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Nice B6 history lesson

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B6Busdriver

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June 24, 2011 JAOC Podcast: 1-855-JB4-ALPA or: http://jaoc.podbean.com/#

Transcript:

Lost and found. 7 min

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening in on this week's JAOC podcast for June 24th 2011.

Please stop by JFK this Saturday or Sunday to ask questions of ALPA representatives and your JAOC. We will also be visiting Boston on June 29th and returning to JFK on June 30th and July 1st.

Over the past few weeks we’ve received communications from PVC co-chairs and management implying that the ELT was on the verge of fixing the five documents when cards were filed for an NMB election. We can’t read minds and we won’t speculate as to what would have happened. But we can rely on history, past actions and facts to reach a logical conclusion.

Recently we visited the JetBlue Lost and Found Department. Lo and behold, we found many earlier misplaced promises. So let’s take a short trip down memory lane to refresh our recollections.

In September 2004, a PEA amendment came with a promise to review compensation after operating the E190 for one year. The review was to be known as the pilot compensation group (PCG). Over two years later, on December 19th, 2006, after months of delay, JetBlue delivered the results of the PCG. It contained a small pay raise for the E190. Most pilots were left out. Retirement issues, medical costs and work rule concerns were ignored. We were sorely disappointed and voiced our concerns loudly. Management scrambled to control the damage and promised to review pilot compensation by March, 31st 2007. This review would be known as PCG-2.

In road shows leading up to PCG-2, management made many promises to address pilot expectations. In fact, at one of the Long Beach PCG road shows, system chief pilot Craig Hoskins made the bold statement that PCG-2 will include significant improvements to PCG-1 and will NOT “rob Peter to pay Paul.”

The PCG2 study increased matching retirement contributions, wordsmith-ed PEA language and promised an annual compensation review. Management claimed that we were now at par with our peers. “Industry standard” became the new catch phrase for flight ops leadership. During this period however, work rules were unilaterally changed, pilots suffered financial hardship under our disability programs, and medical benefits declined at the same time as our share of costs soared. Promises of industry standard benefits were short-lived.

Management next formed the Pilot Compensation Review Board – also known as the PCRB - to benchmark JetBlue pilot pay, benefits and work rules in relation to terms for other pilots. For three months a group of dedicated Jetblue pilots compiled data that compared us to our peers. But management decided who that peer group was.

During road shows promoting the PCRB process, Vice President of Flight Operations John Ross, promised that any deficiencies noted by the PCRB report would be fixed retroactively to January 1st of that year.

But when the PCRB report was released, the Company’s actions fell way short of fixing disparities with our peers and we weren’t raised to their levels. Instead, there were minor improvements. Even more troubling, management denied that it had promised to make changes retroactive to January 1st. It wasn’t until a PCRB road show in JFK that a pilot played an audio recording of their earlier promise. Management then defended the change of heart by claiming that oil price increases caused them to revisit their earlier promise and commitment.

Our next stop down memory lane takes us to the JetBlue Pilots Association (JBPA) National Mediation Board card filing.

In 2007, a small group of pilots approached JetBlue management notifying them of their desire to form an in-house union called the JBPA. Their intention was to fashion an organization that mirrored the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association. As always, these pilot representatives voiced their strong support for the Company, its values and continued financial success.

In November 2008, the JBPA notified Dave Barger and the JetBlue Board of Directors of their intent to file interest cards with the NMB. Dave Barger emailed all JetBlue employees and workgroups to tell them that he felt “kicked in the teeth” by the actions of the pilots and that we were a threat to JetBlue’s culture and survival.

Management made numerous commitments and promises over the following weeks. Most frequently stated were: “we hear you loud and clear;” “we get it now;” and, “just give us one more chance.” Even more illuminating were their statements that “they were just about to provide improvements and ‘fixes’ to pilot issues” when the JBPA filed but due to laboratory conditions during an election, those fixes and improvements must be put on hold.”

During the JBPA campaign management made bold statements during aggressively scheduled face-to-face road shows that they “had work arounds” for the issues raised. JetBlue later admitted that the “work arounds” were not fully vetted or developed. After beating back the election challenge, senior managers retreated to their offices and the “improvements” and “fixes” never materialized.

Sweeping changes to the FSM and its implementation process reminded us again that our issues and priorities – along with Company commitments -- are rarely remembered. We haven’t forgotten Mike Barger’s letter promising no FSM changes without PVC approval. But a short time later, in the early days of the work rules committee, the FSM approval protocol was changed, Flight Operations “steering committees” were created and weighted unequally with managers who could now “shape” pilot recommendations, and a modified FSM was implemented in 2010 – without pilot approval! Of course, sections that reduced costs were implemented quickly. Sections that benefit pilots are largely still pending. Once again, pay raises were offset by pilot cost and benefit reductions. Peter was robbed again.

Finally, a year after management determined that a 2009 pay adjustment was “de minimus,” it offered a 1.09% pay adjustment based on its industry peer comparison. Of course, other pilots received their comparative rates for all of 2010 and we didn’t. We have yet to receive this year’s pay adjustment. When Sandy Sandoval was questioned at a Long Beach road show, he claimed the delay was “a good thing” for the pilots. He also stated that the pay rate adjustment was delayed so our PEAs could include new long term disability language that would address issues in that area. But when the PEA amendment was released, no changes to long term disability were included.

As pilots, we’re acutely aware of issues that affect our careers and our families. We make decisions based on facts and our experience. Reviewing facts and thinking analytically leads to one clear conclusion. That is, management is quick to promise that it “hears us” and promise “that there will be changes.” Our past experience shows those promises end up in the Lost and Found.

Regrettably, our visit to the Lost and Found Department reminds us that’s where most of management’s promises end up. Based on our history we can only conclude that meaningful improvements to the five documents were not imminent. Even if they were, our careful analysis showed how flawed those documents and the PVC approach are.

We’ve concluded that it’s time to stop relying on promises and start taking care of business by negotiating a contract for ourselves. We can’t afford to continue to gamble on our careers, security and our family’s benefits.

Thank you for calling in and please continue to fly safe and adhere to proper sterile cockpit discipline.

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Vote Yes for ALPA!
 
Its the ATA anti-Union playbook to the T. It really sucks working for a non-Union carrier.
 
This article needs to be a printed handout to every B6 pilot on property. If you can read that, and still decide that the company is acting in the best interest of your professional career.... well... I think you'd need a psych eval!
 
CBA's take too long. The direct relationship is much faster... 09/04-06/11

hmmm, nearly six years?

couldn't be true. must be growing pains. the technology isn't there yet. we were just about to turn that part on... LOOK! an eagle!!
 
I heard it was an IT problem, there supposedly is a fix.

What is funny, is that ELT isn't promising anything this time around, all the offer is fear and "evil" ALPA rhetoric.
 
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Yes to the last two posts. Once the JBPA drive was made public, the company launched a very hearty "give us a chance" campaign. It seems like they're making a token effort this time. Maybe the writing on the wall is in large thick letters so they figure, "why bother".

I also think many former BoBs are now supporters of the drive. Other than Fox and Craine, I don't see a whole lot of resistance.

Of course there are also a lot of former fence-sitters like myself who wanted to see what the company was going to do after the last drive and got their answer.
 
Well, Fins, hate to say we told you so, but B6 pilots have been advised how the company would react for a decade. Sorry you had to live it to see where we were coming from.

Now, if only VX pilots would learn something from your example. But, pilots are a prideful hard headed bunch so probably not.
 
Fub, please don't help us. "I told you so" really man. Fins is on board and helping. You kick sand in his face?

Grow up and show some class.
 
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I have no regrets for my decision not to vote last time or my decision to vote this time. Nobody, the Company in this case, can say I didn't give them a fair chance.

I'm not thrilled to be voting for ALPA and thus supporting what is, among other things, a fat bloated beaurocracy, but that us the choice that is left.

I don't sweat Fubi/Velocipede. He'd support a union even if they claimed his first-born. As long as it has a union stamp, it's a-okay with him.
 
I'm not kicking sand in anyone's face. I support you guys wholeheartedly. I'm just saying you are the poster boys for "Daddy Dave will take care of me" disappointment.

And now, they're sending letters directly to your spouses to put pressure on you to vote no? That's low, man.

And you guys believed in them for over a decade?

Wow.
 
I'm not kicking sand in anyone's face. I support you guys wholeheartedly. I'm just saying you are the poster boys for "Daddy Dave will take care of me" disappointment.

And now, they're sending letters directly to your spouses to put pressure on you to vote no? That's low, man.

And you guys believed in them for over a decade?

Wow.

Wow, with that kind of support who needs friends!??! My god man, every bit of "support" you claim is followed by a jab.

You can best help by not helping.

Thanks
 
I'm not kicking sand in anyone's face. I support you guys wholeheartedly. I'm just saying you are the poster boys for "Daddy Dave will take care of me" disappointment.

And now, they're sending letters directly to your spouses to put pressure on you to vote no? That's low, man.

And you guys believed in them for over a decade?

Wow.

Hate to bring it over here, but seeing Fubi claim he supports "you guys wholeheartedly" is a bit of a joke. His whole disdain for VX is based on the fact that bankruptcy courts imposed JetBlue rates on ALPA carriers, so all start-ups are bottom feeders filled with quick upgrade hungry industry backstabbers.

Best of luck to you guys in your decision.
 
I'm not kicking sand in anyone's face. I support you guys wholeheartedly. I'm just saying you are the poster boys for "Daddy Dave will take care of me" disappointment.

And now, they're sending letters directly to your spouses to put pressure on you to vote no? That's low, man.

And you guys believed in them for over a decade?

Wow.

Be careful with "you guys".

Some of us (49, to be exact) voted for ALPA on the last go around, and will vote for them again.

I'm glad to see Fins has made an educated decision, especially since he was in my new hire class and all.
 
So riddle me this...does it bother B6 pilots that there is a non-Union outfit (VX) undercutting YOUR wages by $45 an hour?
 
So riddle me this...does it bother B6 pilots that there is a non-Union outfit (VX) undercutting YOUR wages by $45 an hour?

Honestly, so far they're not in our peer set. And since we just have no idea what negotiations are going to look like, they may never be. I'll start to be truly upset if they are. That said, it's kinda sad that they have yet to learn the same lessons we did, and they'll probably have to learn them the hard way just like we did.
 
Honestly, so far they're not in our peer set. And since we just have no idea what negotiations are going to look like, they may never be. I'll start to be truly upset if they are. That said, it's kinda sad that they have yet to learn the same lessons we did, and they'll probably have to learn them the hard way just like we did.

Well, maybe they're just a start-up carrier like we were 12 years ago... If I recall, Captains started here at $78/hr... We currently make double that now-- I'd say that's some progress although I'm sure you'd say that we're still underpaid, overworked blue-juicers anyway.
 
Well, maybe they're just a start-up carrier like we were 12 years ago... If I recall, Captains started here at $78/hr... We currently make double that now-- I'd say that's some progress although I'm sure you'd say that we're still underpaid, overworked blue-juicers anyway.

It's not all about the pay rates. Mine is about where is should be. My benefits and job protections are not. Too many obvious holes in current and proposed PEAs and other governing documents.
 
I'd say that's some progress although I'm sure you'd say that we're still underpaid, overworked blue-juicers anyway.

Don't be too quick to put words in my mouth. I think we're fairly paid - at the moment - and if you're overworked, quit picking up so much open time. :)

I don't have all that much problem with present circumstances, not enough to need the hassle of a union anyway. I just think we're going into wildfire season without homeowner's insurance, and regardless of your opinion of ALPA, even crappy "insurance" is far better than none. That alone is worth at least 1.95% to me.
 
Well, maybe they're just a start-up carrier like we were 12 years ago... If I recall, Captains started here at $78/hr... We currently make double that now-- I'd say that's some progress...

Where are you getting double from? Another apples to oranges comparison? Inflation has driven wages up in *non-constant* dollars and the industry average has come down quite a bit. So if we're average now it's largely not company generosity that's at work here.

$78 in 1999 is about $100 now. Current year 1 Airbus pay is about $140. Which is 40%, not 100%.

BTW, year 1 pay was $110 in 2001. This wasn't corrected until 2009, after the JBPA drive. Coincidence? Corrected for inflation, that $110 was $134 in 2009, when it was raised to $140. Oh happy day, a 4% raise, not retroactive at all over the previous 8 years. Progress? Double pay? Are you serious?
 
Honestly, so far they're not in our peer set. And since we just have no idea what negotiations are going to look like, they may never be. I'll start to be truly upset if they are. That said, it's kinda sad that they have yet to learn the same lessons we did, and they'll probably have to learn them the hard way just like we did.

Well, they just don't overlap routes. But, I guarantee you, when you go to negotiate that first CBA, B6 management is going to try to make the argument that they're a domestic A320 operator and, as such, they should be included in the "market rate" equation.

You know better than I how much this Union drive has revealed your managers to be clones of all the other scumbag airline managers in the industry today.

Does giving away mainline AS routes to Horizon bother you?

Of course it does. Wanna know what upsets me MORE? Subcontracting those same routes to Skywest using Air Group jets. Your lesson? Make DAMN SURE your NC writes strong scope language into your first contract.

We still have the weakest scope language in the industry because, until now, it wasn't an important issue to the rank and file. Nothing like concrete evidence that AAG has no qualms about subcontracting our flying.
 
I'm curious as to what ALPA brings to the table that a JBPA couldn't? If the argument is about pay then ALPA loses hands down. Insurance can be worked out, look at SWAPA. ALPA represents too many pilot groups and is even in bred under the same company. Trans States is a perfect example. If the Trans States pilots strike then Compass pilots should too, but that would never happen. When Spirit went on strike, the argument could be made for all ALPA pilots to strike. That's uniformity and the power of the union as a whole. But, no. We all pay our dues and hope for a pay raise and that we don't lose more scope to brand new 100 seat fuel efficient RJ's. HA! Not to mention having ALPA represent two pilot groups that are wholly owned by the same company. Who's best interest is best? I'm pro union, but not pro ALPA. In today's world, the role of the union has played itself out. Federal regulation and work rules make it in managements best interests to have a positive relationship with labor. The union can further labor's happiness by providing a safety net for medical issues, loss of wages due to injury and other human workplace issues that require some form of representation. A happy labor group equals efficient safe employees, and will result in a better product or service and happier customers. Talk to some ATA, Aloha,TWA or Midwest pilots about that. ALPA did a great job highlighting their absolute worst decade of performance in this month's ALPA Magazine. Now I have some kindling to start my first Winter chill fire this Fall.
 
I'm curious as to what ALPA brings to the table that a JBPA couldn't?

Money to start up and operate the union. So much funding wouldn't have been necessary with the cordial and respectful relationship JBPA wished to have, but management made it clear that they considered JBPA an extreme negative influence and the equivalent of a declaration of war on JetBlue.

It's too bad really. We could have been putting the finishing touches on our first contract by now, with all of us facing the same direction with most of the glaring weaknesses of our non-union structure addressed. Instead, we got a one time pay bump to industry average. Some exec heads rolled because even average was considered too rich, a result of which was that the raise was at least partly recovered by unilateral work rules changes. We also got to "collaborate", not negotiate, on a soup sandwich called the five documents that didn't even cover most of the basics. Pay rates aside, we're no better and arguably worse than we were in early 2009. What an enormous distraction and waste of time. Can we just get back to kicking major butt again without worrying about whether the whole thing is going to get yanked out from under us if some venture capital firm next week thinks we're a good play as merger fodder?

Federal regulation and work rules make it in managements best interests to have a positive relationship with labor.

True in an ideal world, but what happens when pilot and management interests diverge? It does happen, obviously. The failures that have become apparent are failures to accommodate conflicting goals, if not to everyone's satisfaction, then at least toward some closure. But there's been nothing done in a number of areas. There's no movement because there's no incentive for the company to move. It's only now that a vote is again imminent that we're seeing a scramble to produce anything resembling a working solution, and even that's half-baked and full of obvious holes. Where have all these execs we've been hearing from lately been the past two and a half years? I thought they heard us, and we were to give them one more chance. No, it's too little, too late. We won't be fooled again.
 
Tommy my friend. I have never been a fan of unions or particularly of ALPA. I think in part it's another big bloated beaurocracy(sp?) That wants my money. Buuuuuuut, there is currently no other option for us. The JBPA ship sailed long ago. If management had shown the smallest inkling of support for an in-house union, it probably wold have been voted in. As far as insurance or any other benefits pilots at most carriers anjoy that we don't, there is no legal "workaround".

I swore I'd never vote for ALPA but I'm going to eat my words and do just that. It will be a sad dau for me because I hoped the company would do more to prevent the need for a union, but what they did in most cases went the other direction. There is nothing they could or will do to convince me they are looking out for my career The only thing "transparent" I see these days is the spin they put on the major issues. Sad but true.
 
Hey, Fins, I feel your pain. You put your trust in management and management screwed you. Welcome to the airline business.

Without a CBA, you have NO protection when big Dave decides to put the pork to you.
 
Hey, Fins, I feel your pain. You put your trust in management and management screwed you. Welcome to the airline business.

Without a CBA, you have NO protection when big Dave decides to put the pork to you.

I have no problem with Dave or the rest of them on a personal level. They have made "business decisions" in order to do what they think is best - such as doing away with stock options for new-hires, cutting the company stock purchase plan discount, raising the premium pay trigger by eight hours, doing away with "13:30's", etc. Now I have to make my own business decision to do what I think is best for my personal "company".

"13:30's" were trips that were two legs ending in red-eye that paid a few more hours credit than what was flown.
 
I have no problem with Dave or the rest of them on a personal level. They have made "business decisions" in order to do what they think is best - such as doing away with stock options for new-hires, cutting the company stock purchase plan discount, raising the premium pay trigger by eight hours, doing away with "13:30's", etc. Now I have to make my own business decision to do what I think is best for my personal "company".

"13:30's" were trips that were two legs ending in red-eye that paid a few more hours credit than what was flown.

Fins, you can thank "dr" bill craine for that fine piece of management wannabe work. Make sure you say 'Thanks Bill, for taking money out of my pocket, 'preciate that!!, next time you have the privilege of seeing him in the crew lounge or online!!
 
Oh yes. I am familiar some of the good doctor's great ideas on how to save the company from greedy pilots. I take comfort knowing that he will have no place on any committee after the union is voted in. I suppose he still could push numbers for management against the pilots as he does now and be known as a true and complete traitor though.
 

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