JetBlue question.

[Smarta$$]

Anyone know or remember how many total aircraft JB had in 2006 and 2007?

Thanks

 

[Smarta$$]

Answered my own question.

Jan 2006 = 92 total aircraft.

Jan 2007 = 119 total aircraft.

Jan 2008 = 134 total aircraft.

Today = 167 +-

 

[Flyby1206]

Not bad, think we will have over 200 a/c by 2015?

 

[n757st]

Not bad, think we will have over 200 a/c by 2015?

Depends on lease returns and the economy. I would say probably, but we'll see.

 

[johnsonrod]

In 2015 the number will be closer to 600 airplanes - if you count AA's aircraft....

 

[dingo222]

In 2015 the number will be closer to 600 airplanes - if you count AA's aircraft....

if AA is lucky. maybe the airlines will let it fold and capitalize and the massive sucking sound left behind

 

[Smarta$$]

In 2015 the number will be closer to 600 airplanes - if you count AA's aircraft....

Wow, I have yet to read a single witty or intelligent thing from you. Ever. Your last post is no exception.

 

[rjpilot7667]

In 2015 the number will be closer to 600 airplanes - if you count AA's aircraft....

AA Doesn't even have the money to pay attention, let alone buy another carrier. JB even has a larger market cap than AA.

 

[BeachBummer]

"IF" that happened... "IF"

It would roll out something like US AW. AA declares Ch11 and in order to restructure JB buys a majority stake and APA feels entitled to staple Jb pilots to the bottom. It will cause another cancer of the airline pilot "dream". Yet some how the companies and stockholders will make $$$.

Here lies the difference: The JB pilots will have $2million to play thats not fair with the APA in court. I wonder how much the APA is willing to pony up to make sure not one JB pilots gets a seniority # ahead of one of their own? Any one? I'd bet 10-20x that. So to make it a smooth transition managment will negotiate a "fair" intagration and we'll take it because here at blue jet managment has your best interest in mind.

My crystal ball told me.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

When Jetblue merges, just who is going to manage that 2 million. The PVC? 2 million gets eaten up pretty fast. Good luck.

 

[rjpilot7667]

Gotta love the paranoia.

 

[$$$4nothin]

American is losing millions of dollars a day. Losing hundreds of pilots a month. Canceling large percentages of there route structure. When AA merges it won't be hostile in any way and they are going to be thrilled to be getting an infusion of money, pilots, and route structure. Whatever pilot group merges with AA will not get to bad of deal. Union or no union. 2 million or 40 million

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Another 129 retired at AA today. I wonder how many of our TWA/AA guys will take the recall? Anyone on here taking it?

 

[BentOver]

Wow!!! That's well over 200 in the last 2 months!!!! Pretty amazing..
Any idea how long the retirements amy keep up?? The 1st of every month could get really really interesting...........

 

[Lake Alice]

When Jetblue merges, just who is going to manage that 2 million. The PVC? 2 million gets eaten up pretty fast. Good luck.

As per the charter and PPA you get none of that 2 million dollars until you exhaust your own resources. The 2 million dollars is for reimbursement only.
For some odd reason Jetblue keeps telling us that money will be immediately available should we be acquired but the 5 documents tell a different story.

 

[Fins Up]

When Jetblue merges, just who is going to manage that 2 million. The PVC? 2 million gets eaten up pretty fast. Good luck.

Supposedly there will be a "Corporate Transactions" permanent working committee. I'd like to see an account established and the money in it now rather than after the turmoil starts.

As per the charter and PPA you get none of that 2 million dollars until you exhaust your own resources. The 2 million dollars is for reimbursement only.
For some odd reason Jetblue keeps telling us that money will be immediately available should we be acquired but the 5 documents tell a different story.

I don't see anything about using your own resources first in the docs. Maybe I have an old version. In any case, the docs need to be firmed up before I vote for them.

 

[Floatplane]

AA has 12 Billion in Debt, why would B6 want anything to do with that? B6 has almost 4 Billion in Debt to deal with all on it's own. I don't see a merger between the two airlines at this point. The numbers just don't make sense. I would think SWA would benefit most by aquiring B6. The assets in JFK, BOS, and the SJU would give SWA instant access to those markets as well as slots in LGA, DCA, and LGB. That coupled with the Tranny purchase giving them access to ATL would make for a very tough competitor. AA is not going to happen in my opinion. SWA is the big player in the domestic market at this time.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

AA has 12 Billion in Debt, why would B6 want anything to do with that? B6 has almost 4 Billion in Debt to deal with all on it's own. I don't see a merger between the two airlines at this point. The numbers just don't make sense. I would think SWA would benefit most by aquiring B6. The assets in JFK, BOS, and the SJU would give SWA instant access to those markets as well as slots in LGA, DCA, and LGB. That coupled with the Tranny purchase giving them access to ATL would make for a very tough competitor. AA is not going to happen in my opinion. SWA is the big player in the domestic market at this time.

I agree. Once the AAI merger is complete SWA will be look at Jetblue again......yes again. The BOD decided in the vote that Atlanta was a bigger prize than NY the last time around. Guess that puts Jetblue in the batters box next time.

 

[Flyby1206]

I agree. Once the AAI merger is complete SWA will be look at Jetblue again......yes again. The BOD decided in the vote that Atlanta was a bigger prize than NY the last time around. Guess that puts Jetblue in the batters box next time.

Those 737s arent getting any younger either.. Switch to all Airbus would make sense

 

[BeachBummer]

Aren't they getting 737-800's?

 

[Flyby1206]

Aren't they getting 737-800's?

Yea I think so. Probably wouldn't make too much sense to have a 737 fleet and a Bus fleet, but we can dream!

 

[Lake Alice]

Supposedly there will be a "Corporate Transactions" permanent working committee. I'd like to see an account established and the money in it now rather than after the turmoil starts.



I don't see anything about using your own resources first in the docs. Maybe I have an old version. In any case, the docs need to be firmed up before I vote for them.

15 F
the Airline shall establish a fund for the sole benefit of the entire Airline pilot work group in an aggregate amount of not less than $2,000,000... , however that such fund shall be used for the sole purpose of supplementing any expenses Pilot may incur for legal representation during the seniority integration process.


Much like 3A any other airline acquiring Jetblue will force us to negotiate individually. Unlike 3A, a seniority integration does not yield a large dividend therefore pro-bono legal representation is highly unlikely.

Add to this trying to prove 15 A.(i) "manages or directs" under Control. Oh, and don't forget 15 C.(ii) "the total aggregate annual ASMs of such domestic carriers does not exceed 10% of the Airline’s annual ASMs at any time" which allows an alter ego airline with any aircraft.

I do not mean to insult you so forgive me but this is the problem with our pilot group. Most cannot read, don't care to read, trust management or PVC or whatever excuse you may think of. These documents are very bad for us. The potential benefits are greatly outweighed by the simple fact we cannot enforce any of it.

 

[mejorgy]

15 F
the Airline shall establish a fund for the sole benefit of the entire Airline pilot work group in an aggregate amount of not less than $2,000,000... , however that such fund shall be used for the sole purpose of supplementing any expenses Pilot may incur for legal representation during the seniority integration process.


Much like 3A any other airline acquiring Jetblue will force us to negotiate individually. Unlike 3A, a seniority integration does not yield a large dividend therefore pro-bono legal representation is highly unlikely.

Add to this trying to prove 15 A.(i) "manages or directs" under Control. Oh, and don't forget 15 C.(ii) "the total aggregate annual ASMs of such domestic carriers does not exceed 10% of the Airline’s annual ASMs at any time" which allows an alter ego airline with any aircraft.

I do not mean to insult you so forgive me but this is the problem with our pilot group. Most cannot read, don't care to read, trust management or PVC or whatever excuse you may think of. These documents are very bad for us. The potential benefits are greatly outweighed by the simple fact we cannot enforce any of it.

Lake...........Thank you for your post.... I am utterly dumb-founded to the fact any of my colleagues are willing to accept the language contained in 15F or the other doc's for that matter!

For god sakes guys (who are willing to accept this) Wake up and quit being so naive.

 

[BeachBummer]

Lake...........Thank you for your post.... I am utterly dumb-founded to the fact any of my colleagues are willing to accept the language contained in 15F or the other doc's for that matter!

For god sakes guys (who are willing to accept this) Wake up and quit being so naive.

or any of sec. 15 for that matter.

 

[Lake Alice]

Unfortunately the blue bayous and crains of the world continue to push a personal agenda and the rest of will be left with no job.

 

[Smarta$$]

That is pretty scary language. Where are the NO voters and koolaid drinkers to explain how this actually protects JB pilots? I think they hate unions more than they like their jobs/seniority.

 

[MikeSF340]

I'm not saying they are right or wrong, but since probably 75% of the pilots came from other unionized airlines it says something about how unions are perceived.

 

[Smarta$$]

I think it has more to do with the political winds (with some politicians and news outlets glorifying management and demonizing labor) and blaming the wrong entities for pilots degradation in earning potential.

 

[Lake Alice]

That is pretty scary language. Where are the NO voters and koolaid drinkers to explain how this actually protects JB pilots? I think they hate unions more than they like their jobs/seniority.

Whats interesting about this whole predicament is Jetblue is open about it's verbiage, desire to not protect the pilot group and the pilots group lack of interest. The majority of pilots at Jetblue will vote yes because Jetblue says the documents are industry leading and offer the protections we desire. After reading the documents nothing could be further from the truth. It's pathetic really.
I thought I was embarrassed to be associated with this pilot group after the ALPA vote but this is a whole new level.

Jetblue has told you are protected and then provided you with documents stating to the contrary.

These documents aren't even hard to read. A fifth grader could understand them.

Jetblue Airways pilot group...leading the race to the bottom and the unemployment line.

 

[1678]

I'm not saying they are right or wrong, but since probably 75% of the pilots came from other unionized airlines it says something about how unions are perceived.

This is just utterly cr#$.....

90% of the pilots I talk to about a Union, NEVER, yes never, went to a union meting or volunteered for anything to help improve their CBA at the regionals.
They just jump on the band wagon and say "The union never did anything for me."

Please bring me just one pilot who think that e.g. Pinnacle would have been better off without ALPA, and I mean NO UNION, when Mr. Trenary was trying to butcher their contract conditions. The same goes for Mesa, Eagle, Comair, Mesaba, etc. Do you really think that having no Union to represent the voice of the pilot group would have been better than at least having a seat at the table.......

For crying out loud people, WAKE UP........

A choice between ALPA, Teamsters and In-House I can accept.

But a choice between any of the above and NOTHING????????