$27,500--I'll take it

[VMA214]

If you were'nt there, you don't know wtf you're talking about! I WAS!! Different company, same time. Within about a four minute period of time we were told: 1. Boston was no longer taking ANY diverts...PERIOD! 2) About a minute later...holding delays for JFK were now INDEFINITE. 3. At that point a couple of us in holding for JFK decided to Bingo to BDL which was showing 1 mile vis in -SN. (Closest alternates given by Approach were now Syracuse, Albany and someplace in New Hampshire.) About a minute after that Approach said "if you are not already going to BDL it is now closed to diverts." New ATIS for BDL then shows 1/4 mile, +SN RVR 3000. We joined a 25 mile conga line final to Bradley, let a couple of guys who were more scosh on gas than we were in front of us, and landed. BDL is a "Customs by prior arrangement" airport. We waited hours just for the Customs guys to show up. Customs building had NO power...no working jetbridge (on the ONLY jetbridge.) All the while a heavy, wet snow was falling at a time of the year NO ONE expected it. I'm sure people had no idea where the keys to the deicing trucks even were let alone the status of the fluid. Airplanes around the field had to be refueled from trucks, wherever they sat. The Airport Authority first had to figure out if that was even legal before they would fuel anybody off the gates. Trees were down everywhere in Hartford (which I saw on the ride back from the Hotel the next day) due to heavy snow on the tree leaves which had not yet fallen and power was out all over the city. I have to commend the JetBlue Captain for doing the BEST he could with what he had to work with...which wasn't much. I could hear the frustration in his voice and thought he maintained his professionalism despite the circumstances he was in.

Folks, if you weren't there don't cast aspersions. Learn from these guy's experience, pat 'em on the back and try to do better when your time comes. Cause if you do this long enough...it will!!

 

[BentOver]

The FBO poses a good question......Any reason they couldn't have pulled up to an FBO, either let down the slides OR hopefully the FBO had stairs? Then after unloading, go park somewhere (taxi way, tarmac..) so the next airliner can do the same thing....

FBO could bank some great $$...I know FBO's are always stoked to have airliners parked on their ramp. I lived in a snow belt city. Our local FBO has had JB on the ramp on more than 1 occasion due to diversions/charter flights etc.. I know alot of FBO's have the ability to offload large airliners.

 

[BentOver]

If you were'nt there, you don't know wtf you're talking about! I WAS!! Different company, same time. Within about a four minute period of time we were told: 1. Boston was no longer taking ANY diverts...PERIOD! 2) About a minute later...holding delays for JFK were now INDEFINITE. 3. At that point a couple of us in holding for JFK decided to Bingo to BDL which was showing 1 mile vis in -SN. (Closest alternates given by Approach were now Syracuse, Albany and someplace in New Hampshire.) About a minute after that Approach said "if you are not already going to BDL it is now closed to diverts." New ATIS for BDL then shows 1/4 mile, +SN RVR 3000. We joined a 25 mile conga line final to Bradley, let a couple of guys who were more scosh on gas than we were in front of us, and landed. BDL is a "Customs by prior arrangement" airport. We waited hours just for the Customs guys to show up. Customs building had NO power...no working jetbridge (on the ONLY jetbridge.) All the while a heavy, wet snow was falling at a time of the year NO ONE expected it. I'm sure people had no idea where the keys to the deicing trucks even were let alone the status of the fluid. Airplanes around the field had to be refueled from trucks, wherever they sat. The Airport Authority first had to figure out if that was even legal before they would fuel anybody off the gates. Trees were down everywhere in Hartford (which I saw on the ride back from the Hotel the next day) due to heavy snow on the tree leaves which had not yet fallen and power was out all over the city. I have to commend the JetBlue Captain for doing the BEST he could with what he had to work with...which wasn't much. I could hear the frustration in his voice and thought he maintained his professionalism despite the circumstances he was in.

Folks, if you weren't there don't cast aspersions. Learn from these guy's experience, pat 'em on the back and try to do better when your time comes. Cause if you do this long enough...it will!!

A little monday morning (literally) QB'ing.... It's been awhile, but why did everyone decide to use BDL? Surely with the weather you described,it would have been forecast. Places like SYR, ROC probably would have been nearly as quick seeing how you were in a long line with terrible weather.

How long did it take you to get into BDL? I ask becasue SYR is maybe a 25 minute flight from JFK/BDL area..

 

[VMA214]

No, it was not even close to that forecast when we left CDG 8 hours earlier. More importantly, JFK was not supposed to be that bad either and when they went to an indefinite hold it threw everyone!

 

[VMA214]

When things started to turn into a sh1t sandwich in a hurry while holding at Trait we had about 17K #s on a 76-300 and landed at BDL with about 11.5K...we have no plates for Syracuse or Albany on this airplane.

 

[Nado]

"Look we can't seem to get any help from our company." JB captain

One has to wonder why not?

The chief pilot was worried that pilots shirts were different shades of blue and the company was busy getting ready for a Halloween silent disco at T-5 in JFK, that's why.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

The FBO poses a good question......Any reason they couldn't have pulled up to an FBO, either let down the slides OR hopefully the FBO had stairs? Then after unloading, go park somewhere (taxi way, tarmac..) so the next airliner can do the same thing....

FBO could bank some great $$...I know FBO's are always stoked to have airliners parked on their ramp. I lived in a snow belt city. Our local FBO has had JB on the ramp on more than 1 occasion due to diversions/charter flights etc.. I know alot of FBO's have the ability to offload large airliners.

But how many FBO's can handle 150 people? And that's only one JetBlue airbus. BDL had 23 diversions. Assuming you cram 150 people into a FBO, then what do you do with them?

 

[Headfake14]

That JB plane landed at around 1300ish. The bad...UN-FORCASTED BAD...started to hit shortly there after. They sat in the same place for quite a while...I believe they WERE fueled to take off again but needed to be towed out of where they were. I don't think they could taxi...blocked in maybe. Plus, by then, there was probably over a foot of snow on the ramp/taxiways. I don't know how fast BDL was plowing.

I was on my way in from LAX (JB) and we were checking wx the whole way...started holding at LENDY around 1500...BDL was already well into the sh!t sandwhich. BDL was our planned altn. But it was a no brainer that was NOT where we'd go...PIT, SYR, BUF, ROC and ACY were our choices. We eventually made it in to JFK after 70 minutes of holding in moderate chop.

whole day sucked....

 

[skidbuggy]

"Look we can't seem to get any help from our company." JB captain

QUOTE]

Sounds like incompetant leadership at the corporate level. I hope Jetblue doesn't retaliate against the pilots for speaking ill (truth?) of their employer.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Choosing BDL as the alternate was poor planning. A little more gas and use Pittsburgh. Plenty of gates and an airport with lots of resources.

M

+1 My thoughts exactly. How many times has some snot nosed dispatcher given us an alternate into the weather. When called on it, they say "it's legal and I'm under the gun to save fuel". Well airline managers, this is what you get with that plan...

 

[NSW]

BDL TAF at the time the flights diverted... between 16 and 18Z I believe:

TAF KBDL 291120Z 2912/3018 02007KT P6SM OVC100
FM291500 03010KT P6SM OVC070
FM291800 03010G18KT 2SM RA BR OVC020
FM292200 02014G22KT 3/4SM -SN BR OVC010

BDL went 1/4SM +SN at 1740Z and stayed that way all night, picking up 20" of snow. This might be the worst TAF I've ever seen.

JFK lost the LOC for 4R and the GS for 13L with a gusty NE wind. EWR lost their 4R LOC as well. BOS was turning diversions away.

B6 has a lot to answer for, but so do the NWS and the FAA.

 

[aewanabe]

"Look we can't seem to get any help from our company." JB captain

QUOTE]

Sounds like incompetant leadership at the corporate level. I hope Jetblue doesn't retaliate against the pilots for speaking ill (truth?) of their employer.

Our CEO has already put out a company-wide email with thinly-veiled criticism of the pilots for "finger-pointing". Good thing JBPA... Wait, no it's ALPA... Crap, its nobody....has our back. Oh wait, 1193 dummies thought the PVC and values would save them. Bet those two guys are feeling real warm and fuzzy about that right now.

 

[WildcatFan]

I wonder what the company would have got them some stairs if the slides came out? Looked like it was about a 50 foot walk to the jetway stairs up into the terminal.

Ther is absolutely nothing in the FAA regs that allow an airline, any airline, to hold passengers hostage. The pax are not prisoners.

 

[PsubS]

Our CEO has already put out a company-wide email with thinly-veiled criticism of the pilots for "finger-pointing".

We will only get better by working together. I know the passion everyone brings to the job sometimes leads to frustration when things don’t go right. But we can never, ever, blame each other for a service failure. I expect JetBlue Crewmembers to stand up and take responsibility for their part, and ask for help when help is needed. We either win together or lose together – no one stands alone. Part of this requires everyone to be willing to give and take feedback dispassionately, and not personally.

Doesn't sound to me as if he was singling out the pilots in this comment. Certainly the pilots weren't the only ones pointing out the problems at BDL.

 

[CA1900]

Choosing BDL as the alternate was poor planning. A little more gas and use Pittsburgh. Plenty of gates...

I don't disagree that BDL was not the best choice, but realize that those unused gates at PIT (in the A and B concourses) are completely walled off and not usable.