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Pinnacle and Frontier

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Flyer1015

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 13, 2004
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First, their CEO. Now, their CFO.

Coincidence?

If Republic spins off Frontier, I'm thinking Pinnacle "Holdings" will acquire Frontier.

Thoughts?
 
Would really be surprised to see this acquisition on the part of Pinnacle Holdings, but there are some aspects of it that would make sense from a strategic business plan. I believe that the CRJ-200 contracts are up for bid in 2017 and there doesn't appear to be much interest on the part of any codeshares to continue operating anything with less than 70-seats on the jet side. Having the airbus operation out of DEN, adding more Q-400s/Q-400Xs/CRJ-900s and ridding themselves of the 200s would have the company in a position to be competitive in the volatile codeshare "wars" that are going to be taking place in the middle of the decade.
There is going to continue to be a consolidation/reduction of capacity within the airline industry. Less flights running full with less frequency on bigger, more fuel efficient airplanes is the way to go. To stay in business you have to keep your capacity to the point where you can dictate the ticket price. The only vulnerability would be Southwest seeing blood in the water and running you out of town with their own brand of marketshare take-over. There model is volume with low yields, who is going to win this war is anyone's guess, but I think that SWA is close to reaching critical mass with their business model. They are gambling with the AirTran deal and will make them or break them. Going head-to-head with Delta is a going to be interesting...
 
F9 would have to come under our list (another sli arbitration), AND JCBA if acquired. It would get ugly. I don't see it happening but we never truly forecasted the last 2 Corp moves.
 
Frontier continues to get pummeled by SWA and UAL in Denver and Airtran in Millwaukee. If BB is considering this, he wouldnt be dumping it without a reason. If those of you at Pinnacle think you might be able to fly those Emb190s or A320s for Delta, I think you will be mistaken. Nothing over 76 seats for any DCI carrier. That just won't change, regardless of what some of you think.


OYS
 
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Boss brings along his staff. Expect to see others.
 
On Your Six said:
Frontier continues to get pummeled by SWA and UAL in Denver and Airtran in Millwaukee. If BB is considering this, he wouldnt be dumping it without a reason. If those of you at Pinnacle think you might be able to fly those Emb190s or A320s for Delta, I think you will be mistaken. Nothing over 76 seats for any DCI carrier. That just won't change, regardless of what some of you think.


OYS
Click to expand...


Haha thats funny. You major guys act like we have any control over it at all. If one of those airbi come to pinnacle one day, Im going to fly it because thats who i work for until i get hired somewhere else. Its your job to control your scope clause and i wish you better luck than the last 5 times its been tried. All of us would just love to fly for mainline but you have prevented it with your scope sales and age 65 limits
 
On Your Six said:
If those of you at Pinnacle think you might be able to fly those Emb190s or A320s for Delta, I think you will be mistaken. Nothing over 76 seats for any DCI carrier. That just won't change, regardless of what some of you think.


OYS
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that this scenario is even remotely close to reality but all PNCL Corp would have to do is operate Frontier (or any other big equipment carrier) on a different operating certificate and Delta Scope has been trumped. Unlike Delta pilots, Pinnacle Corp pilots have options outside of Delta.
 
DoinTime said:
I'm not saying that this scenario is even remotely close to reality but all PNCL Corp would have to do is operate Frontier (or any other big equipment carrier) on a different operating certificate and Delta Scope has been trumped. Unlike Delta pilots, Pinnacle Corp pilots have options outside of Delta.
Click to expand...

Why would Delta pilots want to do other flying other than Delta's? Good for you guys? The point is 190/320 flying will not be for Delta. You can fly Frontier and lose money for yourself, but nothing connected to Delta. That is a fact. BB flies Frontier alone, and has DCI stuff separate. No code share, no brand flying. You are right that our Scope needs to be tightened even more, and your example will be a catalyst for the eventual opener. But, you won't see Pinnacle 190s flying for Delta without mainline crews. I personally think you should fly it yourself like Independance Air, which might do better than the current Frontier.


OYS
 
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i fly boxes said:
Haha thats funny. You major guys act like we have any control over it at all. If one of those airbi come to pinnacle one day, Im going to fly it because thats who i work for until i get hired somewhere else. Its your job to control your scope clause and i wish you better luck than the last 5 times its been tried. All of us would just love to fly for mainline but you have prevented it with your scope sales and age 65 limits
Click to expand...

Do you think we liked Age 65? No. And the majority of the scope sale was done in BK, with both of my legacy employers. Now the airlines are more healthy, meaning BK isn't an option to gain more. Age 65 is approaching for many legacies, with thousands of retirements in the next 5 years. But, what scope is left won't be sold, and you can fly 320s for Frontier, but it won't be connected to any legacy most likely, because the remaining pilots are pissed. You have a much better chance of actually getting hired at a Major than flying a 190 or 320 for a regional working for a Major. No budging.


OYS
 
On Your Six said:
but it won't be connected to any legacy most likely, because the remaining pilots are pissed. OYS
Click to expand...

HAHA left yoself an out there Jenny, er, I mean Oy-Yo-Yo! ooh the "pilots are pissed". ya think RA really gives a chit huh do ya

PUTZ!
 
Any day Mainline wants to step up to the bat on scope please do. Fouling it off doesn't count.

Anyway, the CEO is going to bring in the people he wants, fairly SOP. No need to get wound up on a Frontier buy Flyer.
 
Freebrd said:
HAHA left yoself an out there Jenny, er, I mean Oy-Yo-Yo! ooh the "pilots are pissed". ya think RA really gives a chit huh do ya

PUTZ!
Click to expand...

I don't have insider info like you do, so there is always an out. The main thing you need to understand is that we do have scope that doesn't allow any DCI carrier anything over 76 seats, and limited numbers at that. RA may want to change that, but I am thinking the majority will quickly vote no. Stop crying freeturd.


OYS
 
On Your Six said:
I don't have insider info like you do, so there is always an out. The main thing you need to understand is that we do have scope that doesn't allow any DCI carrier anything over 76 seats, and limited numbers at that. RA may want to change that, but I am thinking the majority will quickly vote no. Stop crying freeturd.


OYS
Click to expand...
They've never held the line on scope before, so why should they start now. RA will rattle a saber and the mainline pilots will sell out scope just as they've done before, numerous times. Then, somehow, these same mainline geniuses will blame the regional pilots for flying them. And blame them for the demise of the industry.

I hope you can hold the line on scope... My career depends on it... But I doubt it will happen.
 
On Your Six said:
Do you think we liked Age 65? No. And the majority of the scope sale was done in BK, with both of my legacy employers. Now the airlines are more healthy, meaning BK isn't an option to gain more. Age 65 is approaching for many legacies, with thousands of retirements in the next 5 years. But, what scope is left won't be sold, and you can fly 320s for Frontier, but it won't be connected to any legacy most likely, because the remaining pilots are pissed. You have a much better chance of actually getting hired at a Major than flying a 190 or 320 for a regional working for a Major. No budging.


OYS
Click to expand...

If all RJ flying ended today it would add a small number of the lowest paying narrow body jobs at the majors. The real threat to your career is Emirates/Qatari/Etihad/Air China. These airlines are coming after - and taking - your wide body jobs in large numbers. They are doing it with non union, low cost, young labor. Look at their order books for 380's/777's. Read the international financial press. The leaders at BA, Lufthansa and Air France have all said these Mesa's of the international widebody set threaten their very survival. Many financial/business analysts do not believe ANY legacy international carrier will survive in their present form. Emirates is well on their way to running Delta, along with the rest of them, out of Africa and the middle east and is turning it's attention to the far east next. Paul Rice understood the issue clearly but all the membership wanted to talk about was scope. It amazes me how 'main line' line pilots are no better than management at missing the dollars because they are too focused on the pennys on the ground.

If Delta pilot's 'scope out' todays RJ pilots a good number of them will go over seas - and take your wide body job from you. You will love that MD-88 from ATL to CLT for the rest of your career.

Why a Delta pilot chimed in on an extremely speculative post about the future of a regional simply high lights my point.
 
sinkrate said:
If Delta pilot's 'scope out' todays RJ pilots a good number of them will go over seas - and take your wide body job from you. You will love that MD-88 from ATL to CLT for the rest of your career.
Click to expand...

So we are stealing your flying now, and if you scope out your flying on the domestic side we will steal your jobs on the international side? So either way it's our fault and not your own for selling scope on your own jobs? Someone pass me a beer, I love these clowns.
 
CptMurf said:
They've never held the line on scope before, so why should they start now. RA will rattle a saber and the mainline pilots will sell out scope just as they've done before, numerous times. Then, somehow, these same mainline geniuses will blame the regional pilots for flying them. And blame them for the demise of the industry.

I hope you can hold the line on scope... My career depends on it... But I doubt it will happen.
Click to expand...

That is wrong. There was an allowance for 70 seaters just prior to 9-11 that probably shouldn't have been allowed looking back now, but the 76b seat limit was handed to Dalpa in Bankruptcy. When a judge says you will do it, unfortunately you do it. Did Dalpa give in recently during the joint contract with the Northwest pilots? No. The other thing you aren't realizing is that the Delta pilots may have given in before, but not 100%. It was always a slim majority. Now throw in the FNWA pilots, who always stood up to their management. They struck and got things done that way. Add them to this group, and then there is a different majority, one that is tired of the BS. Then, throw LM towards running ALPA National, and that takes away another factor in past negotiations. So, more things are leaning towards holding the line, which is good for everyone.



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Great to hear from the major guys pipe in as long as they do not say it is the regional pilots fault for scope encroachment-the international problem is just beyond me. It is a good opportunity for some who need a job when there are very little opportunities here at home. What can we as pilots do about that? I do not know.
 
General Lee said:
That is wrong. There was an allowance for 70 seaters just prior to 9-11 that probably shouldn't have been allowed looking back now, but the 76b seat limit was handed to Dalpa in Bankruptcy. When a judge says you will do it, unfortunately you do it. Did Dalpa give in recently during the joint contract with the Northwest pilots? No. The other thing you aren't realizing is that the Delta pilots may have given in before, but not 100%. It was always a slim majority. Now throw in the FNWA pilots, who always stood up to their management. They struck and got things done that way. Add them to this group, and then there is a different majority, one that is tired of the BS. Then, throw LM towards running ALPA National, and that takes away another factor in past negotiations. So, more things are leaning towards holding the line, which is good for everyone.



Bye Bye--General Lee
Click to expand...
I'll tell you what then.... Prove it.

Quit bashing the regional guys as if it's their fault. Hold the line on scope, better yet, take back all the flying above 50 seats. Seriously, do it. It's what the regional guys would like... More opportunity to move on to the majors. I won't hold my breath on it, but I would like to see it happen.
 

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