Junior Captain at JetBlue?

[captain caveman]

I was hired at Jet Blue just over 5 years ago. Then, a year later I went to Delta. It wasn't that I didn't like JetBlue, I did and usually had more fun at work, once I got there. But I found the commute from Atlanta tiring, and had gone through a divorce where I would get my kids 50% of the time. So I could rarely enjoy premium pay at JetBlue.

Now after 4 years at Delta, I'm a junior Md88 copilot and can enjoy a great schedule with weekends off on reserve, living in base. Or, I could probably fly an 80 hour line over weekends.

I'm just curious if by now I would have made captain on the 190 if I had stayed. I'm sure I would be holding a much better schedule as a 320 copilot at JetBlue than I can at Delta on the maddog.

 

[fifty30retard]

I was hired at Jet Blue just over 5 years ago. Then, a year later I went to Delta. It wasn't that I didn't like JetBlue, I did and usually had more fun at work, once I got there. But I found the commute from Atlanta tiring, and had gone through a divorce where I would get my kids 50% of the time. So I could rarely enjoy premium pay at JetBlue.

Now after 4 years at Delta, I'm a junior Md88 copilot and can enjoy a great schedule with weekends off on reserve, living in base. Or, I could probably fly an 80 hour line over weekends.

I'm just curious if by now I would have made captain on the 190 if I had stayed. I'm sure I would be holding a much better schedule as a 320 copilot at JetBlue than I can at Delta on the maddog.

You would need to be at jetBlue 7 1/2 years to be a line holding A320 CA, but you'd probably be a 190 line holder now with a better than average schedule, which isn't saying much, as those trips suck. You'd also have back pain and a need to pick up flica trips as much as possible, though there aren't many these days to pick up.

Your medical for your family would cost you $740/mo., you'd have no work rules except the FARs, and your retirement would amount to a 5% contribution with your paying in 5%, and a 5% profit sharing paid four months timelate the next year. I'm sure you can point to your Delta retirement, work rules, and medical, along with seniority retirement movement as very good reasons to justify your being on the Delta property.

We fly shiny airplanes, but our management sucks and so does our compensation and benefits. We fatigue quicker than any other pilot group too.

Note:
For any newhire, multiply the number of jetBlue pilots by 3 (right now that's 2300 x 3 = 6900) and when jetBlue has that number of pilots, you will be a line holding A320 Captain, working holidays, weekends, and redeyes. When will B6 have 6900 pilots?............NEVER.

 

[Dr King]

You would need to be at jetBlue 7 1/2 years to be a line holding A320 CA, but you'd probably be a 190 line holder now with a better than average schedule, which isn't saying much, as those trips suck. You'd also have back pain and a need to pick up flica trips as much as possible, though there aren't many these days to pick up.

Your medical for your family would cost you $740/mo., you'd have no work rules except the FARs, and your retirement would amount to a 5% contribution with your paying in 5%, and a 5% profit sharing paid four months timelate the next year. I'm sure you can point to your Delta retirement, work rules, and medical, along with seniority retirement movement as very good reasons to justify your being on the Delta property.

We fly shiny airplanes, but our management sucks and so does our compensation and benefits. We fatigue quicker than any other pilot group too.

Note:
For any newhire, multiply the number of jetBlue pilots by 3 (right now that's 2300 x 3 = 6900) and when jetBlue has that number of pilots, you will be a line holding A320 Captain, working holidays, weekends, and redeyes. When will B6 have 6900 pilots?............NEVER.

I wish you would take you're bitter ass to Delta.

 

[say again]

I wish you would take you're bitter ass to Delta.

What is he saying that is not true?? I can't see how any pilot can be happy with what you guys have...it blows!!

As for his last paragraph, well, that's his personal opinion. Time will tell on that, if they are around still

 

[B6Busdriver]

I wish you would take you're bitter ass to Delta.

Reality sucks, especially when it's in black and white.

 

[BeachBummer]

Reality sucks, especially when it's in black and white.

Truth... The stuff that JetBlue doesnt tell you.

 

[Fins Up]

Most junior A320 CA was hired in Apr 2006. Most junior E180(hehe) CA hired probably six months later.

It sounds like you started JB shortly after I did. I'm currently a BOS A320 FO and bid around 15ish %. I get the trips I want, weekends off, and 15-17 days off a month. I could have more days off but I bid 4-days, which are less productive than day turns, so I don't have to keep a crashpad.

Relative seniority is nice but there's nothing like living in base. Hope the maddog is treating you well.

 

[fifty30retard]

I wish you would take you're bitter ass to Delta.

No chance dipsh!t, I'm going to be the guy on your next 5 day trip laughing at your lack of any knowledge of anything around you, like your CEOs intimate relationship with Frank Lorenzo and New York Air, or the fact your Chairman of the Board teaches negotiating at Stanford University's Graduate School of Management and you and 14,000 other idiots can't negotiate a thing..........by design.

 

[fifty30retard]

What is he saying that is not true?? I can't see how any pilot can be happy with what you guys have...it blows!!

As for his last paragraph, well, that's his personal opinion. Time will tell on that, if they are around still

No reason to come work here, can't you see what clowns you'd be junior to? Now that would really be insulting.

 

[Flyby1206]

No reason to come work here, can't you see what clowns you'd be junior to? Now that would really be insulting.

Hahaha now that made me chuckle

 

[145 Lawndart]

Most junior A320 CA was hired in Apr 2006. Most junior E180(hehe) CA hired probably six months later.

It sounds like you started JB shortly after I did. I'm currently a BOS A320 FO and bid around 15ish %. I get the trips I want, weekends off, and 15-17 days off a month. I could have more days off but I bid 4-days, which are less productive than day turns, so I don't have to keep a crashpad.

Relative seniority is nice but there's nothing like living in base. Hope the maddog is treating you well.

The most junior 320 Capt on the last bid was a jan '07 hire.

 

[Fins Up]

The most junior 320 Capt on the last bid was a jan '07 hire.

I was speaking of CA's who have finished the upgrade, but thanks for the info.

 

[PsubS]

Or, in reality, you'd be paying $310 per month for medical coverage...you know, that's the medical plan that 90% of all pilots select?

Don't let the naysayers spin their so called "facts" to give a one-sided (and always negative) aspect of what's going on at JB.

There are plenty of things to fix (and, frankly, the upper end medical coverage plan is way too expensive), but there are plenty of good things happening as well.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Or, in reality, you'd be paying $310 per month for medical coverage...you know, that's the medical plan that 90% of all pilots select?

Don't let the naysayers spin their so called "facts" to give a one-sided (and always negative) aspect of what's going on at JB.

There are plenty of things to fix (and, frankly, the upper end medical coverage plan is way too expensive), but there are plenty of good things happening as well.

Sooo... 'tri-care or jb health care?

 

[Lake Alice]

I was hired at Jet Blue just over 5 years ago. Then, a year later I went to Delta. It wasn't that I didn't like JetBlue, I did and usually had more fun at work, once I got there. But I found the commute from Atlanta tiring, and had gone through a divorce where I would get my kids 50% of the time. So I could rarely enjoy premium pay at JetBlue.

Now after 4 years at Delta, I'm a junior Md88 copilot and can enjoy a great schedule with weekends off on reserve, living in base. Or, I could probably fly an 80 hour line over weekends.

I'm just curious if by now I would have made captain on the 190 if I had stayed. I'm sure I would be holding a much better schedule as a 320 copilot at JetBlue than I can at Delta on the maddog.

You would have made captain on either A/C but on reserve for both or be a senior F/O on either and make your schedule. Regardles you made the right decision to go to Delta. I just read your MEC's latest pay and benefits review and it's appalling how poorly we compare. The sections on retirement, protections and health benefits and the most frightening.

 

[Lake Alice]

Tard may be negative but he is partially correct. A current new hire will never see the left seat based on actual aircraft deliveries. Keep in mind for every 2 or 3 aircraft we take delivery of we also return 1-2 lease backs. Our net aircraft is always substantially less than the order book. Ofcourse all this is verifiable with the quarterly reports. Also keep in mind upgrades at Jetblue are primarily based on expansion as our pilot group is comparatively young.
What Tard won't tell you is this is a decent place to work. You must, however, keep in mind Jetblue is a stepping stone, period! We lack retirement and benefits enjoyed by most other majors and legacy carriers. As we have no method for negotiating our leadership has made it abundantly clear there will be no changes. Again, verifiable by the latest quarterly report.

 

[FlyboyPhil]

Question from Daniel McKenzie, CFA, Managing Director and Senior Airlines Analyst for Rodman and Renshaw:

“Do we have any labor cost increases that we should be thinking about, I guess, since the pilots decided not to unionize, was there any kind of exchange in terms of compensation we should be thinking about heading into the first quarter or into next year?”

Answer from Mark Powers, Chief Financial Officer for JetBlue Airways:

“None whatsoever”

 

[Fins Up]

what else is she going to say? "Yes, we expect another union vote in the next couple of years, as well as large pay raises for all pilots."

 

[Blue Dude]

what else is she going to say? "Yes, we expect another union vote in the next couple of years, as well as large pay raises for all pilots."

Well it is a little difficult to fix the things that are "right around the corner" like retirement without any money "whatsoever". They could easily have said that they value their crewmembers, welcome their decision to commit to the Direct Relationship, and have set aside a reasonable sum of money intended to address issues raised during the last campaign. Instead, we now know they have no intention of following through and have a ready made excuse for not doing so: "it isn't in the budget." Same old same old.

Maybe this was a rookie mistake by a guy trying to appease an analyst without realizing the impact his words would have on the pilots. But it is precisely the kind of unguarded comment that exposes what they are really thinking at that level. They really don't have any intention of taking care of their own, only limiting costs.

 

[Fins Up]

I don't disagree with any of that. It would be nice to hear something like that. I guess I just don't really expect to hear it.

 

[Blue Dude]

I don't disagree with any of that. It would be nice to hear something like that. I guess I just don't really expect to hear it.

You would hear it if the ELT actually meant what they said. Culture here isn't what it is at Southwest, for instance. Here it's merely a tool for managing employee expectations and keeping us quiet. It's not practiced at the top, only mouthed at appropriate times to keep costs down. That's a really cynical view, but I can't come to any other conclusion.

 

[CapnVegetto]

A union is coming at JB, it's just a question of when. ALPA got voted down last time b/c of the perfect $hitstorm of the TWA judgement plus their increasingly bad reputation. I honestly believe a JBPA would have passed.

Sooner or later the company will run out of blue juice. I agree that changes need to be made, I just don't agree with all the bitching, whining, and griping done by people that are in the top 8% of wage earners in this country. I know you are trying to fix things that you view as substandard, and I support that. But don't act like you're impoverished. It's f-cking pathetic.

I don't want to hear about what Southwest and Delta pilots make. I don't give a rat's a$$. You want to make what WN and DL pilots make, go get a f-cking job there. In the meantime, be happy with what you've got, realize that you are better off than about 95% of the people living on this f-cking planet, and work to improve it from there.

JUST. STOP. WHINING.

 

[fifty30retard]

A union is coming at JB, it's just a question of when. ALPA got voted down last time b/c of the perfect $hitstorm of the TWA judgement plus their increasingly bad reputation. I honestly believe a JBPA would have passed.

Sooner or later the company will run out of blue juice. I agree that changes need to be made, I just don't agree with all the bitching, whining, and griping done by people that are in the top 8% of wage earners in this country. I know you are trying to fix things that you view as substandard, and I support that. But don't act like you're impoverished. It's f-cking pathetic.

I don't want to hear about what Southwest and Delta pilots make. I don't give a rat's a$$. You want to make what WN and DL pilots make, go get a f-cking job there. In the meantime, be happy with what you've got, realize that you are better off than about 95% of the people living on this f-cking planet, and work to improve it from there.

JUST. STOP. WHINING.

And there lies the problem. Content with mediocrity inherent in your crewmemberness. Snap out of it man, you're leaving 35% on the table. Your PCASM is 35% below SWA.

I don't give a $hit about what the rest of the country makes, I care about what percentage of the $5 billion a year in revenue jetblue pilots get, and that number should be 10%.

Stand up for something man, if not yourself, your fellow pilots, they deserve due consideration.

 

[CapnVegetto]

And there lies the problem. Content with mediocrity inherent in your crewmemberness. Snap out of it man, you're leaving 35% on the table. Your PCASM is 35% below SWA.

I don't give a $hit about what the rest of the country makes, I care about what percentage of the $5 billion a year in revenue jetblue pilots get, and that number should be 10%.

Stand up for something man, if not yourself, your fellow pilots, they deserve due consideration.

Content with mediocrity? You asshat. How is the top 8% in the country mediocrity?

You guys are a dime a dozen. You could make $500K a year for working 6 days a month and you'd still be bitching and whining like a little girl about how you don't work 5 days a month. Get over yourself.

I'm not against improving things at JetBlue. I'm not even against a union. I'd vote for one simply for the merger protection if nothing else. What I am against is whiny, complaining, little bitc-hes that have no concept of the real world, have no idea how to manage their assets and live within their means, and expect everyone else to fix their problems all the while spending every waking moment of their existance trying to figure out ways to NOT go to work.

I've got news for you skippy, you are an AIRLINE PILOT. You have a job that most people in this country would kill for. You work an average of half the month. You don't sit in a cubicle 5 days a week. Unless you are an FO, you work largely unsupervised, and never have to talk to your boss unless you f-ck up. One of my most recent days of work consisted of flying down to UVF, spending 24 hours drinking, eating, and having fun at an all-inclusive resort, and then going home. Oh, and my wife came. Yes, THAT was work. I've got it real tough.

You have no idea what the real world is like. You have no concept of the other 90%. I've been there, I've seen it. I've had a real job. I ultimately chose the pilot profession for a very simple reason: Most amount of money for least amount of work. It's painfully obvious that you would NEVER be happy, no matter what they give you. I've seen too many just like you.......they would bitch at a brick wall just to have something to bitch to.

Do us all a favor and shut the hell up. Take your worthless a$$ somewhere else and bitch there. I don't want to hear it. Improvement is not out of the realm of possibility. I'm not against it at all. I'm just against wastes of humanity such as yourself that sing a pathetic sob story when in reality you have NOTHING to sing about.

As I said earlier, piss off.

 

[mxer]

To the OP, don't look backwards! Enjoy the decision that you made and don't sweat the alternative that you didn't. Enjoy the time with your kids. They wont always be there. They grow fast. Your life choices and your job are what you make of them. Good luck to all.

 

[fifty30retard]

Tard may be negative but he is partially correct. A current new hire will never see the left seat based on actual aircraft deliveries. Keep in mind for every 2 or 3 aircraft we take delivery of we also return 1-2 lease backs. Our net aircraft is always substantially less than the order book. Ofcourse all this is verifiable with the quarterly reports. Also keep in mind upgrades at Jetblue are primarily based on expansion as our pilot group is comparatively young.
What Tard won't tell you is this is a decent place to work. You must, however, keep in mind Jetblue is a stepping stone, period! We lack retirement and benefits enjoyed by most other majors and legacy carriers. As we have no method for negotiating our leadership has made it abundantly clear there will be no changes. Again, verifiable by the latest quarterly report.

Partially? Please, spare me your intellectual superiority, and the witty tard label, you idiots have one thing in your playbook, and one alone, and it's to distract with a label on someone to get away from the issues, thinking it's a winning strategy, for what who knows. When a pilot advocate advocates, that's ok, but when the pilot advocate advocates too much, now he/she's a "radical". Explain that one to me.

You've had two organizing campaigns, both unsuccessful, one an in-house, one ALPA, and at the end of the day, you've managed to increase your PCASM zero dollars to pay for needed improvements, and you're actually proud of that? It would seem to be you are on a treadmill to nowhere, and getting there fast.

So thanks for your banter, it is lively yet stale, but the next time you trot out a phd "thinker" from the worst school in the country, please don't put merit in his unabomber diatribes, it's beneath you.

 

[dhc8fo]

.....all posts......

Thanks for a level-headed response. I, for one, appreciate it.

 

[NoPFactor]

Flight Info has had it's fair share of useless posters over the years. I have to admit fifty30retard is the worst. What a POS

 

[dcfu69]

Content with mediocrity? You asshat. How is the top 8% in the country mediocrity?

You guys are a dime a dozen. You could make $500K a year for working 6 days a month and you'd still be bitching and whining like a little girl about how you don't work 5 days a month. Get over yourself.

I'm not against improving things at JetBlue. I'm not even against a union. I'd vote for one simply for the merger protection if nothing else. What I am against is whiny, complaining, little bitc-hes that have no concept of the real world, have no idea how to manage their assets and live within their means, and expect everyone else to fix their problems all the while spending every waking moment of their existance trying to figure out ways to NOT go to work.



I've got news for you skippy, you are an AIRLINE PILOT. You have a job that most people in this country would kill for. You work an average of half the month. You don't sit in a cubicle 5 days a week. Unless you are an FO, you work largely unsupervised, and never have to talk to your boss unless you f-ck up. One of my most recent days of work consisted of flying down to UVF, spending 24 hours drinking, eating, and having fun at an all-inclusive resort, and then going home. Oh, and my wife came. Yes, THAT was work. I've got it real tough.

You have no idea what the real world is like. You have no concept of the other 90%. I've been there, I've seen it. I've had a real job. I ultimately chose the pilot profession for a very simple reason: Most amount of money for least amount of work. It's painfully obvious that you would NEVER be happy, no matter what they give you. I've seen too many just like you.......they would bitch at a brick wall just to have something to bitch to.

Do us all a favor and shut the hell up. Take your worthless a$$ somewhere else and bitch there. I don't want to hear it. Improvement is not out of the realm of possibility. I'm not against it at all. I'm just against wastes of humanity such as yourself that sing a pathetic sob story when in reality you have NOTHING to sing about.

As I said earlier, piss off.

Excellent Post. I've been bitter about things in the past to. But a key thing to remember is never forget where you came from. This job has seen some major down turns in the past decade, but its still no where near as bad as some jobs. At the end of the day we still do what we love (that's why everyone on here started flying..riiight??) and we have a job. As mentioned above, I'm not against industry wide improvement in pay and work rules etc.. Just trying to put things in perspective.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Excellent Post. I've been bitter about things in the past to. But a key thing to remember is never forget where you came from. This job has seen some major down turns in the past decade, but its still no where near as bad as some jobs. At the end of the day we still do what we love (that's why everyone on here started flying..riiight??) and we have a job. As mentioned above, I'm not against industry wide improvement in pay and work rules etc.. Just trying to put things in perspective.

Exactamundo.

JB is a good place to work. Nobody is saying there isn't room for improvement, and I'm not against a union one bit. I just hate listening to people with a 200+K income bitch and whine like they're buying ramen noodles with food stamps. It's pathetic.

This is not a bad job, and there are thousands of people in the industry that would love to work here. A union is no doubt coming to JB. I think the next time there is a try, it'll pass. I honestly, truly think it would have passed this time if it weren't for the TWA lawsuit and ALPA's terrible reputation.

I, for one, am a yes vote next time it comes up, (couldn't vote this time), for one simple reason: I believe that a merger/acquisition is just a matter of time, and I want union CBA representation when that happens. The whole PEA thing is all well and good, but there is no legal precident, which means big, nasty, long court battle that we can't afford. If we had a $20 mil. war chest, we might win and our PEA might hold up, but we don't have that. If we have a CBA, we'll go to arbitration and that'll be that. Hell if AA buys us it'll be a staple anyway. If WN buys us, it'll be a lower-end relative for us with fences, similar to what Tranny got. Either is fine with me. I'm junior and I'll be at the bottom either way. The senior guys are the ones that are going to get screwed when a M & A comes. If AA buys us and we get stapled, myself and most junior guys could care less, because with retirements, we'll all be widebody captains in 10-12 years. The senior guys flying day turns making 250-300K a year will get screwed. They'll be OK for a while, b/c their seats will get fenced, but every time there are upgrades, AA FO's will upgrade to the bus, and come in senior to them. They'll lose base seniority and won't be able to do those lucrative day turns any more.

Mergers are never good for pilots anyway. But mark my word, it is coming. JB is like the foreign exchange student with big tits. Everybody wants a piece, and sooner or later somebody is going to step up and get it. It's nothing more than a question of who does it and when.