Airtran MEC voted no

[NuGuy]

First of all I would say you guys have done a pretty good job of pissing everybody off here at SWA at least the pilots.
Second UNFAIR, DISRESPECTFUL, what are you a baby this is business I am not here to be your friend and sing you a lullaby when you go to bed at night. This is about MY career and the careers of my fellow SWA pilots.
I never said I was disappointed with this agreement, I never said I think you guys should vote yes or no. I think you guys should have had a chance to vote on it but that's it.
You don't have to believe me, you can call me childish, a bully an a$$ I don't care but I promise you an arbitrated list will never see the light of day because there are a lot of people here that will have no problem contributing our own money to tie this up in the legal system for years to come!

It's just business.

So, in other words, you fully agree with the position and actions of USAPA and the USAir East pilots?


Nu

 

[Music]

A real letter. Wow! Nice attempt at threating something with very little leverage. I'm starting to think that SL8 might start coming into play at some point.

Red,

Whether you want to believe it or not GK just can't arbitrarily discard our entire Scope section. MVV's letter served to reaffirm SWs commitment to honor our contract. So whether you want to deny that it means anything or not, that's up to you, but a court will see it differently. Not saying that it couldn't happen, but it won't happen arbitrarily.

 

[Lear70]

I'm starting to think that SL8 might start coming into play at some point.

I'm sure it will... especially the part that says SWAPA will comply with the Process Agreement that says SWAPA will expeditiously implement the arbitrated list.

(couldn't resist)...

 

[SWA2000]

Executive Blog - August 19, 2011
From your SWAPA President, Steve Chase

Fellow pilots-

The AirTran MEC voted 7-1 against sending this agreement out to their membership for a vote.***** Regardless of your thoughts on Side Letter 9, we believe it would have been best for the pilots whose careers are at stake to have a voice in the decision.***** Now that is not likely.

We have seen discussion and received questions regarding whether our next step is mediation or arbitration.***** We’ve stated that if Side Letter 9 was not voted-in, we’d be going to arbitration.***** That was based on a voting timeframe for both memberships that would have taken place during the time that mediation was scheduled.***** With the MEC voting no, rather than either pilot group, the Process Agreement allows for mediation to occur on already scheduled dates.***** We are going to follow the Process Agreement because that’s what we do; we honor our agreements.

While we question what more SWAPA or SWA could give, we are always willing to hear what ALPA has to offer us. We will honor the process but are understandably skeptical of further progress.***** AirTran decided that $2 million extra in career earnings per pilot and a job with the best airline in aviation wasn’t enough for them.***** They want your seniority too.***** That’s not something SWAPA is willing to give them.

We have scheduled meetings to meet with the Company next week, as well as meetings in DC with our legal team.***** AirTran gave Gary a clear message on what they think of Southwest.***** We look forward to sitting down with him next week and relaying your feelings to him face-to-face.

I hope this clears up any misconceptions or appearances of misinformation.***** SWAPA is prepared to fight for your seniority and for you to continue to have the outstanding career value and Culture you have come to expect and enjoy.

Fly Safe,



Steve Chase


This is going to get interesting! Hope this doesn't go down as one of the biggest aviation blunders in HISTORY! I am sure Gary and Herb are a little pissed.

 

[4day]

You SW guys are really scared of arbitration aren't you? " It will never get implemented etc". So let me get this straight. You can join the largest , at the time, airline in the world "DELTA" by arbitration but little old SW doesn't play like that. Its our way or the highway.Dont disagree with us because we are better than you. So SW is a unmergable Airline ( if thats a word). There really is no LUV there just greed and your culture is a "cult."I still have high hopes for this but am realizing that money brings out the ugly side of people and history has shown that it wont last.

 

[shootr]

If we had merged with Delta it would have been far different. AT is not Delta...sorry if that stings. It doesn't make me better than you. But my job and future at SWA is far better than your job and future at AT. That's all there is to it. Nothing personal.

 

[texman]

You SW guys are really scared of arbitration aren't you? " It will never get implemented etc". So let me get this straight. You can join the largest , at the time, airline in the world "DELTA" by arbitration but little old SW doesn't play like that. Its our way or the highway.Dont disagree with us because we are better than you. So SW is a unmergable Airline ( if thats a word). There really is no LUV there just greed and your culture is a "cult."I still have high hopes for this but am realizing that money brings out the ugly side of people and history has shown that it wont last.

This was a dumb azz post. My QOL is more important.

 

[4day]

If we had merged with Delta it would have been far different. AT is not Delta...sorry if that stings. It doesn't make me better than you. But my job and future at SWA is far better than your job and future at AT. That's all there is to it. Nothing personal.

Its not personal. It doesn't sting. I am really starting to not care so much anymore. Just wondering what will you do if you hate the arbitration ruling? Just trying to logically understand the thought process of some SW guys. Fight ? Accept? etc. I dont have a choice, do you?

 

[bluepost]

Step back from the crack pipe junior. My seniority at AirTran as an FO buys me 19 days off 3 weekends and 110k a year. Your SWAPA scraps offered to me were a pissy staple with a 25 percent wage. No thanks. I'll take the risks in arbitration. Where are you getting this 50 percent raise with dropped trips?

Not sure what your hire date is but a 2006 hire SW MDW guy made 160k last year with EVERY weekend off.....not counting profit sharing. He would be closing in on 170k this year on his 6th year pay schedule.....again not counting PSharing....and his $200 a month insurance.

So at SW you could have EVERY weekend off, drop a third of the above guys trips and still pull in your 110k....or at a drop of a hat you could make 180k a year if you needed to.

 

[canyonblue]

You can join the largest , at the time, airline in the world "DELTA" by arbitration but little old SW doesn't play like that. Its our way or the highway.Dont disagree with us because we are better than you. So SW is a unmergable Airline ( if thats a word).

You weren't invited to the party pal. You came along with an Uncle and at first we said, ok, enjoy yourself. Then you got drunk and threw up on my Uncle and trashed the house before you passed out in the bathtub. We just don't want to see you for awhile, if at all. So yeah, I guess you could say don't F'n piss us off.

 

[carl p]

but there many junior captains at the meeting who said they would downgrade to keep their seniority.

You were there and heard this?? Are you saying there are guys that are willing to fly as SWA Sr FOs vs AAI Jr CP??

I've heard several Jr. Capt's I've flown with say this. The problem with the AIP was that they couldn't give up the slot because they lost so much seniority and wouldn't even be a senior FO. That to me was a major flaw in the deal. Almost everyone I've flown with has said the sacrifices made to save every Capt seat were simply too great at the expense of the rest of the list. I can see where some middle ground could lead to a new deal.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Was that the guy I said a friendly "Hi" to with a smile on a moving walkway in MDW? He replied with "You're welcome."
You guys are really full of yourself.

 

[canyonblue]

Just wondering what will you do if you hate the arbitration ruling?

We could ask the same of you.

I am thinking it will be much worse for AAI.

 

[canyonblue]

Was that the guy I said a friendly "Hi" to with a smile on a moving walkway in MDW? He replied with "You're welcome."
You guys are really full of yourself.

Don't worry, I'm sure you will get a "HI" from 1 out of every 8 guys. And who is really full of themselves?

 

[Nindiri]

You weren't invited to the party pal. You came along with an Uncle and at first we said, ok, enjoy yourself. Then you got drunk and threw up on my Uncle and trashed the house before you passed out in the bathtub. We just don't want to see you for awhile, if at all. So yeah, I guess you could say don't F'n piss us off.

Now that is quality anger.

 

[canyonblue]

Now that is quality anger.

Thanks brother, it took a few minutes of stabbing my hand.

 

[Lear70]

Not sure what your hire date is but a 2006 hire SW MDW guy made 160k last year with EVERY weekend off.....not counting profit sharing. He would be closing in on 170k this year on his 6th year pay schedule.....again not counting PSharing....and his $200 a month insurance.

So at SW you could have EVERY weekend off, drop a third of the above guys trips and still pull in your 110k....or at a drop of a hat you could make 180k a year if you needed to.

I think you're missing the part where he's an F/O that's included in the STAPLE "Club 649". That means he'll have the seniority equivalent to a new-hire, in the bottom 11%.

I don't think that holds weekends off... could be wrong.

 

[PCL_128]

We could ask the same of you.

We will abide by the arbitrator's award and move on as a combined company. That's what was agreed to at the beginning of this process, and honorable people honor their agreements, just as Captain Chase said in his latest update.

 

[Sacha]

Was that the guy I said a friendly "Hi" to with a smile on a moving walkway in MDW? He replied with "You're welcome."
You guys are really full of yourself.

Maybe he is one of those military guys you and Sean Penn hate so much.

 

[4day]

We could ask the same of you.

I am thinking it will be much worse for AAI.

I am 99.9% sure a arbitration ruling , regardless of who has the favor, would never be challenged by ATN pilots. It cant be any where near that proposal so we only can get better. Will SWAPA take the ball and go home until GK say's you have to share? Or stay and play two on two with Delta. Not looking for a argument just asking.

 

[4day]

We will abide by the arbitrator's award and move on as a combined company. That's what was agreed to at the beginning of this process, and honorable people honor their agreements, just as Captain Chase said in his latest update.

Good to here. Hope it comes true....For all of us...

 

[Bwipilot]

The nice part for the SWA guys is that we still get to work under our contract while the whole thing plays out.

I'd say SWA guys aren't as afraid of arbitration is that we're wondering as a group why the Airtran MEC wouldn't even let it go to a vote. Most SWA guys expected more from the AIP but were at least taking a look at it. Our wonder is more like, "What the #@*& do the AAI guys expect?"

As many have noted before, the more the AAI pilots steer towards relative seniority, the harder the SWA pilots push for staple or if not, then fence and flush. It's going to be a long, nasty affair. The AIP wasn't great for either side--but it would've been better than the highway this mesh is going to go down.

Signing off until Jan 1st. Maybe a New Year will bring something better.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

If we had merged with Delta it would have been far different. AT is not Delta...sorry if that stings. It doesn't make me better than you. But my job and future at SWA is far better than your job and future at AT. That's all there is to it. Nothing personal.

The arrogance is SO top-notch!!

I just sat down with a big 'ol bag of popcorn for this show.

Good on ya AT group.....some at SWA need some humility.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

The nice part for the SWA guys is that we still get to work under our contract while the whole thing plays out.

I'd say SWA guys aren't as afraid of arbitration is that we're wondering as a group why the Airtran MEC wouldn't even let it go to a vote. Most SWA guys expected more from the AIP but were at least taking a look at it. Our wonder is more like, "What the #@*& do the AAI guys expect?"

As many have noted before, the more the AAI pilots steer towards relative seniority, the harder the SWA pilots push for staple or if not, then fence and flush. It's going to be a long, nasty affair. The AIP wasn't great for either side--but it would've been better than the highway this mesh is going to go down.

Signing off until Jan 1st. Maybe a New Year will bring something better.

Fence?? This is Rich!!!!

 

[Lear70]

AirTran gave Gary a clear message on what they think of Southwest.

YGBFSM... Really???

It's a clear message on what was thought of the SIA, not of Southwest.

Who writes these things? Passive-Aggressive lately? lol

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

You weren't invited to the party pal. You came along with an Uncle and at first we said, ok, enjoy yourself. Then you got drunk and threw up on my Uncle and trashed the house before you passed out in the bathtub. We just don't want to see you for awhile, if at all. So yeah, I guess you could say don't F'n piss us off.

Classic!!!

Canyon wants to fondle the uncle before showing him the door!!!

Get over yourselves!!

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Maybe he is one of those military guys you and Sean Penn hate so much.

Sacha, you're an agnry tool.
I don't hate military guys, but if you don't think there is a lot of "waste" in DoD then talk to oyur FOs, they will fill you in.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I hate to be Debbie Downer, but I see that as less and less likely. I've heard some rather interesting stories about how AAI crews have recently interacted with ours. Already getting ugly out on the line.

Begging for a staple (from anyone) just prior to the SW announcement, and now wanting their seniority AND the SW contract as a kicker. That's a pretty huge 'Snake River Canyon' jump. Most people would be quick to agree.

RF

Not me Red.....when your boys bust out a stapler "or else"......the BS is floating to the top watching you SWA guys get your panties in a wad....You all knew It was a POS from the day you floated it hoping the AT group would buy the veiled "man behind the holding company" threats and now ya gotta actually prove to an arbitrator that you are so special!!!

Defensive? Having a Midol Moment? you'd never know it by the "rational" threats being tossed out by SWA types.

 

[canyonblue]

Lumbcrap is back, I guess Little Caesars closes at 11. :laugh:

 

[canyonblue]

It cant be any where near that proposal so we only can get better.

The same thing said by two different sides, can't wait to see this.