Avantair dumping?

[jonjuan]

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=AAIR.OB
Marketcap of $15mil? Yikes...

 

[BentOver]

What I haven't been able to figure out, and this is not a knock against Avantair or any of the fractionals...

If NJA is losing soo many owners etc.. It doesn't appear they are heading directly to the other fractionals.. Otherwise I think we'd be seeing mass hiring at those places?

As it stands, no fractional is doing much of anything besides maybe some very limited hiring....

opinions/theories?

 

[ditchpilot]

Its the same cycle that Doomed timeshare condos vacation clubs....
Owners who can afford to buy those who cant rent.

 

[cldsfr79]

What I haven't been able to figure out, and this is not a knock against Avantair or any of the fractionals...

If NJA is losing soo many owners etc.. It doesn't appear they are heading directly to the other fractionals.. Otherwise I think we'd be seeing mass hiring at those places?

As it stands, no fractional is doing much of anything besides maybe some very limited hiring....

opinions/theories?

There's no big boom going on at the fractionals because the owners who are bailing are either going to just charter or they are buying their own planes. With used private jets still at a historic low prices, owners can buy their own aircraft instead of paying for a share at a fractional.

Yes, NJA is rumored to be losing owners. Speculation among the pilots is that NetJets inc. is cannibalizing its customers. Instead of having an owner renew a contract, they are selling them a whole used plane and then placing the plane on EJM's certificate. The owner gets to now have their own plane and make money off of side charter. NJA shrinks, EJM grows and NetJets Inc cashes in and NJA pilots lose. Just rumor though....

 

[BentOver]

There's no big boom going on at the fractionals because the owners who are bailing are either going to just charter or they are buying their own planes. With used private jets still at a historic low prices, owners can buy their own aircraft instead of paying for a share at a fractional.

Yes, NJA is rumored to be losing owners. Speculation among the pilots is that NetJets inc. is cannibalizing its customers. Instead of having an owner renew a contract, they are selling them a whole used plane and then placing the plane on EJM's certificate. The owner gets to now have their own plane and make money off of side charter. NJA shrinks, EJM grows and NetJets Inc cashes in and NJA pilots lose. Just rumor though....

It sounds like a valid rumor.... My only dissent from that opinion is that there are only so many un-occupied planes. With multiple owners per plane even if 2 or 3 owners were up for renewal, the fleet of available a/c would diminish very quickly, leaving partially owned a/c that cannot be just sold and put on EJM's certificate.

If 8 peeps owned an a/c and 1 or 2 left, what a/c are they going to be sold if there are not all that many left to be sold?

 

[rajflyboy]

Avantair needs to get some King Airs. They will be able to sell this aircraft much better than the Piaggio.

 

[AftCG182]

Avantair needs to get some King Airs. They will be able to sell this aircraft much better than the Piaggio.

Yeahhhh... The King Air joke has pretty much run its course. I've got tons of time in various Beech products, so I'm speaking with affection when I say that we're not a King Air.

We're not having any trouble selling shares. What we are having trouble with is keeping up with demand. Some of it's seasonal, some not.

I'm sure that you've noticed that although the economy has improved overall, we're still a long way from where we (the Fractional industry) needs it to be.

Again, I love the King Air. I'm a turboprop guy to the core. The Avanti and the King Air are two very different animals.

 

[G4dude]

There's no big boom going on at the fractionals because the owners who are bailing are either going to just charter or they are buying their own planes. With used private jets still at a historic low prices, owners can buy their own aircraft instead of paying for a share at a fractional.

Yes, NJA is rumored to be losing owners. Speculation among the pilots is that NetJets inc. is cannibalizing its customers. Instead of having an owner renew a contract, they are selling them a whole used plane and then placing the plane on EJM's certificate. The owner gets to now have their own plane and make money off of side charter. NJA shrinks, EJM grows and NetJets Inc cashes in and NJA pilots lose. Just rumor though....

The other reason is we are still in a very weak and precarious economy, so prospective owners are waiting to see if we go into another recession or worse.

 

[fischman]

The other reason is we are still in a very weak and precarious economy, so prospective owners are waiting to see if we go into another recession or worse.

The DJIA has been averaging over 11,000 for about a year. Unemployment is at 8.6%, and every other fractional is growing. I wonder when we can stop using the weak economy excuse and start using the real excuse of piss poor management?

 

[Gators]

Avantair needs to get some King Airs. They will be able to sell this aircraft much better than the Piaggio.

What?

 

[BentOver]

The DJIA has been averaging over 11,000 for about a year. Unemployment is at 8.6%, and every other fractional is growing. I wonder when we can stop using the weak economy excuse and start using the real excuse of piss poor management?

no, no wait a second.Hansell said it's the economy stupid...He couldn't be wrong or lying.. He and Eyer and Noe are standup guys don't cha know

 

[G4dude]

The DJIA has been averaging over 11,000 for about a year. Unemployment is at 8.6%, and every other fractional is growing. I wonder when we can stop using the weak economy excuse and start using the real excuse of piss poor management?

Are the other fracs growing? And unemployment is actually around 16 percent, when adding those who have given up looking for a job. By the way, owners tell me they still like NJA, but didn't like Sokol at all.

 

[gunfyter]

You know who they do like:

1. Executive Lessons Learned | View Lesson – Riding Out A Recession ...

Big Deals Need Personal Involvement And A Time Limit
Brands Are Built On Integrity And Attention To Detail
Case Study: The Birth Of NetJets
Maintaining Customer Service When You Scale
Prove To Your Customers That You Care

 

[learflyer]

The DJIA has been averaging over 11,000 for about a year. Unemployment is at 8.6%, and every other fractional is growing. I wonder when we can stop using the weak economy excuse and start using the real excuse of piss poor management?

WOW! All the way down to 8.6%, huh? Happy days are here again! Wait until that number is adjusted back up again after the holiday temp workers are done working.

 

[fischman]

Are the other fracs growing? And unemployment is actually around 16 percent, when adding those who have given up looking for a job. By the way, owners tell me they still like NJA, but didn't like Sokol at all.

Yes other fracs are growing. The Avantair guys claim they can barely keep up with demand. Rumor is that CitationAir is going to start hiring again.

I'd like to see the source of your 16% number. Even in the darkest of day of this recession, I never saw a number that high. Here's where I found the 8.6% number: http://www.google.com/publicdata/ex...ity:S&dl=en&hl=en&q=current+unemployment+rate
As you can see, the highest number in that graph is from the recession in the 80's when it got up to 10.8%

I think the owners like the pilots, but they aren't happy with NJA. Not only did they not like Sokol, the owners hated the man. Most of them are smart enough to know that Hansell is a branch from the same tree.

 

[G4dude]

Yes other fracs are growing. The Avantair guys claim they can barely keep up with demand. Rumor is that CitationAir is going to start hiring again.

I'd like to see the source of your 16% number. Even in the darkest of day of this recession, I never saw a number that high. Here's where I found the 8.6% number: http://www.google.com/publicdata/ex...ity:S&dl=en&hl=en&q=current+unemployment+rate
As you can see, the highest number in that graph is from the recession in the 80's when it got up to 10.8%

I think the owners like the pilots, but they aren't happy with NJA. Not only did they not like Sokol, the owners hated the man. Most of them are smart enough to know that Hansell is a branch from the same tree.

Check out the writings of Stephen Moore of the Wall Street Journal. Also, Arthur Laffer. Now, if Hansell's management philosophy is similar to Sokol's, then NetJets IS in trouble, because owners will go elsewhere.

 

[gunfyter]

Real unemployment rate higher than federal figures - MSN Money ...

 

[fischman]

Real unemployment rate higher than federal figures - MSN Money ...

Thanks for that, but the article is dated 6/2010.

 

[fischman]

Check out the writings of Stephen Moore of the Wall Street Journal. Also, Arthur Laffer. Now, if Hansell's management philosophy is similar to Sokol's, then NetJets IS in trouble, because owners will go elsewhere.

Every indication is that not only is it similar, but it is identical and more aggressive IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

 

[NJAowner]

The unemployements rate announced by the US government among other items does not include:

1. those who have exhuaste dbenefits, give up, and no longer seek work
2. those who have taken jobs but less than what they want or are skilled for -- i.e., if one of the 495 becomes works the register at McDonalds, he is now "employed"
3. those who choose to work fewer hours in a week to spare their bretheren from being fired;
4. those who chose not to file for unemployment, like many carpenters and tradesman who were paid in cash for many years;
5. those who did not make enought $$ or work long enough to be eligible for benefits
6. youths between 16 and 18 who are now unemployed