AMR Merger will erode Pilot Retirement Jobs

[BrickTop]

A merger between AMR and AIRWAYS will reduce the pilot deficiencies created by robust retirements. Staffing shortages are greatly mitigated by reduced overlap and duplicate labor positions in a merger. Don't expect movement in 2012 or even 2013, better yet Ever. With every passing era of staffing shortage the industry has employed reductions,capacity and consolidation tactics that negated hiring needs. The reality is half this industry will NEVER see a Major let alone an upgrade.

 

[heywood jablome]

Totally agree.

Unfortunately, you just gave Management / Merger & Acquisition Lawyers a hard on

 

[scoreboardII]

I think it has more t do with the world downturn economically, the world is hitting an economic brickwall, everyone is outsourcing to the cheapest provider, airlines are no different. We are a bellwether for the country, soon watch as lawyers from India provide your defence.

 

[captfred]

depressing stuff.

 

[tailhookah]

The reality is half this industry will NEVER see a Major let alone an upgrade.

Actually the problem is two fold:

1) major airline guys gave up scope and let the regionals fly 50 seat jets and then 70-90 seat jets.

2) you guys gobbled up those jobs like a kid eating candy at easter and wonder why you can't get to the majors...

Here's a hint... you are flying our routes but for chump change. Get used to it!

Tail

 

[777forever]

A merger between AMR and AIRWAYS will reduce the pilot deficiencies created by robust retirements. Staffing shortages are greatly mitigated by reduced overlap and duplicate labor positions in a merger. Don't expect movement in 2012 or even 2013, better yet Ever. With every passing era of staffing shortage the industry has employed reductions,capacity and consolidation tactics that negated hiring needs. The reality is half this industry will NEVER see a Major let alone an upgrade.

Lay off the cocaine...

 

[outtahere]

Actually the problem is two fold:

1) major airline guys gave up scope and let the regionals fly 50 seat jets and then 70-90 seat jets.

2) you guys gobbled up those jobs like a kid eating candy at easter and wonder why you can't get to the majors...

Here's a hint... you are flying our routes but for chump change. Get used to it!

Tail

So we should have??????? Exactly!! When your greed gave way to scope relaxation, it stole any opportunity for anyone to start off at a major! You have to start somewhere and the regionals were hiring like crazy. Let me guess, you think we should fall on our sword for you right?? Typical greedy sh!t head mainliner.

 

[tailhookah]

The truth hurts... I never gave up that scope. It happend in the 90's when they gave up the 50 seat jet.

While I was furloughed for 5 years and couldn't find a job, you guys were enjoying your quick upgrades to your 70 seat jets and living high as a 20-something. Don't call me greedy. It goes both ways. You guys sucked up those jobs... now you are stuck in them w/ shrinking companies, b/c the 50 seater is no longer making money. Welcome to the industry... work your unions to pay you more... then maybe you'll all become as expensive as us and your jobs will go away and we'll get them back, hiring you onto our lists...

Don't cry to me about it. We've all lived it. Now it's your turn. Business sucks sometimes doesn't it?

Tail

 

[labbats]

The truth hurts... I never gave up that scope. It happend in the 90's when they gave up the 50 seat jet.

While I was furloughed for 5 years and couldn't find a job, you guys were enjoying your quick upgrades to your 70 seat jets and living high as a 20-something. Don't call me greedy. It goes both ways. You guys sucked up those jobs... now you are stuck in them w/ shrinking companies, b/c the 50 seater is no longer making money. Welcome to the industry... work your unions to pay you more... then maybe you'll all become as expensive as us and your jobs will go away and we'll get them back, hiring you onto our lists...

Don't cry to me about it. We've all lived it. Now it's your turn. Business sucks sometimes doesn't it?

Tail

Blame the pilots for taking a job at a regional? I guess they all should have joined the Navy and been pilots there?

I'm sure you're a gem to fly with.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

While I was furloughed for 5 years and couldn't find a job, you guys were enjoying your quick upgrades to your 70 seat jets and living high as a 20-something. Don't call me greedy. It goes both ways. You guys sucked up those jobs... now you are stuck in them w/ shrinking companies, b/c the 50 seater is no longer making money. Welcome to the industry... work your unions to pay you more... then maybe you'll all become as expensive as us and your jobs will go away and we'll get them back, hiring you onto our lists...

He's got a point.

 

[vetrider]

He's got a point.

He does indeed.

 

[tailhookah]

You new guys I fly w/ who come from the regional/feeders are all the same, with a few exceptions. You all want a quick upgrade and whine when you don't get it and have to sit reserve for years and work the holidays. You talk about how great airline x is to work for b/c it's better than.... mesa/pinnacle/mesaba/xjet/psa/tstates... most of you don't have kids and your wife works.

So you all are happy to be working at a company w/ better work rules and a more professional pilot group. Yet you won't look around and realize you are working under concessionary wages w/ poor health care and poor retirement.

You are all now at a Major airline. It's supposed to be better than your feeder you came from... that's the whole idea.

Now you are whining that since you have been so proficient in gaining our routes with ever bigger planes you won't have the opportunity to make it to a Major for a long time...

I'm not greedy... and I can feel for you, but this time I really don't care. I was on the corner in 02-05 watching you take more and more of my seat miles while you got your quick upgrades... what goes around comes around.

Don't worry... I'll retire in 22 years... you can have my left seat then. Until then, we work for a seniority based multi tiered system... wait your turn and keep climbing. That's how it works. You are not entitled to anything. Some times you get knocked back or frozen in position or even have to restart... that's life. Get used to it.

Your little quick start in this industry is over. The line just got long again. Take a number, keep flying that RJ, keep it out of the trees and continue to update your resume.

Your turn will probably come.

Tail

 

[Data]

You new guys I fly w/ who come from the regional/feeders are all the same, with a few exceptions. You all want a quick upgrade and whine when you don't get it and have to sit reserve for years and work the holidays. You talk about how great airline x is to work for b/c it's better than.... mesa/pinnacle/mesaba/xjet/psa/tstates... most of you don't have kids and your wife works.

So you all are happy to be working at a company w/ better work rules and a more professional ...blah blah blah
Tail

Wind check.

 

[JetFumes]

If this guy is already at a major and in the left seat, what is he bitching about? Does anyone actually have the retirement numbers for both US Air and AMR. I don't know for sure, but I think there would be hiring on a large scale no matter what happens.

 

[General Lee]

If this guy is already at a major and in the left seat, what is he bitching about? Does anyone actually have the retirement numbers for both US Air and AMR. I don't know for sure, but I think there would be hiring on a large scale no matter what happens.

I agree. Most of the East Wheenies are very old, and the problem at AA is that many of the senior Captains and FOs are the same age, meaning both will fall of the cliff at the same time. If AA and US merge, most of the hubs will remain entact, meaning a large percentage of the flights will still be mainline. That means hiring to fill those seats eventually. The USAir West guys will actually benefit the most in a merger like this, with old people on both sides leaving.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

374 more days!

 

[RJLoser]

How about instead of the blame game we do something about it?

 

[bri5150]

You new guys I fly w/ who come from the regional/feeders are all the same, with a few exceptions. You all want a quick upgrade and whine when you don't get it and have to sit reserve for years and work the holidays. You talk about how great airline x is to work for b/c it's better than.... mesa/pinnacle/mesaba/xjet/psa/tstates... most of you don't have kids and your wife works.

So you all are happy to be working at a company w/ better work rules and a more professional pilot group. Yet you won't look around and realize you are working under concessionary wages w/ poor health care and poor retirement.

You are all now at a Major airline. It's supposed to be better than your feeder you came from... that's the whole idea.

Now you are whining that since you have been so proficient in gaining our routes with ever bigger planes you won't have the opportunity to make it to a Major for a long time...

I'm not greedy... and I can feel for you, but this time I really don't care. I was on the corner in 02-05 watching you take more and more of my seat miles while you got your quick upgrades... what goes around comes around.

Don't worry... I'll retire in 22 years... you can have my left seat then. Until then, we work for a seniority based multi tiered system... wait your turn and keep climbing. That's how it works. You are not entitled to anything. Some times you get knocked back or frozen in position or even have to restart... that's life. Get used to it.

Your little quick start in this industry is over. The line just got long again. Take a number, keep flying that RJ, keep it out of the trees and continue to update your resume.

Your turn will probably come.

Tail

Were you hired on directly from CFI to a major? The ONLY people to blame for the regionals, and I mean ONLY ones, are the ones that gave up scope. Some of it was given in bankruptcy with no choice, but there is also some given up for pensions. I know I don't want these regional jets here. I want them at mainline. Give me one thing I can do about it as a regional pilot. Am I suppose to quit and say this isn't right and hope like hell a major will hire me without any recency? How about strike like Comair to get better wages? That seemed to work well...

 

[Bugs]

I never surrendered. They made my horse surrender. I bet he's pulling a wagon in Kansas somewhere...

 

[Fubijaakr]

I never surrendered. They made my horse surrender. I bet he's pulling a wagon in Kansas somewhere...

Endeavor to persevere...

 

[Spinn555]

"Do you have any turbojet time?" says the Captain on the big airline hiring board.

"No, I have 4,500 of turbine time in a turbo prop though," says the pilot applicant.

"Oh, I'm sorry. We are looking for those that have turbojet time in large aircraft. Props dont count."

Quit relaxing scope, then forcing the younger pilots to fly large jets!

 

[shon7]

what about all the free market arguments that are heard here so often.
The regionals only pay that low because there is a ready and willing pool of applicants to accept that level of pay.

 

[waveflyer]

Were you hired on directly from CFI to a major? The ONLY people to blame for the regionals, and I mean ONLY ones, are the ones that gave up scope. Some of it was given in bankruptcy with no choice, but there is also some given up for pensions. I know I don't want these regional jets here. I want them at mainline. Give me one thing I can do about it as a regional pilot. Am I suppose to quit and say this isn't right and hope like hell a major will hire me without any recency? How about strike like Comair to get better wages? That seemed to work well...

This^^^^

 

[waveflyer]

"Do you have any turbojet time?" says the Captain on the big airline hiring board.

"No, I have 4,500 of turbine time in a turbo prop though," says the pilot applicant.

"Oh, I'm sorry. We are looking for those that have turbojet time in large aircraft. Props dont count."

Quit relaxing scope, then forcing the younger pilots to fly large jets!

And this^^^

 

[waveflyer]

Tail hook- you don't get it and least respectable refuse responsibility for what legacy pilots created and management took advantage of. No regional pilot ever got a vote on scope.
As for the free market quip- the "free market" is so compromised by regulation, recency, seniority, and contracts, that to call it a 100% free market is truly ignorant. Have you seen Comair? The one regional that attempted to stand up for higher wages has been downsized to a fraction of itself- the regionals are an unrelenting whipsaw who's only purpose is to divide the pilots, divide our career, and play each company against the next- Comair gets too strong, and a little Saab operator named Chautauqua gets the new contracts and built up to the Rupublic we have today-
This is all controlled by mainline carriers guaranteeing profits to shell companies who will help them gut our profession.
It's a diabolical mainline mgmt plan- and one that we should all fight against- but believe me- as the poster I quoted above said- if legacy pilots signed off on outsourcing the 737/320 sized jets- that would just extend and divide the career more- and the "majors" would make 737/320 time the defacto competitive mins-

I could go on a lot longer- but from your posts- you won't understand

 

[bri5150]

Tail hook- you don't get it and least respectable refuse responsibility for what legacy pilots created and management took advantage of. No regional pilot ever got a vote on scope.
As for the free market quip- the "free market" is so compromised by regulation, recency, seniority, and contracts, that to call it a 100% free market is truly ignorant. Have you seen Comair? The one regional that attempted to stand up for higher wages has been downsized to a fraction of itself- the regionals are an unrelenting whipsaw who's only purpose is to divide the pilots, divide our career, and play each company against the next- Comair gets too strong, and a little Saab operator named Chautauqua gets the new contracts and built up to the Rupublic we have today-
This is all controlled by mainline carriers guaranteeing profits to shell companies who will help them gut our profession.
It's a diabolical mainline mgmt plan- and one that we should all fight against- but believe me- as the poster I quoted above said- if legacy pilots signed off on outsourcing the 737/320 sized jets- that would just extend and divide the career more- and the "majors" would make 737/320 time the defacto competitive mins-

I could go on a lot longer- but from your posts- you won't understand

And this^^^

It will be our fault if the 737s get outsourced to us because we are cheaper. We should all just quit if the majors relax scope more. That would really show them.

 

[Dornier 335]

The regionals only pay that low because there is a ready and willing pool of applicants to accept that level of pay.

"Do you have any turbojet time?" says the Captain on the big airline hiring board.

"No, I have 4,500 of turbine time in a turbo prop though," says the pilot applicant.

"Oh, I'm sorry. We are looking for those that have turbojet time in [large] aircraft. Props dont count."

So, what were are those RJ pilots supposed to do to become competitive for the majors?

 

[Citjok]

This is classic. Pilots fighting between themselves.The management types that are on this site must be having a good laugh. What a pity.

 

[Fubijaakr]

So, what were are those RJ pilots supposed to do to become competitive for the majors?

Competitiveness is entirely dependent on the supply of pilots available. If the mainlines dumped the RJ operators and replaced them with 737s in those markets, turboprop time would be the qualification you needed to get hired.

 

[JetMonkey]

373 Booya!