Junior Captain at JetBlue?

[Blue Dude]

I don't disagree with any of that. It would be nice to hear something like that. I guess I just don't really expect to hear it.

You would hear it if the ELT actually meant what they said. Culture here isn't what it is at Southwest, for instance. Here it's merely a tool for managing employee expectations and keeping us quiet. It's not practiced at the top, only mouthed at appropriate times to keep costs down. That's a really cynical view, but I can't come to any other conclusion.

 

[CapnVegetto]

A union is coming at JB, it's just a question of when. ALPA got voted down last time b/c of the perfect $hitstorm of the TWA judgement plus their increasingly bad reputation. I honestly believe a JBPA would have passed.

Sooner or later the company will run out of blue juice. I agree that changes need to be made, I just don't agree with all the bitching, whining, and griping done by people that are in the top 8% of wage earners in this country. I know you are trying to fix things that you view as substandard, and I support that. But don't act like you're impoverished. It's f-cking pathetic.

I don't want to hear about what Southwest and Delta pilots make. I don't give a rat's a$$. You want to make what WN and DL pilots make, go get a f-cking job there. In the meantime, be happy with what you've got, realize that you are better off than about 95% of the people living on this f-cking planet, and work to improve it from there.

JUST. STOP. WHINING.

 

[fifty30retard]

A union is coming at JB, it's just a question of when. ALPA got voted down last time b/c of the perfect $hitstorm of the TWA judgement plus their increasingly bad reputation. I honestly believe a JBPA would have passed.

Sooner or later the company will run out of blue juice. I agree that changes need to be made, I just don't agree with all the bitching, whining, and griping done by people that are in the top 8% of wage earners in this country. I know you are trying to fix things that you view as substandard, and I support that. But don't act like you're impoverished. It's f-cking pathetic.

I don't want to hear about what Southwest and Delta pilots make. I don't give a rat's a$$. You want to make what WN and DL pilots make, go get a f-cking job there. In the meantime, be happy with what you've got, realize that you are better off than about 95% of the people living on this f-cking planet, and work to improve it from there.

JUST. STOP. WHINING.

And there lies the problem. Content with mediocrity inherent in your crewmemberness. Snap out of it man, you're leaving 35% on the table. Your PCASM is 35% below SWA.

I don't give a $hit about what the rest of the country makes, I care about what percentage of the $5 billion a year in revenue jetblue pilots get, and that number should be 10%.

Stand up for something man, if not yourself, your fellow pilots, they deserve due consideration.

 

[CapnVegetto]

And there lies the problem. Content with mediocrity inherent in your crewmemberness. Snap out of it man, you're leaving 35% on the table. Your PCASM is 35% below SWA.

I don't give a $hit about what the rest of the country makes, I care about what percentage of the $5 billion a year in revenue jetblue pilots get, and that number should be 10%.

Stand up for something man, if not yourself, your fellow pilots, they deserve due consideration.

Content with mediocrity? You asshat. How is the top 8% in the country mediocrity?

You guys are a dime a dozen. You could make $500K a year for working 6 days a month and you'd still be bitching and whining like a little girl about how you don't work 5 days a month. Get over yourself.

I'm not against improving things at JetBlue. I'm not even against a union. I'd vote for one simply for the merger protection if nothing else. What I am against is whiny, complaining, little bitc-hes that have no concept of the real world, have no idea how to manage their assets and live within their means, and expect everyone else to fix their problems all the while spending every waking moment of their existance trying to figure out ways to NOT go to work.

I've got news for you skippy, you are an AIRLINE PILOT. You have a job that most people in this country would kill for. You work an average of half the month. You don't sit in a cubicle 5 days a week. Unless you are an FO, you work largely unsupervised, and never have to talk to your boss unless you f-ck up. One of my most recent days of work consisted of flying down to UVF, spending 24 hours drinking, eating, and having fun at an all-inclusive resort, and then going home. Oh, and my wife came. Yes, THAT was work. I've got it real tough.

You have no idea what the real world is like. You have no concept of the other 90%. I've been there, I've seen it. I've had a real job. I ultimately chose the pilot profession for a very simple reason: Most amount of money for least amount of work. It's painfully obvious that you would NEVER be happy, no matter what they give you. I've seen too many just like you.......they would bitch at a brick wall just to have something to bitch to.

Do us all a favor and shut the hell up. Take your worthless a$$ somewhere else and bitch there. I don't want to hear it. Improvement is not out of the realm of possibility. I'm not against it at all. I'm just against wastes of humanity such as yourself that sing a pathetic sob story when in reality you have NOTHING to sing about.

As I said earlier, piss off.

 

[mxer]

To the OP, don't look backwards! Enjoy the decision that you made and don't sweat the alternative that you didn't. Enjoy the time with your kids. They wont always be there. They grow fast. Your life choices and your job are what you make of them. Good luck to all.

 

[fifty30retard]

Tard may be negative but he is partially correct. A current new hire will never see the left seat based on actual aircraft deliveries. Keep in mind for every 2 or 3 aircraft we take delivery of we also return 1-2 lease backs. Our net aircraft is always substantially less than the order book. Ofcourse all this is verifiable with the quarterly reports. Also keep in mind upgrades at Jetblue are primarily based on expansion as our pilot group is comparatively young.
What Tard won't tell you is this is a decent place to work. You must, however, keep in mind Jetblue is a stepping stone, period! We lack retirement and benefits enjoyed by most other majors and legacy carriers. As we have no method for negotiating our leadership has made it abundantly clear there will be no changes. Again, verifiable by the latest quarterly report.

Partially? Please, spare me your intellectual superiority, and the witty tard label, you idiots have one thing in your playbook, and one alone, and it's to distract with a label on someone to get away from the issues, thinking it's a winning strategy, for what who knows. When a pilot advocate advocates, that's ok, but when the pilot advocate advocates too much, now he/she's a "radical". Explain that one to me.

You've had two organizing campaigns, both unsuccessful, one an in-house, one ALPA, and at the end of the day, you've managed to increase your PCASM zero dollars to pay for needed improvements, and you're actually proud of that? It would seem to be you are on a treadmill to nowhere, and getting there fast.

So thanks for your banter, it is lively yet stale, but the next time you trot out a phd "thinker" from the worst school in the country, please don't put merit in his unabomber diatribes, it's beneath you.

 

[dhc8fo]

.....all posts......

Thanks for a level-headed response. I, for one, appreciate it.

 

[NoPFactor]

Flight Info has had it's fair share of useless posters over the years. I have to admit fifty30retard is the worst. What a POS

 

[dcfu69]

Content with mediocrity? You asshat. How is the top 8% in the country mediocrity?

You guys are a dime a dozen. You could make $500K a year for working 6 days a month and you'd still be bitching and whining like a little girl about how you don't work 5 days a month. Get over yourself.

I'm not against improving things at JetBlue. I'm not even against a union. I'd vote for one simply for the merger protection if nothing else. What I am against is whiny, complaining, little bitc-hes that have no concept of the real world, have no idea how to manage their assets and live within their means, and expect everyone else to fix their problems all the while spending every waking moment of their existance trying to figure out ways to NOT go to work.



I've got news for you skippy, you are an AIRLINE PILOT. You have a job that most people in this country would kill for. You work an average of half the month. You don't sit in a cubicle 5 days a week. Unless you are an FO, you work largely unsupervised, and never have to talk to your boss unless you f-ck up. One of my most recent days of work consisted of flying down to UVF, spending 24 hours drinking, eating, and having fun at an all-inclusive resort, and then going home. Oh, and my wife came. Yes, THAT was work. I've got it real tough.

You have no idea what the real world is like. You have no concept of the other 90%. I've been there, I've seen it. I've had a real job. I ultimately chose the pilot profession for a very simple reason: Most amount of money for least amount of work. It's painfully obvious that you would NEVER be happy, no matter what they give you. I've seen too many just like you.......they would bitch at a brick wall just to have something to bitch to.

Do us all a favor and shut the hell up. Take your worthless a$$ somewhere else and bitch there. I don't want to hear it. Improvement is not out of the realm of possibility. I'm not against it at all. I'm just against wastes of humanity such as yourself that sing a pathetic sob story when in reality you have NOTHING to sing about.

As I said earlier, piss off.

Excellent Post. I've been bitter about things in the past to. But a key thing to remember is never forget where you came from. This job has seen some major down turns in the past decade, but its still no where near as bad as some jobs. At the end of the day we still do what we love (that's why everyone on here started flying..riiight??) and we have a job. As mentioned above, I'm not against industry wide improvement in pay and work rules etc.. Just trying to put things in perspective.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Excellent Post. I've been bitter about things in the past to. But a key thing to remember is never forget where you came from. This job has seen some major down turns in the past decade, but its still no where near as bad as some jobs. At the end of the day we still do what we love (that's why everyone on here started flying..riiight??) and we have a job. As mentioned above, I'm not against industry wide improvement in pay and work rules etc.. Just trying to put things in perspective.

Exactamundo.

JB is a good place to work. Nobody is saying there isn't room for improvement, and I'm not against a union one bit. I just hate listening to people with a 200+K income bitch and whine like they're buying ramen noodles with food stamps. It's pathetic.

This is not a bad job, and there are thousands of people in the industry that would love to work here. A union is no doubt coming to JB. I think the next time there is a try, it'll pass. I honestly, truly think it would have passed this time if it weren't for the TWA lawsuit and ALPA's terrible reputation.

I, for one, am a yes vote next time it comes up, (couldn't vote this time), for one simple reason: I believe that a merger/acquisition is just a matter of time, and I want union CBA representation when that happens. The whole PEA thing is all well and good, but there is no legal precident, which means big, nasty, long court battle that we can't afford. If we had a $20 mil. war chest, we might win and our PEA might hold up, but we don't have that. If we have a CBA, we'll go to arbitration and that'll be that. Hell if AA buys us it'll be a staple anyway. If WN buys us, it'll be a lower-end relative for us with fences, similar to what Tranny got. Either is fine with me. I'm junior and I'll be at the bottom either way. The senior guys are the ones that are going to get screwed when a M & A comes. If AA buys us and we get stapled, myself and most junior guys could care less, because with retirements, we'll all be widebody captains in 10-12 years. The senior guys flying day turns making 250-300K a year will get screwed. They'll be OK for a while, b/c their seats will get fenced, but every time there are upgrades, AA FO's will upgrade to the bus, and come in senior to them. They'll lose base seniority and won't be able to do those lucrative day turns any more.

Mergers are never good for pilots anyway. But mark my word, it is coming. JB is like the foreign exchange student with big tits. Everybody wants a piece, and sooner or later somebody is going to step up and get it. It's nothing more than a question of who does it and when.

 

[captain caveman]

Thanks for all the input. Key to my move to Delta was the ability to be based in domicile. I personally hated commuting and the bed bugs at my south ozone park crashpad.

Being based in domicile allowed me to pick up premium flying at Delta in my first year, since they were short staffed at the time, resulting in a substancial instant pay raise. At the time, co-pilot pay on the 190 was deplorable and with the 1 year upgrade gone, the thought of another 2 years at that pay rate made me want to quit flying. When I had the class date at Delta, I even went to the chief pilot office in JFK and asked about pay raises. Of course, had I stayed, I would have benefited eventually from a pay raise and I would certainly be making more now as a 190 Captain compared to an 88 co-pilot. Still, I doubt I would have made up the lost pay.

Also, I was very lucky to not get furloughed after the merger with the spike in fuel costs. Instead, I survived the merger with decent relative seniority and am stuck about 8% from the bottom which is not a bad place to be living in base. I hear that movement is on the horizon. Heck, if I wanted to commute, I could fly the 767 international out of JFK. I don't think the guys that left JetBlue for United had the same luck.

The thing I miss most about JetBlue was the junior crews, the fun factor and the upgrade. I think in 4 years at delta, I've been out with the crew on a layover maybe twice. Usually it's just me and the captain who gets something to eat. Also the quality of the trips on the airbus far exceeds the md88 trips which probably more resemble 190 trips.

With negotiations coming up at Delta, we have a lot of things to work on. There is also a movement towards an independant union that is picking up momentum. I think the biggest disperity between Delta and JetBlue is the benefits. Delta has given me over $50,000 in retirement money in my 4 years and my medical premiums are a little less than they were.

I wish all my friends at JetBlue best of luck with your careers and hopefully we can all raise the bar a little.

 

[fifty30retard]

Or, in reality, you'd be paying $310 per month for medical coverage...you know, that's the medical plan that 90% of all pilots select?

Don't let the naysayers spin their so called "facts" to give a one-sided (and always negative) aspect of what's going on at JB.

There are plenty of things to fix (and, frankly, the upper end medical coverage plan is way too expensive), but there are plenty of good things happening as well.

Plenty of good things? What are they? And "fixing things" requires monetary investment which IS NOT HAPPENING and WON'T HAPPEN. They said so on the earnings call. Wake up and quit spinning this for HR, this is not a success story.

 

[$$$4nothin]

Plenty of good things? What are they? And "fixing things" requires monetary investment which IS NOT HAPPENING and WON'T HAPPEN. They said so on the earnings call. Wake up and quit spinning this for HR, this is not a success story.

More whinning. Shocker

I can name many great things here, but no matter what I say you won't see them.

 

[fifty30retard]

More whinning. Shocker

I can name many great things here, but no matter what I say you won't see them.

Witty sarcasm is that it? I can't tell. Care to definitively answer a question? You appear to have critical thought processes, but that may be debatable.

 

[StarHustler]

JB is like the foreign exchange student with big tits. Everybody wants a piece, and sooner or later somebody is going to step up and get it. It's nothing more than a question of who does it and when.

I always wanted to be that guy...

 

[fifty30retard]

More whinning. Shocker

I can name many great things here, but no matter what I say you won't see them.

Name one.

 

[Lake Alice]

I encourage anyone who has access to Delta's latest compensation review to please take a detailed look. Jetblue pilots are behind in so many areas. The only area where we are remotely close is pay. We are substantially behind in retirement, sick/vacation, scope clause, merger/aquisition language, LTD/STD, medical benefits, and many more. Now we do have a nice working environment. It's an enjoyable place to work but that is also part of the problem. Too many pilots are willing to give Jetblue a pass in all these other areas because the company is nice to you. mind boggling.

Keep in mind each "great thing" we have at Jetblue every other major carrier has something very similar if not exactly the same and should not be an excuse for accepting less. We fly more and are more efficient than EVERY OTHER AIRLINE yet we gladly accept less. Fook that! I'm embarrassed to be associated with their group sometimes and I used to be it's biggest supporter.

 

[CapnVegetto]

I encourage anyone who has access to Delta's latest compensation review to please take a detailed look. Jetblue pilots are behind in so many areas. The only area where we are remotely close is pay. We are substantially behind in retirement, sick/vacation, scope clause, merger/aquisition language, LTD/STD, medical benefits, and many more. Now we do have a nice working environment. It's an enjoyable place to work but that is also part of the problem. Too many pilots are willing to give Jetblue a pass in all these other areas because the company is nice to you. mind boggling.

Keep in mind each "great thing" we have at Jetblue every other major carrier has something very similar if not exactly the same and should not be an excuse for accepting less. We fly more and are more efficient than EVERY OTHER AIRLINE yet we gladly accept less. Fook that! I'm embarrassed to be associated with their group sometimes and I used to be it's biggest supporter.

Way I see it, we've got about 2 years max to get a union on property before a merger/acquisition happens. Going to happen, just a matter of when.

 

[Lake Alice]

In a way we need it. We have a very small footprint with no international feed. Foreign ownership is on the horizon and with our management and apathetic pilot group our future is very uncertain. Lufthansa, with two seats on our board, is threatening of selling it's remaining interest in Jetblue which I personally feel is why the CFO is no longer here. Let's be honest, how are we going to protect ourselves if a foreign carrier decides to purchase us. What leverage do we actually have?

 

[CapnVegetto]

In a way we need it. We have a very small footprint with no international feed. Foreign ownership is on the horizon and with our management and apathetic pilot group our future is very uncertain. Lufthansa, with two seats on our board, is threatening of selling it's remaining interest in Jetblue which I personally feel is why the CFO is no longer here. Let's be honest, how are we going to protect ourselves if a foreign carrier decides to purchase us. What leverage do we actually have?

I've heard British Airways is very interested in Lufthansa's stake.

But what you say makes sense. The company has tunnel vision when it comes to growth in the Carribbean and is even talking big about getting bigger equipment and going into South America. So my big question is, where in the hell are we going to get the feed for those routes?

Answer: Merger/Acquisition WN or AA or somebody we haven't thought of yet. Just a matter of time.