Netjets attrition prediction--hey that rhymes!!

[pilotyip]

I do believe in the YIPsters coming pilot shortage. We have been waiting for decades but this time ... with the 1500 hr requirement ... no pilot mills promising zero time to First Officer seat will be able to fill the gap. The regionals will actually have to bump up their pay to keep people and so will the Fracs.

That is why the regionals were interviewing 200 hour pilots at their last job fair. AE hiring at 500TT 50 ME. The shortage is already hiting the regional.

 

[BentOver]

That is why the regionals were interviewing 200 hour pilots at their last job fair. AE hiring at 500TT 50 ME. The shortage is already hiting the regional.

I'm not so sure it's a shortage, but rather regional guys seeing the writing on the wall and switching to either 135/cargo to get PIC time.. Or possibly heading overseas?

There may be a shortage at the regionals, but only a self induced shortage due to their low QOL... We've got probably 12 guys at my 135 who could easily get on with a regional but make more and have a better QOL flying a small turbo-prop....They are probably 3-4000hr guys, none have any jet time, but aren't even considering a regional. And never will. Of course without any glass/jet time their options will be limited in the future..I'm a little luckier in that this is a part time thing for me until something opens up, and I've already checked the boxes with FMS/Glass/Jet PIC time etc.

 

[pilotyip]

I'm not so sure it's a shortage, but rather regional guys seeing the writing on the wall and switching to either 135/cargo to get PIC time.. Or possibly heading overseas?

There may be a shortage at the regionals, but only a self induced shortage due to their low QOL... We've got probably 12 guys at my 135 who could easily get on with a regional but make more and have a better QOL flying a small turbo-prop....They are probably 3-4000hr guys, none have any jet time, but aren't even considering a regional. And never will. Of course without any glass/jet time their options will be limited in the future..I'm a little luckier in that this is a part time thing for me until something opens up, and I've already checked the boxes with FMS/Glass/Jet PIC time etc.

boom starts at the lower end and spreads, just watch.

 

[OPECJet]

I like your thoughts on the matter, but I really think major airlines will park aircraft as retirements pick back up rather than hire in huge numbers. It's been stated for years there is too much capacity out there.

 

[Full of LUV]

I like your thoughts on the matter, but I really think major airlines will park aircraft as retirements pick back up rather than hire in huge numbers. It's been stated for years there is too much capacity out there.

They have already parked quite a bit. No more three holers left to park. If they are able to make a profit at current sizes, then reducing size isn't really required. At most majors, they are losing 5-8% of their seniority list a year by 2015. That will be a lot of capacity to park in the system.

 

[jtf]

NJA did 3 year leaves as part of the furlough prevention deal in 2009 and less than 10 people took it. You can get a one year LOA and then possibly get another and another, but it is at their discretion every year. The only descent jobs I'm seeing that I could possibly get right now are in Asia and they require huge training bonds that are for 3 years minimum. I would like to see NJASAP negotiate longer LOAs, but we don't have that at this time- only one year at a time unless there was another secret LOA I haven't heard about.

 

[OPECJet]

They have already parked quite a bit. No more three holers left to park. If they are able to make a profit at current sizes, then reducing size isn't really required. At most majors, they are losing 5-8% of their seniority list a year by 2015. That will be a lot of capacity to park in the system.

I'm thinking MD80s, and 737 Classics. We already know 50 seat RJs are dying out, and 70s may follow as fuel prices climb. Airlines will do their best to maximize their profits, and if the past is any indicator it might be attempted through shrinking (again).

 

[Mach92]

NJA did 3 year leaves as part of the furlough prevention deal in 2009 and less than 10 people took it. You can get a one year LOA and then possibly get another and another, but it is at their discretion every year. The only descent jobs I'm seeing that I could possibly get right now are in Asia and they require huge training bonds that are for 3 years minimum. I would like to see NJASAP negotiate longer LOAs, but we don't have that at this time- only one year at a time unless there was another secret LOA I haven't heard about.

You can ask for anything you want. Anything over one year NJASAP also has to agree per our CBA.

The jobs are in ASIA, seek my friend and I promise you will find.

 

[172driver]

The biggest reason NJA SIC's are not leaving in droves is that a huge percentage of them went to NJA for two reasons: 1)No turbine PIC 2)Over age 60

Unless the majors have an awakening and realize that a 5000-10,000 SIC with widely varying experience is more valuable than a 2000 hr RJ captain, there won't be much attrition from the SIC ranks, IMO.

 

[gunfyter]

They should.

I think there will be an "awakening" but it may be after the supply of regional Captains start dwindling....

Someone said GOJETS is hiring street Captains... For uke:$49K:smash:. So the supply of Captains is starting to dwindle....

But if you need the PIC time, you need the PIC time.... I wouldn't fault you for taking the $49K.

 

[ultrarunner]

Bottom line, being an SIC at NJA is not very lucrative, and a bit ridiculuous in the grand scheme of things. Let's see.. FO on an Ultra for 10 years at maybe $80K with no schedule OR !0 year FO on a MD-88, 737, or possibly 75/76 with an adjustable schedule, and more money... Easy decision....

No sched? 7 on 7 off seems pretty sched. to me. And you don't commute on your own time!

A buddy of mine at Delta just came off the narrow-body. 11 year FO. 90k last year.

 

[BentOver]

No sched? 7 on 7 off seems pretty sched. to me. And you don't commute on your own time!

A buddy of mine at Delta just came off the narrow-body. 11 year FO. 90k last year.

What are your options if your kids birthday falls mid-tour... even if you know about it a year out... My point is that it is much easier to get the days off you need in the airline world. Through either PBS bidding or trip trading. Not to mention pt. 121 bidding allows you to play in say a Monday night golf league and not miss every other week.

Not sure about you, but I've done both. Airline scheduling is much more forgiving.

And SIC at year 10 at Netjets is $81,081.. What's your point?

 

[RideandDrive]

What are your options if your kids birthday falls mid-tour... even if you know about it a year out... My point is that it is much easier to get the days off you need in the airline world. Through either PBS bidding or trip trading. Not to mention pt. 121 bidding allows you to play in say a Monday night golf league and not miss every other week.

Not sure about you, but I've done both. Airline scheduling is much more forgiving.

And SIC at year 10 at Netjets is $81,081.. What's your point?

Agreed. Plus the one thing to not forget is all of the non flying stuff you have to do to earn that $81,081

 

[glasspilot]

Constant monthly bids. Wading through the TSA every day at work. Jockeying for a jumpseat 8 to 10 times a month. Dealing with a crashpad. ALPA issues that never seem to stop...to name a few.

I'd say there is plenty of "non-flying stuff" at 121 too.

 

[FrontierFan]

live in base, bid day trips...a real PBS system.

My wife does it and I am super jelous everytime I am packing for a seven day....ugh

 

[Bluewanabe]

Yep, Netjets blows. Everyone senior should quit.

 

[gunfyter]

everyone senior to about #400 that is ...

 

[KiddDynomite]

I wish everyone would quit comparing the schedules! NJA is not nor will it ever be an airline. The fractionals are a seperate segment of the industry. First off having 3 different schedules is not efficent or practical but that's what the knuckleheads wanted and they got it. 7 and 7 does suck but it's the most efficient schedule for our operations. The idea of 18 or 15 days and the way they schedule it is assinine; there's no efficiency or cost saving measures. Everyone who wants to make it an airline needs to go back to the airlines! This idea of bidding a schedule is also assinine. If we're all on 7 & 7 what's the need for a bid other than picking a start day so you can position PTO's? The only bidding we need is for vacation and that should be quarterly not this once per year BS and then get knocked off your start date with the flush bid and screw up your plans! I personally would love a 5 & 5 but I don't see that happening. As for everything else they're just two different animals. One could always go to JB and still clean the back of the airplane! One has to make peace with where they're at. I didn't plan on NJA being a career but there could be worse. In reality the whole industry sucks!

 

[m4j2t]

Yep, Netjets blows. Everyone senior should quit.

:laugh:

 

[FLYLOW22]

Robert's Rule... Point of order...

It's actually alliterteration... Not rhyming.