Love the JetBlue anti-union propaganda....

[ualdriver]

http://www.jetbluefacts.com/

Just the "facts" he-he. I think Dave is really, really scared.

 

[flynvixen]

http://www.jetbluefacts.com/

Just the "facts" he-he. I think Dave is really, really scared.

the facts are the facts and Dave is probably scared the end of Jet blue in near.......but just the facts right......ALPA will destroy Jet blue, just look at the broken promises at United. They were promised the world and look at them now ??? I know I know it wasnt ALPA and the lazy no work for top dollar contract they forced on the company it was all managements fault right or the Flight Attendants or the Mechs right it was never that fault of ALPA or lazy pilots that would not fly.......

ALPA will be the end of jet blue, I know I know they have told the union wackos over there that they will save them and get them one of those great top dollar for sitting at home running the yogurt shop contracts. ALPA talks a big talk but never delivers.

Good luck vote no if you don't want to be in the unemployment line soon.

 

[dane]

Hm

Well, hm ,ah...

Flynvixens analysis is somewhat simplistic.

I dont buy the unions-ruin-the-company line. It was invented by management for just this kind of situation(Jetblue). The classic example of the opposite is Southwest, the most heavily unionized airline in the US.

I just wish they would leave family references out of their attempts to influence me. That is pathetic and low.

Dane

 

[redflyer65]

I'm not against you guys organizing, but that one page on ALPA/APA losses over all the years is pretty eye opening. Putting everything that has been lost on one page is overwhelming.

I think an in-house union might be better, but that failed last go around didn't it?

RF

 

[Flyby1206]

I think an in-house union might be better, but that failed last go around didn't it?

RF

It did, but I think this time around it would have much more support. My prediction is that ALPA fails on this drive, but within a year later we vote an in-house union. The in-house structure is already there, we just need to vote for it.

 

[nimtz]

the facts are the facts and Dave is probably scared the end of Jet blue in near.......but just the facts right......ALPA will destroy Jet blue, just look at the broken promises at United. They were promised the world and look at them now ??? I know I know it wasnt ALPA and the lazy no work for top dollar contract they forced on the company it was all managements fault right or the Flight Attendants or the Mechs right it was never that fault of ALPA or lazy pilots that would not fly.......

ALPA will be the end of jet blue, I know I know they have told the union wackos over there that they will save them and get them one of those great top dollar for sitting at home running the yogurt shop contracts. ALPA talks a big talk but never delivers.

Good luck vote no if you don't want to be in the unemployment line soon.

Why is it that every 'contribution' you make to this board reads like the text equivalent of diarrhea?

 

[rjacobs]

ALPA national is not the problem IMO. ALPA national has virtually no say in how an individual MEC does business. People give national WAY to much ********************, when in reality, its the local MEC that gave away the farm, or had a ******************** load of senior guys vote on something only to ******************** their younger co-workers. If you get a crappy contract, its not nationals fault(they wont generally give their opinion either way about a TA prior to voting) its the locals fault. ALPA just gives the tools to help negotiate a contract. The union is the pilots(same ones that you are working with now), ALPA is only the name on the door. If you dont have voter turn out, dont blame ALPA, blame your pilots.

There is no reason why your relationship with the company has to all the sudden become adversarial just because you vote ALPA in. If your relationship becomes adversarial if you vote ALPA in, I would look at what the company has done to change things, not what ALPA did. At XJT for years we have had a good relationship with the company and things were excellent. It has only been in the past 2-3 years that things have gone downhill and its not ALPA's fault(as much as people want to blame them), its the companies fault for doing everything they have done.

All of this could be the same with an in-house union, teamsters, etc... Management fears unions for a reason, even if unwarranted.

 

[Blue Dude]

It did, but I think this time around it would have much more support. My prediction is that ALPA fails on this drive, but within a year later we vote an in-house union. The in-house structure is already there, we just need to vote for it.

This is incorrect. It might have more support but no more financial backing. The JBPA was only suitable for a relatively friendly relationship. It was hoped the first time around that the company would be, if not supportive, at least not hostile to an in-house union. We know know that they are and the Southwest Airlines collaborative model isn't going to work here with this management. They would bleed us dry. If you want representation, you'd better hope this drive doesn't fail. There is no in-house plan B.

 

[pilot772]

It did, but I think this time around it would have much more support. My prediction is that ALPA fails on this drive, but within a year later we vote an in-house union. The in-house structure is already there, we just need to vote for it.

If this drive fails we better all polish up our resume's. Before another drive could be orginazied we will likely be bought or merged with another airline. At that point we will have no rights or protections to jobs at the new carrier. As far as our supposed no furlough policy according to our PEA and recent correspondence from the company we would be paid as long as we are still "qualified" on the airplane. So after 90 days when you dequal you are on the street. This union vote is very important for the future of all Jetblue pilots, not just for QOL issues but to have a seat at the table should a merger/buyout occur.

 

[DonVerita]

I think an in-house union might be better, but that failed last go around didn't it?

RF

Red...you have to remember to compare apples to apples.

An in-house union has worked just fine at SWA because your management is employee-friendly. When you have a hostile and extreme anti-employee, anti-union management (like AirTran), then you'd better have vast resources, teams of lawyers, and deep pockets at your disposal. I speak from experience. We jettisoned our in-house union and went with ALPA. We've never looked back.

No in-house union could EVER match, or even come close, to the resources that ALPA brings to the table. That, in and of itself, is a very compelling reason for the JetBlue pilots to vote for ALPA. They also have to remember that you are only as good as your MEC; so be darn sure to elect LEC officers who have a strong backbone, don't hide in the shadows, are not in it just to get out of flying the line, and above all - remain accessible and communicate always.

 

[dicko]

The JetBlue company website makes this statement:

Be informed. Vote NO to ALPA.

Isn't this interfering with the election of a Union ?

 

[redflyer65]

Red...you have to remember to compare apples to apples.

An in-house union has worked just fine at SWA because your management is employee-friendly. When you have a hostile and extreme anti-employee, anti-union management (like AirTran), then you'd better have vast resources, teams of lawyers, and deep pockets at your disposal. I speak from experience. We jettisoned our in-house union and went with ALPA. We've never looked back.

No in-house union could EVER match, or even come close, to the resources that ALPA brings to the table. That, in and of itself, is a very compelling reason for the JetBlue pilots to vote for ALPA. They also have to remember that you are only as good as your MEC; so be darn sure to elect LEC officers who have a strong backbone, don't hide in the shadows, are not in it just to get out of flying the line, and above all - remain accessible and communicate always.

Good points Don. I'm not trying to start a fight and I agree that for the B9 guys, ALPA is better than what they have now..no question. They need something that's for sure!

It was sad that the AAI in-house didn't work out better than it did, but I get what you are saying. You are only as strong as those you vote in.

RF

 

[Lear70]

I predict it will pass 55/45.

The last time the in-house union drive was conducted, under RLA rules, the people who didn't vote were counted as a "NO" vote.

Under current rules, those who don't vote are simply not counted one way or another and a simple majority vote OF THE VOTES CAST will decide it.

I'm hoping that, after the vote is done, JBLU management will decide it's better to go down the road of SWAPA/SWA relations rather than legacy carrier relations. If they don't... yeah, the pilots are still better off since JBLU seems to be looking for a dance partner (merger) and representation is absolutely CRUCIAL for that, but it won't be an easy road negotiating a new CBA.

Rock and a hard place... good luck, guys and gals!

 

[PCL_128]

The JetBlue company website makes this statement:

Be informed. Vote NO to ALPA.

Isn't this interfering with the election of a Union ?

Unfortunately, no. Interference in an election is against the law, but the NMB doesn't consider it interference for a company to ask it's employees to vote against representation. They can't threaten, intimidate, etc., but advocating against a union by itself is not considered interference.

 

[dicko]

Unfortunately, no. Interference in an election is against the law, but the NMB doesn't consider it interference for a company to ask it's employees to vote against representation. They can't threaten, intimidate, etc., but advocating against a union by itself is not considered interference.

Thanks.

I thought that it could be considered an instruction given to an employee on a company owned website. The employee could then fear some form of discipline for not following an instruction from their employer.

Welcome back to being a 'Line Swine' PCL

 

[8vATE]

Pro Con Rhetoric and Emotion

Avoiding the extremes on both sides of the Union argument and trying to find the "truth" is where I've tried to stay the past few years.

The burden of proof has always been on management to prove the "direct" relationship is better. Those that push ALPA for "job" security and merger/scope protection; I don't think your record is too positive on that.

Emotion seems to inevitably creep in to the arguments unfortunately.

Dave Barger's "emotional" pleas haven't helped his arguments, as have the management turnover and failure to execute on many levels.

Seems like most over here don't really want ALPA, but we've been pushed there.

Just how do you have a "direct" relationship with 2300 pilots? They haven't figured it out so what are you left with? ALPA and all of its expenses, bureaucracies and failures. But its better than a marginal at best "direct" relationship with lot's of questions and doubts.

 

[Vastly Underemp]

Good points Don. I'm not trying to start a fight and I agree that for the B9 guys,
RF

I, too, sometimes get confused whether I'm the 6 or the 9