ATN ALPA Recalls Move Forward

[malibuVride]

Great...Now we're rudderless AND spineless!!!

 

[4day]

Yes you are...

 

[bravodude]

what exactly does move forward mean

 

[labatt]

what exactly does move forward mean

A small group of pilots a few weeks ago, requested a formal meeting to have the 3 ATL LEC reps who voted against AIP1 recalled. Today that meeting took place and the majority of attendees (>150) voted to continue the process. By voting for the recall, the next and final step is all ATL pilots will have the opportunity (vote) to recall or support those reps.

Any member who attended today had one vote and was able to carry in up to 3 proxies for fellow pilots who could not attend. Never did get a final tally of how the vote went down. I'd guess 75-25. I'll predict the ATL Reps will be recalled.

 

[Ace McCoy]

It was like 208-67 in favor of recall for C & J and a little closer for T.H. but still enough.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

A little group, right. It's time for the vendetta duo to go!

 

[madjack]

Voting AIP1 down at the MEC level, dumbest move in commercial aviation history....from a union leadership perspective...they should be ridden out of town on a rail...of course a few hundred vocal pilots had their ear too...just plain stupid...of course SWAPA could be just as stupid (the members not the leadership) and vote SL10 down...which would be the BEST case scenario for the AAI pilots going into arby...

 

[scoreboardII]

So, really, what will the result be besides slapping these guys down and costing bucks to vote and train new folks for the short time till 2015 when everyone is SWAPA?

 

[Clyde Frog]

Amateur hour, again.

Sure do wish we had a management lap dog, like SWAPA has GK. Apparently he fights the battles for them.

 

[Cometman]

Amateur hour, again.

Sure do wish we had a management lap dog, like SWAPA has GK. Apparently he fights the battles for them.

Can't you come up with something new to write besides this? Why don't you get your other friends like Lear70, Ty Webb, PCL and Kharma to come online and give you some help.

 

[Sacha]

Can't you come up with something new to write besides this? Why don't you get your other friends like Lear70, Ty Webb, PCL and Kharma to come online and give you some help.

Where are those guys anyway? I guess it's hard to type when you are wearing Body Armour.....

Frog, your avatar picture could not be more appropriate......

 

[runner46]

So, really, what will the result be besides slapping these guys down and costing bucks to vote and train new folks for the short time till 2015 when everyone is SWAPA?

 

[runner46]

So, really, what will the result be besides slapping these guys down and costing bucks to vote and train new folks for the short time till 2015 when everyone is SWAPA?
- Scoreboard,these 3 have shown exceptionally poor judgement and have lied repeatedly to the group,we dont want them being able to meddle in any way during the transition period.

 

[SWA/FO]

I heard ALPA National said "take the first deal, the second deal is going to be worst"

No wonder those dudes need armed protection

 

[hairball1173]

It was kinda sporty at the meeting yesterday. To say the least.

 

[slaquer5]

Amateur hour, again.

Sure do wish we had a management lap dog, like SWAPA has GK. Apparently he fights the battles for them.

How many at AT are as bitter as you ? I sure hope you do not make it over here. I am sure you will do anything you can to try and burn this place down, thanks.

 

[Lear70]

Where are those guys anyway? I guess it's hard to type when you are wearing Body Armor..

I'm on the negotiating committee. Not commenting on here since my opinion could be construed as "official" (even though it's not and never has been).

 

[Fubijaakr]

Amateur hour, again. Sure do wish we had a management lap dog, like SWAPA has GK. Apparently he fights the battles for them.

And there you have it in a nutshell.

 

[PCL_128]

So, really, what will the result be besides slapping these guys down and costing bucks to vote and train new folks for the short time till 2015 when everyone is SWAPA?

That's exactly right. This is a waste of time and money. We're going to drop $10,000 for a vote that very well might fail to recall anybody, and if it is successful, the only thing we've accomplished is create an MEC that is nearly half vacant for a month and half during some very busy times. And then, after new elections, we'll have three brand new reps who have probably never done any union work before, and won't have a clue what they're doing.

But this is AirTran. We don't do union stability. We do infighting. As much as I'm an ALPA supporter, I actually look forward to SWAPA membership. It's not about the union, it's about the pilot group. You guys have a very unified and organized pilot group, and SWAPA is successful as a result. Our pilots will do well to see how a truly unified group can make things work.

I heard ALPA National said "take the first deal, the second deal is going to be worst"

No, ALPA National didn't give any advice one way or the other on the first deal. They merely gave the pros and cons and let the reps decide. That's how ALPA works. It isn't big brother telling you how to handle your local business.

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

Clyde, this isn't a fight on the playground. SW management supports their employees. I find it ironic in your post that you think it is a bad thing for our CEO to support us. All I hear from my buddies at other carriers is how they hate their upper management. Oh and I'll remind you ALPA turned down a very generous offer. I hope all of us can put all this crap behind us in the near future and have a prosperous career.

 

[SWA Bubba]

That's exactly right. This is a waste of time and money. We're going to drop $10,000 for a vote that very well might fail to recall anybody, and if it is successful, the only thing we've accomplished is create an MEC that is nearly half vacant for a month and half during some very busy times. And then, after new elections, we'll have three brand new reps who have probably never done any union work before, and won't have a clue what they're doing.

But this is AirTran. We don't do union stability. We do infighting. As much as I'm an ALPA supporter, I actually look forward to SWAPA membership. It's not about the union, it's about the pilot group. You guys have a very unified and organized pilot group, and SWAPA is successful as a result. Our pilots will do well to see how a truly unified group can make things work.

No, ALPA National didn't give any advice one way or the other on the first deal. They merely gave the pros and cons and let the reps decide. That's how ALPA works. It isn't big brother telling you how to handle your local business.

Good question, PCL. Obviously, it's AAI ALPA's business and not ours, but perhaps you might consider this: If those guys push for, and succeed, in a recall effort, it may have a positive short term effect even though it obviously will have little lasting effect as AAI pilot integrate. Perhaps it will be seen as a good sign to the part of SWA pilots who are pissed off. You know what I mean? There are a group of SWA pilots who feel Airtran (or at least ALPA) was "greedy" in wanting more than SL-9 offered (not to rehash that argument, but keep in mind their perspective), and maybe a recall effort will get them to change their minds. It certainly will send a message that the "average" Airtran guy is more "reasonable" than what they perceive ALPA to be. If that actually helped poeple get along for the future, it might be judged to be money well-spent. A small positional scapegoat sounds better than an entire institutional scapegoat. Who knows? Just a thought.

And besides, why worry about the money? First of all, you HAVE to spend it in this case. It's what unions are required to do; that's the point of representational organizations. Plus, as I understand it, you guys send your dues to ALPA national, and they provide money back to you to operate your business. Right? A little less than half of your contribution is pretty normal, from what I've been told. It's not as though you're gonna' get that money back from national if you don't hold a recall, right? You may as well spend as much as of ALPA's money as you can. Otherwise it stays at ALPA national, and in theory could be used by another ALPA carrier to fight you (us) in the future. Hell, you should be using ALPA money to buy every Airtran guy flag ties and white-striped epaulettes, and whatever else you can think of.

And don't worry; SWAPA people bitch a lot as well, but we seem to make it work out for the most part.

Bubba

PS Personally, I just want to keep all that money from helping Fubijaakr in any way. Other than providing him with enough money to pay his gambling debts, that is.

 

[madjack]

Dumbest decision in airline union history: not sending AIP1 out for a vote...greed and hubris cost the tranny's 100s of millions...a crime...

 

[GuppyWN]

But this is AirTran. We don't do union stability. We do infighting. As much as I'm an ALPA supporter, I actually look forward to SWAPA membership. It's not about the union, it's about the pilot group. You guys have a very unified and organized pilot group, and SWAPA is successful as a result. Our pilots will do well to see how a truly unified group can make things work.

When you have a strong company that takes care of it's employees it's easy to have a unified pilot group.

Gup

 

[rudder]

In SL9, SWAPA offerred nothing. It was GK that brought the cheque book.

In SL10, SWAPA is offering something (how much is a matter of opinion) but GK put his cheque book away.

Was it about the principle or the money? Or was is about the principle of the money?

Either way the matter moved forward and the lesson learned is that decisions have consequences. An AT no vote will not bring back SL9. But perhaps a SWAPA no vote will.

This ain't over yet.

 

[dicko]

I heard ALPA National said "take the first deal, the second deal is going to be worst"

That's incorrect.

Think about it for a moment; Given everything you know about ALPA National, their lawyers and the recent TWA lawsuit. Do you really think they said "take the deal" ?

 

[Gino230]

Funny thing is, ALPA hasn't said a thing. The only info we have gotten is from our merger committee members.

After SL9 was voted down, MEC members have been in hiding. Literally.

Who cares about the $10,000 to do a recall vote? The money has already been collected by ALPA National and we're never getting it back. Expecting those MEC reps to suddenly develop good judgement and make a good decision on our behalf after what they did is pure insanity. I don't want them making any decision for me- even if it's suggesting to Gary where to put the new toilets in the new crew lounge.

Speaking of ALPA National, they have been completely useless to us- they advised us on a process agreement that it took SWA / SWAPA about 15 days to circumvent; In the two months since SL9 everyone in every cockpit on the line has had but one question for ALPA...."Can we please have a legal opinion?" And with all of that dues money and high priced, experienced attorneys did we EVER see one? NO.

It's pretty much over barring some unforeseen event, so let's just get on with it and get back to the business of flying airplanes. I'm not happy about this deal, I'm sure many of my SWA counterparts are not either. At the end of the day we will all work at one of the best and most successful airlines in the world. Break open that 12 pack, it's time to move on.

 

[PCL_128]

When you have a strong company that takes care of it's employees it's easy to have a unified pilot group.

Gup

Very true.

 

[OldManPilot]

I am so mad about them not sending out the last one for a vote I can hardly see straight. The whole lot of them should be recalled. They cost me more than 100k with their stupid decision. I'm in the bottom 450 and did I get anything to show for it being turned down? No, not a damn thing. Stapled again. It just cost me a lot of money. So much for being represented.

 

[SWA/FO]

Think about it for a moment; Given everything you know about ALPA National, their lawyers and the recent TWA lawsuit. Do you really think they said "take the deal" ?

Just typing what I heard.

 

[Full of LUV]

Good question, PCL. Obviously, it's AAI ALPA's business and not ours, but perhaps you might consider this: If those guys push for, and succeed, in a recall effort, it may have a positive short term effect even though it obviously will have little lasting effect as AAI pilot integrate. Perhaps it will be seen as a good sign to the part of SWA pilots who are pissed off. You know what I mean? There are a group of SWA pilots who feel Airtran (or at least ALPA) was "greedy" in wanting more than SL-9 offered (not to rehash that argument, but keep in mind their perspective), and maybe a recall effort will get them to change their minds. It certainly will send a message that the "average" Airtran guy is more "reasonable" than what they perceive ALPA to be. If that actually helped poeple get along for the future, it might be judged to be money well-spent. A small positional scapegoat sounds better than an entire institutional scapegoat. Who knows? Just a thought.

And besides, why worry about the money? First of all, you HAVE to spend it in this case. It's what unions are required to do; that's the point of representational organizations. Plus, as I understand it, you guys send your dues to ALPA national, and they provide money back to you to operate your business. Right? A little less than half of your contribution is pretty normal, from what I've been told. It's not as though you're gonna' get that money back from national if you don't hold a recall, right? You may as well spend as much as of ALPA's money as you can. Otherwise it stays at ALPA national, and in theory could be used by another ALPA carrier to fight you (us) in the future. Hell, you should be using ALPA money to buy every Airtran guy flag ties and white-striped epaulettes, and whatever else you can think of.

And don't worry; SWAPA people bitch a lot as well, but we seem to make it work out for the most part.

Bubba

PS Personally, I just want to keep all that money from helping Fubijaakr in any way. Other than providing him with enough money to pay his gambling debts, that is.

Bubba,
You are clueless on the finance structure of ALPA. The more you post the more ignorant you appear. For you and everyone like you that believes ALPA national is the power and everyone else is just puppets, you are wholly incorrect. Airtran pilots make the decisions for airtran pilots. ALPA national just maintains the professionals that give advice legal and accounting.