SWAPA Info packet FEDEXed to all AirTran Pilots

[Lear70]

Madjack,

Good, reasoned posts. I'm finding it difficult to understand why the AAI group can't seem to get their mind around the idea that the SWA pilot group can, indeed, be negatively impacted through this acquisition. And that something will need to be done to address that fact.

Who says we can't?

There are scenarios that would hurt the SWA pilots and many of us have gone on record saying that wouldn't be fair and that we don't want that. We absolutely recognize that it should and WILL be addressed.

There are plenty of ways to eliminate most of that negative impact that don't involve a Swingline for large portions of our group and I trust our respective negotiators to find that "sweet spot".

Keep the faith, don't stress it, it'll all work out. :beer:

 

[Britpilot]

Got the packet, not offended, thought it was interesting info.
I will wait and see what the negotiated SLI is and vote accordingly.

 

[Lear70]

I have no dog in this fight, and I don't have any comment on fair SLI's. But I have to say to my SWA friends, you guys bought a carrier with an RLA/NMB recognized, organized pilot group. The FedGov dictates the process, not the individual pilots of either carrier. Be nice to the AAI pilots, they are not able to control the situation. Additionally, they've fought the good fight for years and years against a management team that is 180 degrees opposite to yours. Think of it this way: if you adopt an abused dog from the animal shelter - you either have to accept that it has issues and treat it accordingly until it comes around, or you get bit. If you get bit, you blame the dog and put it to sleep, but did you really accomplish anything at the end of the day?

I'm not sure whether I just got insulted or not...

Woof. lol

 

[Cruncher]

Is the packet SWA sent posted anywhere?

In lieu of reading dozens of pages of why everyone is pissed, I'd like to get an idea of what was in it.

 

[flynvixen]

Trannies gonna learn the hard way what it means to have no leverage.

Remember ALPA never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity. If they don't get with the program soon and stop dragging their feet they are going to find themselves working for Texas Sub (formally Guadalupe Airways)

I hope Gary lays it out in real plan english for them so there is no missing the point on what is coming their way.

The greed and sense of entitlement of these guys is absolutely incredible.

I feel a real USAir moment may be coming our way if this sh@#t sandwich is not flushed ASAP.

The Clampets will never be happy until we are stapled on the bottom of their list, thats just the way these things go. I hope we fence them off, operate them separately for a while until they get the message and then if they don't want to play nice, start offing the RJ's and the crews with them until the rest of them decide they will take a interview date.

Had a AT guy on the jump seat last night wearing the one love lanyard, (I will wear one when I see the SLI list) seemed like a nice enough guy I hope ALPA and the greedy union wackos don't screw it up for him and those like him.

take the staple and get on the list or you may find yourself inside the fence for a long time.

Staple staple

 

[Kharma Police]

Remember ALPA never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity. If they don't get with the program soon and stop dragging their feet they are going to find themselves working for Texas Sub (formally Guadalupe Airways)

I hope Gary lays it out in real plan english for them so there is no missing the point on what is coming their way.

The greed and sense of entitlement of these guys is absolutely incredible.

I feel a real USAir moment may be coming our way if this sh@#t sandwich is not flushed ASAP.

The Clampets will never be happy until we are stapled on the bottom of their list, thats just the way these things go. I hope we fence them off, operate them separately for a while until they get the message and then if they don't want to play nice, start offing the RJ's and the crews with them until the rest of them decide they will take a interview date.

Had a AT guy on the jump seat last night wearing the one love lanyard, (I will wear one when I see the SLI list) seemed like a nice enough guy I hope ALPA and the greedy union wackos don't screw it up for him and those like him.

take the staple and get on the list or you may find yourself inside the fence for a long time.

Staple staple

Oh snap!, you left out, "ALPA job killing machine" in your post! Please edit and put it in!

 

[Lear70]

Please stop quoting the Village Idiot... he's on my ignore list so I don't have to bother time reading what is, pretty much, the same post again,,, and again,,, and again.

He and Baghdad Bob are like Groundhog Day on here.

 

[flynvixen]

Oh snap!, you left out, "ALPA job killing machine" in your post! Please edit and put it in!

Facts are the facts and poor Lear70 seems to be tired of hearing them so he blocks my posts, ????? The big lie you guys tell yourselves all day is falling apart and I think you guys will really be melting down after next weeks meeting ?? cant wait to hear the details on that one.

One more time, what is it we are getting out of this deal ???? that is anywhere close to what you guys are getting ???........hurry look it up in your ALPA talking points.......you get all the money and you want our seats too ????.......WTFO........ tell me how "growth and ATL help our 8, 9 and 10 year FO's upgrade when the Clampets take the seat they are not entitled to??????......... tell me one more time how it is fair a 7 year Tranny gets a left seat ahead of our 10 year FO, lets hear it, get the talking points out and tell me how in APLA's warped way of thats fair ?????.............................. anyone anyone

I thought so....crickets .......crickets.........


Staple staple

 

[dicko]

I'm not offended by this packet. Not even slightly. Although, it is information that has been presented before. Many times.

The SWA VP of Flt Ops stated "when we merge" and SWAPA stated "if".
There is an obvious disconnect and it's for an obvious reason. Luckily SWA
Management gets to decide in the end.

 

[Just thinking]

Bump us out of our seats and pay protect or don't pay protect.... increase cost for training because all of the SWA FO's will have to train in the 717..... increase training cost because those displaced will bid over to the 737 FO side...... SEAT LOCK for the "NEW" 717 Captains..... Massive growth happens... those bumped out of their seat will now bid to 737 Captain since there won't be much growth for the 717 since it is a dead plane and going to pay less since the rates are being negotiated. Maybe those of use will have the chance to bid the the 787 that will be dangled next week to get the boys to play nice with each other. Maybe Gary will tire of this and take and early retirement and the next managment team will come in with the skill sets of every other airline management and totally screw everything up. NOBODY has a crystal ball and I could get wiped out crossing the street in ATL trying to catch the MARTA......
Is it really worth all the venom that is spewed. No matter what happens this pilot group (on both sides) will continue to do the job that we have always done. Some of these professional pilots that have endured years of crap from a management team that could care less about the pilot group. Much larger and much better companies have failed.
Here's to the future for ALL OF US

 

[SWA/FO]

:beer: alright dicko! Now your talking.

:cartman:

 

[Skybus]

Sorry you view it in this context. Quite honestly SWA may not be a good fit for you after all.

Bus

It was from SWAPA . . . . I don't think it will be received as intended . . . . bypassing the Union and sending stuff to the pilots' homes goes against the spirit of negotiations, and smells a little desperate.

Have a great weekend, I'm outta here.

TW:laugh:

 

[FlyinGuy]

All I can say is WOW!!! The response from the AI guys on here absolutely blows me away. I have not talked to many AI guys on the road but if this is 10% of their group, I sure hope SWA is paying attention.

I read one poster state that "when" he becomes a member of SWAPA...like it is a guarantee. Some of you are acting like that just because there is a process agreement that this thing cannot be scrapped. Have you really thought some of these "nuclear" scenarios through? Do you know how easy it would be to split up your operation, give you some online training and start swapping out your 700's for our 300's...then retiring them from the sub company. Integration is not a given. I am not advocating this, but if Gary thinks this is going south he will not hesitate to protect his airline!!! (i.e. Never merging operations)

I know you guys are trying to fight for everything you can get....but really...WOW!!!

 

[DonVerita]

It seems the majority just want to get this done and get over to Southwest and be done with AirTran and ALPA for good.

Bill...you're half right.

Yes, the majority of ATN pilots DO want to get rid of AirTran management. That is undisputably correct.

However, it is a bit uninformed of you to take a jab at ATN ALPA, seeing how you are not part of ALPA or ATN. As an outsider looking in, you probably don't know the history of our former in-house union called the NPA. It was an unmitigated disaster, ruled and fueled by incompentents of the highest order. With ALPA, all of that went away and we were finally represented by a major airline union. We've made great strides with ALPA's help. It hasn't been all roses, but it's clearly been a night and day difference from NPA. And that too, is indisputable.

On to the topic at hand: I received the folder just like the rest of us. I like to refer to it as the intro to the Intro, as I know much more detailed information will be given to us down the road about everything that was listed in there. My problem is not with the content, but rather with the delivery. While I understand that SWAPA and even SWA management sends things directly to your pilots homes from time to time, a mailing such as this; taking place during SLI negotiations, could be interpreted or viewed as an end-run play around ATN ALPA. Whether this is true or not, it is the perception of impropriety that gets the attention. Would it have been that difficult to simply have consulted with ATN ALPA first so that our MEC didn't feel blindsided? A little communication and maybe even some collaboration would have yielded a better and more uniform result IMHO.

DV

 

[GoodTimes]

Don,

Do you know for sure that your negotiating committee was unaware of this info being sent out?

 

[Lear70]

Don,

Do you know for sure that your negotiating committee was unaware of this info being sent out?

Yes, we do know for sure. The Merger Committee gave us a message board update stating that they had no idea and would give us more information as they got it. Then yesterday the MEC sent out a more formal email to everyone, parts of it included below:

July 9, 2011


Fellow Pilots,

By now, presumably all of you have received a FedEx package from SWAPA. No advance notice was given to either the ATN MEC or the ATN Merger Committee that these packages would be sent, and no input was solicited. Furthermore, the MEC has been in contact with Southwest Airlines management.

We can only speculate as to the motivation for this mailing. It would, however, appear by the timing and method of delivery that it was meant to coincide with the Merger Committee's trip to Dallas this coming week, where they have been told to expect a comprehensive briefing from Southwest Airlines, followed by more seniority list integration negotiations...

 

[RLAblows]

All I can say is WOW!!! The response from the AI guys on here absolutely blows me away. I have not talked to many AI guys on the road but if this is 10% of their group, I sure hope SWA is paying attention.

I read one poster state that "when" he becomes a member of SWAPA...like it is a guarantee. Some of you are acting like that just because there is a process agreement that this thing cannot be scrapped. Have you really thought some of these "nuclear" scenarios through? Do you know how easy it would be to split up your operation, give you some online training and start swapping out your 700's for our 300's...then retiring them from the sub company. Integration is not a given. I am not advocating this, but if Gary thinks this is going south he will not hesitate to protect his airline!!! (i.e. Never merging operations)

I know you guys are trying to fight for everything you can get....but really...WOW!!!

Where did you come up with 10%?

 

[Kharma Police]

All I can say is WOW!!! The response from the AI guys on here absolutely blows me away. I have not talked to many AI guys on the road but if this is 10% of their group, I sure hope SWA is paying attention.

I read one poster state that "when" he becomes a member of SWAPA...like it is a guarantee. Some of you are acting like that just because there is a process agreement that this thing cannot be scrapped. Have you really thought some of these "nuclear" scenarios through? Do you know how easy it would be to split up your operation, give you some online training and start swapping out your 700's for our 300's...then retiring them from the sub company. Integration is not a given. I am not advocating this, but if Gary thinks this is going south he will not hesitate to protect his airline!!! (i.e. Never merging operations)

I know you guys are trying to fight for everything you can get....but really...WOW!!!

What is it with you guys and threats? Give it a rest, Gary Kelly I'm sure could summon Godzilla to destroy us if he wanted or cause an earthquake to swallow us or send the locusts. The fact of the matter is this board is BS and the committees are trying to work the process out as agreed. Your union for whatever reason, maybe out of fear or desperation is trying to undermine the process with this little stunt, and The KP no like! If you could remove yourself from your present perspective and think about it objectively, I'm sure you would come to the same conclusion. Look at the timing and if you have access, look at the content.

 

[redflyer65]

From the AAI email..."where they have been told to expect a comprehensive briefing from Southwest Airlines"

I'd say that might be an understatement. SW management can be very tough at negotiations, this might be a watershed event.

For months the AAI guys have been denying that Southwest management was more than just distantly involved in this process and that any 'nuclear options' were just speculation from all the SWAPA pilots. I'd say the curtain is starting to roll back on how involved Gary will be in this process.

 

[madjack]

Ty Webb you are right if you keep ur CP seat I, a senior FO @ SWA won't LOSE anything. But why would I agree to a deal where you GAIN pay, seniority and employment at a better company while I GAIN nothing...who's not sharing the toys? As far as [email protected] COMPANY WAS SOLD....That in the busines world is the antithesis of growth.