SWA guys are enjoying the fruits of collective bargaining using other carriers pay scale, even if AA wasn't directly used, they leveraged UAL, DAL, CAL et al's payscales through pattern bargaining. The AA guys have been doing some very heavy lifting and don't need greedy priks whining in their ears about impeding their quest for riches, AA guys are looking for a taste too, you should be blocking for them.

Been there, done that. I always made it a point to not inconvenience OALs (took vectors to let traffic pass us, always told ground that we "needed a minute" etc.) in my quest to make up for what management was stealing from me, because screwing up their day didn't help my cause one iota.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

It is patently obvious, Southwest rode the coat tails of every Legacy up the pay scales, and now is poised to ride back down with them. GK is prepping the ground work, beware...

 

[SWA Bubba]

ME wishing for Cameron Diaz??!! Now THAT'S funny!!!!! :laugh:

Hey, -I- know you're a woman and not gay, so you probably aren't wishing for a tryst with Cameron Diaz. However, I'm by myself on an overnight, so tonight, in my mind, you WILL be....

Bubba

 

[Tripower455]

It is patently obvious, Southwest rode the coat tails of every Legacy up the pay scales, and now is poised to ride back down with them. GK is prepping the ground work, beware...

What does that have to do with the crAAwl?

 

[PBRstreetgang]

What does that have to do with the crAAwl?

If you cannot make the connection, don't worry, be happy.

 

[zonejumper]

Hey, -I- know you're a woman and not gay, so you probably aren't wishing for a tryst with Cameron Diaz. However, I'm by myself on an overnight, so tonight, in my mind, you WILL be....

Bubba

:blush:

Okaaaaaay. I'm hoping that worked out for you......

(At least it's refreshing to see someone on this site actually reads for comprehension and knows how to connect the dots. Are you sure you're a male?? )

 

[Tripower455]

If you cannot make the connection, don't worry, be happy.

If things got bad enough here that I had to resort to doing that, I would do it the same way I did it 20 years ago: With consideration for my fellow professionals, since I am not an immature, selfish prick and, even if I were, slowing others down does nothing to help my cause, .

 

[PBRstreetgang]

If things got bad enough here that I had to resort to doing that, I would do it the same way I did it 20 years ago: With consideration for my fellow professionals, since I am not an immature, selfish prick and, even if I were, slowing others down does nothing to help my cause, .

You had best hope that the AA guys get some parity in BK, because they will be one of the groups that GK uses to compare your future pay. Do you really think GK is gonna continue to pay you more than some widebody pilots make? The only reason you continue to get paid what you do is because you scurry around in your 73s like squirrels collecting nuts for winter and make him money, and when the number/margin gets too small? Love,LUV whatever, he loves you like a bad case of the clap, you are necessary to move his paying passengers about the country. When the majority of the AA pilots retire in the next 10 years, they will have a young(seniority wise) list, and you will be facing the squeeze in a very uncomfortable manner, competition, is a biaotch. While I don't wish this for anyone it doesn't take a Harvard MBA to see the obvious. Until every pilot in this country gets on the same page we will all take turns at the top and then rotate back to the bottom, big business always wins, look at the Dow...

 

[SWA Bubba]

Well, since this thread stopped being about AA crawling, something else caught my eye--

Fubi, earlier in this thread, it was alleged that you deny VA jumpseaters because they're non-union (page 9, post 125). Then you implied that it was true, even giving an example of non-union electricians not getting squat from IBEW folks (page 9, post 134). Is this true? Do you really deny VA jumpseaters for this reason? This is a serious question.

Bubba

 

[Tripower455]

You had best hope that the AA guys get some parity in BK, because they will be one of the groups that GK uses to compare your future pay. Do you really think GK is gonna continue to pay you more than some widebody pilots make? The only reason you continue to get paid what you do is because you scurry around in your 73s like squirrels collecting nuts for winter and make him money, and when the number/margin gets too small? Love,LUV whatever, he loves you like a bad case of the clap, you are necessary to move his paying passengers about the country. When the majority of the AA pilots retire in the next 10 years, they will have a young(seniority wise) list, and you will be facing the squeeze in a very uncomfortable manner, competition, is a biaotch. While I don't wish this for anyone it doesn't take a Harvard MBA to see the obvious. Until every pilot in this country gets on the same page we will all take turns at the top and then rotate back to the bottom, big business always wins, look at the Dow...

Again, what does this have to do with the crAAwl?

I've been in this business for over a quarter of a century. I am quite familiar with it's ups and downs. Again, what, exactly, is AA gaining by messing up the traffic flow at every airport they fly to? Do you think that their management gives a rats ass if they slow down DAL, SW, or any OAL?

I understand why they do the crAAwl, and as I've said, I've been in exactly the same situation in past life, BUT, I didn't involve any "innocents" in my quest. Period.

Feel free to respond with another off topic SW bash.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Again, what does this have to do with the crAAwl?

I've been in this business for over a quarter of a century. I am quite familiar with it's ups and downs. Again, what, exactly, is AA gaining by messing up the traffic flow at every airport they fly to? Do you think that their management gives a rats ass if they slow down DAL, SW, or any OAL?

I understand why they do the crAAwl, and as I've said, I've been in exactly the same situation in past life, BUT, I didn't involve any "innocents" in my quest. Period.

Feel free to respond with another off topic SW bash.

Again,
This isn't a SWA bash, its stringing the obvious together. I earned my first dollar flying a plane in 1986, and started in the 121 world shortly thereafter. The reason I say the crAAwl is valid is based on the reality of the RLA and ensuing difficulties that every person employed in the transportation endures. You equate AA guys taxiing slow to impeding your ability to earn money, greed plain and simple. The simple fact is, at many airports we all operate at, there is often only one taxiway to access the active runway, you propose that the AA guys look in the rearview so they don't impede you on your quest for cash, that's rich in its self. If you want to know whats wrong in this industry, look in the mirror, if you don't like what you see change its attitude. Greed is the foundation that many airline pilots base their careers on.

 

[waveflyer]

Ehh- pbr- that's one of swa's keys- our interests are aligned with the company's.

That said- getting some old fashioned peer pressure from other airlines can work both for and against you- delay other airlines and airports too much and it can put pressure on mgmt from all angles-
I tend to believe this is short sighted bc it can backfire easily and get that political pressure aimed directly at APA- which leads to things like Usair getting ordered to fly right by a judge, and AA getting ordered back to work, and loan guarantees denied= pensions cancelled bc a Texas gov turned president is still pissed about golden gooses and the summer of hell-
Our negotiations are POLITICAL. Something the ATA has well figured out, but line pilots generally have not. it's best to have the people on your side and it's a tough balance to strike-

 

[scoreboardII]

http://media.photobucket.com/image/dumb and dumber/greenaway55/dumb__dumber_.jpg?o=3

Again,
This isn't a SWA bash, its stringing the obvious together. I earned my first dollar flying a plane in 1986, and started in the 121 world shortly thereafter. The reason I say the crAAwl is valid is based on the reality of the RLA and ensuing difficulties that every person employed in the transportation endures. You equate AA guys taxiing slow to impeding your ability to earn money, greed plain and simple. The simple fact is, at many airports we all operate at, there is often only one taxiway to access the active runway, you propose that the AA guys look in the rearview so they don't impede you on your quest for cash, that's rich in its self. If you want to know whats wrong in this industry, look in the mirror, if you don't like what you see change its attitude. Greed is the foundation that many airline pilots base their careers on.

I equate taxxing slow to shooting yourself in the foot.

You really think AA management cares if the flight is delayed 5 minutes?

Guess what, they pad the flight leg 5 minutes next quarter. So then you taxi 5 minutes slower, then management adds another 5 to block time. You can't win, and all you are doing is adding to the cost of operations which cuts your goal off at the knee's.

Is there any wonder why they are in bankruptcy?

Greed is what makes a SWA pilot a SWA pilot supporting a profitable company. Foolishness is what makes the AA crawl unsupportable, and even less so when the cost of labor is washed in bankruptcy. You think those same crawling pilots will go back to "normal happy speed" when their pay takes a 25% hit? Nope, they'll try even more stupid behavior like running APU's all day instead of sucking it up, working harder and smarter, they'll work slower and dumb and dumber.

 

[Tripower455]

Again,
This isn't a SWA bash, its stringing the obvious together.

No it isn't, it's a SW bash.

I earned my first dollar flying a plane in 1986, and started in the 121 world shortly thereafter.

I'm a year ahead of you. What do I win?

The reason I say the crAAwl is valid is based on the reality of the RLA and ensuing difficulties that every person employed in the transportation endures.

I never said it wasn't valid, as I'VE DONE IT MYSELF. What I disagree with is messing with folks that have no dog in the fight. I didn't do it then, and I wouldn't do it now. It accomplishes nothing except pissing on a bunch of folks off that don't/can't affect the outcome one whit.

You equate AA guys taxiing slow to impeding your ability to earn money, greed plain and simple.

Really? They're taxiing slow, because they get paid by the minute and to make a statement to management. , They're padding their paycheck, while it takes money out of mine. Who's the greedy one?

The simple fact is, at many airports we all operate at, there is often only one taxiway to access the active runway, you propose that the AA guys look in the rearview so they don't impede you on your quest for cash, that's rich in its self.

I had no problems doing it for the years I was getting hosed by management. It's called SA, and it's a mark of professionalism. I would never knowingly impede another's progress if I had the choice.

If you want to know whats wrong in this industry, look in the mirror, if you don't like what you see change its attitude. Greed is the foundation that many airline pilots base their careers on.

LOL... Really? I am the problem? The closest I've ever coming to working for AA was riding their jumpseats. I've had no control whatsoever over their contract or any other part of their operation, yet, it's my fault that they're messed up. My best friend is an AA Capt, and he's never told me that I was to blame for what's going on at AA. Maybe he's just being nice.

How, exactly, is anything I've done in my career contributing to AA's current problems?

Why do you go to work? Is it the great hours, snappy uniform, unending adulation?

I go to work to make money. Period. If I didn't need the money, I would not go.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

No it isn't, it's a SW bash.

I'm a year ahead of you. What do I win?

Retirement a year ahead of me?

I never said it wasn't valid, as I'VE DONE IT MYSELF. What I disagree with is messing with folks that have no dog in the fight. I didn't do it then, and I wouldn't do it now. It accomplishes nothing except pissing on a bunch of folks off that don't/can't affect the outcome one whit.

You operate at how many airports? Really you follow AA planes everywhere you go?

Really? They're taxiing slow, because they get paid by the minute and to make a statement to management. , They're padding their paycheck, while it takes money out of mine. Who's the greedy one?

Not sure how they get paid, but I think the slow taxi is more about showing the company that they don't operate in a vacuum.

I had no problems doing it for the years I was getting hosed by management. It's called SA, and it's a mark of professionalism. I would never knowingly impede another's progress if I had the choice.

You make the assumption that they are purposefully taxiing slow in front you, for what reason?

LOL... Really? I am the problem? The closest I've ever coming to working for AA was riding their jumpseats. I've had no control whatsoever over their contract or any other part of their operation, yet, it's my fault that they're messed up. My best friend is an AA Capt, and he's never told me that I was to blame for what's going on at AA. Maybe he's just being nice.

Maybe he is being nice, everything every pilot does has the potential to affect every other pilot, CO 3407 didn't affect you, or did it, you get the same new rest rules we all do...

How, exactly, is anything I've done in my career contributing to AA's current problems?

Has your MEC ever used AA payscales for comparison? If so there you go, if not there you go.

Why do you go to work? Is it the great hours, snappy uniform, unending adulation?

Paycheck, and the office is nice

I go to work to make money. Period. If I didn't need the money, I would not go.

I as well as the AA guys might agree...

 

[Tripower455]

You operate at how many airports? Really you follow AA planes everywhere you go?

Your point?

Not sure how they get paid, but I think the slow taxi is more about showing the company that they don't operate in a vacuum.

Well, that's part of it, but I've been in several AA cockpits during the crAAwl, and they were doing for the added $$$$. That was years ago, maybe they're doing as a show of force now.

You make the assumption that they are purposefully taxiing slow in front you, for what reason?

I'm assuming? I've witnessed it, numerous times.

Maybe he is being nice, everything every pilot does has the potential to affect every other pilot, CO 3407 didn't affect you, or did it, you get the same new rest rules we all do...

What do you suggest I do to help them? Should I call AA management and complain when a 5 minute taxi takes 30?

Has your MEC ever used AA payscales for comparison? If so there you go, if not there you go.

We don't have an MEC. Even if we did, how does that make me part of the problem? We didn't get raises when everyone else did, nor did we ride the post 9/11 payscale slide either. If anything, in the last decade, we're the only ones holding the bar up for the rest of you guys. And we do it without taxiing unnecessarily slow.

Paycheck, and the office is nice.

I as well as the AA guys might agree...

So, greed is your motivating factor to work. So is mine. We agree.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Your point?

Its way too easy to get your goat old man....

Well, that's part of it, but I've been in several AA cockpits during the crAAwl, and they were doing for the added $$$$. That was years ago, maybe they're doing as a show of force now.

Or not, who cares quit whining!

I'm assuming? I've witnessed it, numerous times.

Don't believe everything you watch on the internet!

What do you suggest I do to help them? Should I call AA management and complain when a 5 minute taxi takes 30?

You could, or you could sit back and relax, and let the Captain taxi in peace.

We don't have an MEC. Even if we did, how does that make me part of the problem? We didn't get raises when everyone else did, nor did we ride the post 9/11 payscale slide either. If anything, in the last decade, we're the only ones holding the bar up for the rest of you guys. And we do it without taxiing unnecessarily slow.

Because I said you are, don't you understand?

So, greed is your motivating factor to work. So is mine. We agree.

Airline pilot pay equals greed? Not even close, the office is nice, and only smells like azz part of the time. I actually love to work 14 hour days, weekends and holidays too! It ain't digging ditches or pumping septic tanks, almost, but not quite there yet.

 

[Tripower455]

Its way too easy to get your goat old man....

LOL... Whatever. You'l never get my Goat, btw! I'll bet we're pretty close to the same age, and I'll wager that you're probably older than I am.....

Or not, who cares quit whining!

Who's whining? We were discussing the crAAwl.

Don't believe everything you watch on the internet!

I've never seen the crAAwl on the internet. I have, however, witnessed it in real life too many times to count.

You could, or you could sit back and relax, and let the Captain taxi in peace.

LOL.... It's hard to relax when I am riding the brakes for 30 minutes.

Because I said you are, don't you understand?

Ahh, ok, that says it all.

Airline pilot pay equals greed?

Apparently you think so.

Not even close, the office is nice, and only smells like azz part of the time. I actually love to work 14 hour days, weekends and holidays too! It ain't digging ditches or pumping septic tanks, almost, but not quite there yet.

Maybe someday you'll get a decent job, and some seniority to go with it.

It'll happen, as long as you remember to taxi reeeeeeaaaaaaaallllllllyyyyyyy ssssssssslllllllloooooooooowwwwwww all the time.

Merry New Year!

 

[Turtle21]

Eagle-- I DO get it, but I don't think you get what we're saying.

If AA wants to crawl-taxi for strategic purposes during their management and BK issues, I don't have a problem with that. More power to 'em. And I never said it was "padding their paychecks." I said that Fubijaakr and guys like him crawl-taxi to pad their paychecks (he gets paid by the minute), and to be honest, I don't care about that either. What I DO care about is people crawl-taxiing for whatever reason they have, and inconveniencing others who are NOT in the same position. That's inconsiderate and unprofessional, and in the Fubi-greed guys case, narcissistic.

There are ways to do what AA guys (and Fubi, for that matter) want to do withOUT screwing others. Taxi at a normal speed and then pull over. Rerun paperwork. Rerun data. Tell ground you're resolving a passenger issue or something. You're waiting on your numbers. Ask for a different runway, and taxi at the speed of snot on taxiways that other folks are not using. Whatever. Just don't screw the other pilots. Think about it, Eagle: how'd you like to barely miss your commute flight because it took you 27 minutes to taxi to the runway behind Fubijaakr when it should have taken you 8-10 minutes at the most? He's got his extra $5 for that flight, and you get to buy a hotel room and not go home that night. Wow, that seems fair.

Now Fubijaakr will undoubtedly come on again, and post something about SWA always rushing, and probably even bring up our two overruns again. Why? That's him. Does it have anything to do with the thread topic? No, of course not. We're talking about taxiing excessively slow for personal reasons, and he wants to make it about fast taxiing. So he'll continue to deflect and spin anti-SWA, because he said something really stupid, and doesn't know how to take it back. He'll keep trying to steer the conversation another way, and hope that you forget that he's a self-centered, egotistical putz. That's our Fubi!

Just thought you should know.

Bubba

I don't think you get it... Name one person on the entire planet that appreciates a back seat driver, and then I'll show you a captain that gives a hoot what others think about his taxi speed.