Unneeded pain and cost for Pinnacle Corp. Airlines

[bri5150]

After vacancies are awarded, reductions – or displacements – are awarded next. Displacements must be followed by secondary displacements. A pilot who is displaced from his current position may displace into any position where there is a pilot junior to him. That pilot would in turn bump out the junior pilot. The net result is no change in the number of pilots in that position as one entered and one left.

It really is unfortunate that the company and union couldn't make a deal to bypass this provision in our contract until the company is properly staffed. In my opinion, this created a ton of training that didn't have to be done. Now there are some that are downgrading when we are still short Captains. It seems like this would have been a good opportunity to make a deal a la the MCB from Mesaba's bankruptcy that would benefit the union, the company, and the pilots that got downgraded.

 

[Flyprdu]

It's a Mesaba provision, and it was Mesaba holding it up. I blame your MEC.

 

[DoinTime]

It's a Mesaba provision, and it was Mesaba holding it up. I blame your MEC.

Exactly correct.

 

[bri5150]

You know what....SHUT THE HELL UP!!!! BOTH OF YOU!!! What I started this thread with would have helped alleviate the issues you have bitching about for the past week. I am sick of the b!tchin'. I am offering good ideas, and yes, I contacted my rep. In normal circumstances it is a good provision that protects seniority, but we are certainly not in normal circumstances. I think it would be a great way to save the company some money and maybe get our back scratched too. I guess I am just talking to people that want to do nothing but b!tch and not actually come up with something substantial. If you have a constructive criticism, please speak up. If you have nothing but blame placing and name calling, please bite your tounge, at least for this thread. Thank you.

 

[ChickenSled]

You know what....SHUT THE HELL UP!!!! BOTH OF YOU!!! What I started this thread with would have helped alleviate the issues you have bitching about for the past week. I am sick of the b!tchin'. I am offering good ideas, and yes, I contacted my rep. In normal circumstances it is a good provision that protects seniority, but we are certainly not in normal circumstances. I think it would be a great way to save the company some money and maybe get our back scratched too. I guess I am just talking to people that want to do nothing but b!tch and not actually come up with something substantial. If you have a constructive criticism, please speak up. If you have nothing but blame placing and name calling, please bite your tounge, at least for this thread. Thank you.

Aw puddin! Did you not get enough seniority to bump a Pinnacle guy from the left seat in JFK?

 

[Flyer1015]

At least the Mesaba MEC is doing something. It is nothing but crickets chirping on our end at 9E.

 

[sinkrate]

After vacancies are awarded, reductions – or displacements – are awarded next. Displacements must be followed by secondary displacements. A pilot who is displaced from his current position may displace into any position where there is a pilot junior to him. That pilot would in turn bump out the junior pilot. The net result is no change in the number of pilots in that position as one entered and one left.

It really is unfortunate that the company and union couldn't make a deal to bypass this provision in our contract until the company is properly staffed. In my opinion, this created a ton of training that didn't have to be done. Now there are some that are downgrading when we are still short Captains. It seems like this would have been a good opportunity to make a deal a la the MCB from Mesaba's bankruptcy that would benefit the union, the company, and the pilots that got downgraded.

PCL's agreements never had language like this. The requirement to post a vacancy that matches the number of displacements heavily tilts the game in favor of the senior pilots. It also ties the company's hands. PCL has never had language like this. The company could use secondary displacements if they had to - but they tended just to 'absorb' the displaced pilots wherever they chose to go. It resulted in significantly fewer junior pilots having their lives disrupted.

It also significantly increases training costs for the company.

This language above is from the Mesaba Agreement. The only reason for it is to ensure strict seniority is followed.

With the provisions PCL had that allowed a senior pilot to assume the displacement rights of a junior pilot and let the company absorb the displaced pilots, junior pilots were much better served.

Evidently the Mesaba negotiators did not want to do this.

 

[bri5150]

PCL's agreements never had language like this. The requirement to post a vacancy that matches the number of displacements heavily tilts the game in favor of the senior pilots. It also ties the company's hands. PCL has never had language like this. The company could use secondary displacements if they had to - but they tended just to 'absorb' the displaced pilots wherever they chose to go. It resulted in significantly fewer junior pilots having their lives disrupted.

It also significantly increases training costs for the company.

This language above is from the Mesaba Agreement. The only reason for it is to ensure strict seniority is followed.

With the provisions PCL had that allowed a senior pilot to assume the displacement rights of a junior pilot and let the company absorb the displaced pilots, junior pilots were much better served.

Evidently the Mesaba negotiators did not want to do this.

I agree with everything you said. Thank you for saying it in a civil tone. Like I said before, I think it is a good provision so the company doesn't staff new openings by reducing one area a bit in order to displace them to a new base using the junior pilots. In our current situation I think it should be relaxed in order to get this company on its feet quicker. That way we won't have to pass over more aircraft.

 

[DoinTime]

At least the Mesaba MEC is doing something.

Doing what? Driving the airline closer to the brink of bankruptcy and screwing over its own pilots? Why am I not impressed?

 

[gojo]

Doing what? Driving the airline closer to the brink of bankruptcy and screwing over its own pilots? Why am I not impressed?

After reading your posts for the last year and a half, it would seem that nothing impresses you.

 

[higney85]

The PCL128 Council is bringing forth a Resolution to reverse this language.

 

[Yodafly]

I disagree...seniority should always be followed

 

[Flyprdu]

You know what....SHUT THE HELL UP!!!! BOTH OF YOU!!! What I started this thread with would have helped alleviate the issues you have bitching about for the past week.

That's sweet of you... but the first step of resolution is identifying the problem.

1. Pinnacle MEC did not want this.
2. The company surely does not want this.
3. Colgan MEC is still trying ween the nooks from their mouths.

So by process of elimination....

It was the Mesaba MEC in the Library with the Revolver!

Your idea is admirable; they should suspend that ridiculous rule that is going to cost Pinnacle Corp millions reshuffling the pilot deck. But if nobody seems to want this, then why is it going through??

Ask your MEC.

 

[Flyprdu]

I disagree...seniority should always be followed

That's crap. Especially when integrating airlines that have been intermixed by arbitrary means.

 

[Yodafly]

well, we will just disagree on this.

This is the agreement we all signed on to, it should remain

 

[altimaklr]

Pinnacle Corp = jet-4-jobs for mesaba Saab captains.

 

[DoinTime]

This is the agreement we all signed on to, it should remain

No....The agreement should reflect the will of ITS PILOTS. Not individuals on the MECs, not individuals on whatever committees, not special interest groups, and especially not some staffers working at ALPA national.

This provision should be stricken. Senior pilots already had (and will continue to have) ample opportunity to bid these positions and they refused. Junior pilots should not have to suffer and be forced out of their positions of choosing just so some senior schmuck can retain all the choices in the world whenever he wants to make them.

 

[Flyer1015]

Um, can anyone else say conflict-of-interest by having a Mesaba guy Frank as the one who handles these vacancy awards, and not a Pinnacle or Colgan guy? Given the fact that no Pinnacle pilots were displaced out of the jet and that not a single Pinnacle pilot got awarded a Captain seat on the Saab, it is fairly obvious that the Mesaba MEC/merger committee members must have provided their interpretation of the award to Frank himself.

How else could this eff-up happen?

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Um, can anyone else say conflict-of-interest by having a Mesaba guy Frank as the one who handles these vacancy awards, and not a Pinnacle or Colgan guy? Given the fact that no Pinnacle pilots were displaced out of the jet and that not a single Pinnacle pilot got awarded a Captain seat on the Saab, it is fairly obvious that the Mesaba MEC/merger committee members must have provided their interpretation of the award to Frank himself.

How else could this eff-up happen?

Send your complaints to Phil the clown, he and his manager selection comittee chose Frank to be the VP in charge of crew management (basically the head of all crew planning in corp.)

 

[bri5150]

Um, can anyone else say conflict-of-interest by having a Mesaba guy Frank as the one who handles these vacancy awards, and not a Pinnacle or Colgan guy? Given the fact that no Pinnacle pilots were displaced out of the jet and that not a single Pinnacle pilot got awarded a Captain seat on the Saab, it is fairly obvious that the Mesaba MEC/merger committee members must have provided their interpretation of the award to Frank himself.

How else could this eff-up happen?

So, would having a Pinnacle guy do the awards not be a conflict of interest then? I don't understand your reasoning. Someone higher than Frank though he was the best to keep for that position, so he is the one that is figuring out this mess. I can tell you Frank doesn't care about me any more than Joe Blow from Pinnacle. They are all names and numbers. The process is pretty cut and dry (even if it is a mess). I am sorry Pinnacle's MEC took the stance that Saabs don't exist in negotiations (from what I hear). I am pretty sure that's why Bloch fenced Pinnacle off of them.

 

[altimaklr]

I think a lot of people are starting to realize this could easily be the beginning of the FINAL downfall of Pinnacle Corp. The ultra slim profit margin we have can not cover this massive amount of retraining, month after month, lack of productivity/downtime, on top of new high pay and work rules. Something will snap. Probably soon.

 

[flyn96]

No....The agreement should reflect the will of ITS PILOTS. Not individuals on the MECs, not individuals on whatever committees, not special interest groups, and especially not some staffers working at ALPA national.

This provision should be stricken. Senior pilots already had (and will continue to have) ample opportunity to bid these positions and they refused. Junior pilots should not have to suffer and be forced out of their positions of choosing just so some senior schmuck can retain all the choices in the world whenever he wants to make them.

Um, no for 2 years Mesaba 900's were staffed by displacements off the Saab. There were no vacancies. I was stuck on the Saab with 11 days off while people several HUNDRED numbers junior to me were getting more days off and more pay. All because I was too senior to get displaced. Pilots of similar seniority were making 35K more per year. So the old book cost me $70,000.

Current book honors seniority. Thats the way it should be. Thats the way it works in the majority of airline world. People get bumped deal with it!!!

 

[Yodafly]

Um, no for 2 years Mesaba 900's were staffed by displacements off the Saab. There were no vacancies. I was stuck on the Saab with 11 days off while people several HUNDRED numbers junior to me were getting more days off and more pay. All because I was too senior to get displaced. Pilots of similar seniority were making 35K more per year. So the old book cost me $70,000.

Current book honors seniority. Thats the way it should be. Thats the way it works in the majority of airline world. People get bumped deal with it!!!

I agree,

some day you too will want to honor seniority

 

[Flyprdu]

You idiots will be the downfall of Pinnacle, as you were the downfall of Mesaba, MAIR, etc.

 

[bri5150]

You idiots will be the downfall of Pinnacle, as you were the downfall of Mesaba, MAIR, etc.

More name calling with no reasoning why.

 

[higney85]

At least one prediction was right... Only the top 2 are happy in the end. I always thought it would be only #1.

 

[DoinTime]

Um, no for 2 years Mesaba 900's were staffed by displacements off the Saab. There were no vacancies. I was stuck on the Saab with 11 days off while people several HUNDRED numbers junior to me were getting more days off and more pay. All because I was too senior to get displaced. Pilots of similar seniority were making 35K more per year. So the old book cost me $70,000.

That problem was fixed with the addition of a pinnacle provision that allowed senior pilots to assume the displacement of a junior pilot. It has nothing to do with huge amount of secondary displacements seen on this award.

 

[jamiestrat]

You idiots will be the downfall of Pinnacle, as you were the downfall of Mesaba, MAIR, etc.

The downfall of Pinnacle came the moment Trenany and his goons decided to buy (or were given) Mesaba. They didn't have their own house in order and it has been nothing but a cluster since July 2010. THEY brought down Pinnacle, not the XJ pilots.

 

[jynxyjericho]

The downfall of Pinnacle came the moment Trenany and his goons decided to buy (or were given) Mesaba. They didn't have their own house in order and it has been nothing but a cluster since July 2010. THEY brought down Pinnacle, not the XJ pilots.

I'd also like to add that the REASON we make those provisions in the contract isn't to destroy the company, it gives us bargaining capital later on in the game. Pinnacle Corp could save millions talking to the union and getting relief through some deal, it sounds like the new CEO is actually open to that.

Phil-do got us in this mess, you'll forgive me if I'm not the first one in line willing to give Corp contract concessions due to their poor planning. Maybe stupid red neck corp should have gone to college and studied rather than doing coke all week but sunday. Why the same online voices from Pinnacle continue to rage against the Mesaba pilots and the contract is beyond me. Let the adults handle this. If you want to get run over by a company GoJets is hiring. A few clowns on here seem to have the same solution to every problem management gets themselves into, "give them whatever they want!!@!"

 

[bri5150]

That problem was fixed with the addition of a pinnacle provision that allowed senior pilots to assume the displacement of a junior pilot. It has nothing to do with huge amount of secondary displacements seen on this award.

How did that become a Pinnacle provision? We were doing it before the merger as well. Am I not right about that? I thought with the latest round of furloughs, our union started looking at that.