Yet another USAPA lawsuit

[BoilerUP]

The US Airline Pilots Assn., the union representing more than 5,000 US Airways pilots, said Tuesday it has filed a complaint in a federal court in New York alleging that US management has "unilaterally" imposed new work rules in the absence of a new labor contract, agreement on which USAPA claimed is being held up by "bad faith" negotiations aimed at delaying a deal.

 

[Bringupthebird]

USAirways is a non-union airline as it pertains to pilots.

 

[eaglesview]

Is the accusation true or not. Is the company imposing things against the contract?? Is so you would be happier if they did nothing??

 

[TWA Dude]

Is the accusation true or not.

The distinction between 'playing hardball' and 'bad faith' is more a matter of perspective than legally definable. The federal mediator hasn't said anything about bad faith so I don't think Dear Leader Cleary has a good legal case. (And in case you didn't know the BPR wasn't consulted about the suit. They actually gave Cleary the authority to do this kind of thing.)

Doug reiterated at the last PHX Crew News that there will be no contract until the seniority issue is "settled" so the lawsuit is just posturing (and a further waste of dues money).

Is the company imposing things against the contract??

Of course they are, however, the courts know the grievance process is the proper venue for solving those disputes.

Is so you would be happier if they did nothing??

You made me laugh until I realized you weren't being intentionally funny. All USAPA has to do is drop their assault on the arbitrated seniority list and the West and East could work together to create the leverage needed to get a contract done. As long as USAPA is fighting both the Company and the West what their negotiating committee does is irrelevant and Cleary's lawsuit is certainly irrelevant.

 

[eaglesview]

The distinction between 'playing hardball' and 'bad faith' is more a matter of perspective than legally definable. The federal mediator hasn't said anything about bad faith so I don't think Dear Leader Cleary has a good legal case. (And in case you didn't know the BPR wasn't consulted about the suit. They actually gave Cleary the authority to do this kind of thing.)

Doug reiterated at the last PHX Crew News that there will be no contract until the seniority issue is "settled" so the lawsuit is just posturing (and a further waste of dues money).Of course they are, however, the courts know the grievance process is the proper venue for solving those disputes.You made me laugh until I realized you weren't being intentionally funny. All USAPA has to do is drop their assault on the arbitrated seniority list and the West and East could work together to create the leverage needed to get a contract done. As long as USAPA is fighting both the Company and the West what their negotiating committee does is irrelevant and Cleary's lawsuit is certainly irrelevant.

Funny you should bring up the crew news. What did Parker say??? Something about the nic and ALPA?? and that ALPA is not the union on the property?? Something abo t the company has already brought these things in front of their lawyers.

Tell me again why a junior f/o on the east side would want to merge and get a new contract??? To play F/O the rest of his career?? NO contract will make up the money he would lose in that scenario. I am not saying the East (not USAPA legal diffrence there) didn't agree to binding arbitration while ALPA represented them. Guess what it's a big bad world out there. Agreements are broken all the time in the business world. (thus the need for a grievance process)

Anyway back on subgect. Yes the grievance process is the "proper" venue. If we, as in all the airline pilots, just used that process we would get no where. Once in a while you have to misbehave and act up to apply more pressure.

 

[TWA Dude]

Funny you should bring up the crew news. What did Parker say??? Something about the nic and ALPA?? and that ALPA is not the union on the property?? Something abo t the company has already brought these things in front of their lawyers.

Did you have a point to make? I missed it if you did.

Tell me again why a junior f/o on the east side would want to merge and get a new contract??? To play F/O the rest of his career?? NO contract will make up the money he would lose in that scenario.

Irrelevant. Until an actual contract is TA'ed it's moot.

I am not saying the East (not USAPA legal diffrence there) didn't agree to binding arbitration while ALPA represented them. Guess what it's a big bad world out there.

Your point being? (yes, you need to spell it out for me. I love when people without integrity try to justify doing the wrong thing.)

Anyway back on subgect. Yes the grievance process is the "proper" venue. If we, as in all the airline pilots, just used that process we would get no where. Once in a while you have to misbehave and act up to apply more pressure.

Seriously, you need to pay closer attention. As long as USAPA is trying to get around the arbitrated seniority list the West will fight them and no "safety" campaigns nor meritless lawsuits will have any effect. A union divided is useless. The side that started the fight needs to end it.

 

[waveflyer]

Wrong eagle. The east will never make up the money they've lost due to this hardline tantrum.
I swear you guys think 4 stripes carries some form of automatic financial independence- but if you look - you see that a FO makes $40/hr less than a captain- ....wow....
All this for $40k a year - which would've mostly been made up years ago.

Oh- and EVERY RJ CAPTAIN IN THE INDUSTRY W/ SAME YEARS OF SERVICE MAKES MORE THAN A USAIR 190 CAPT. MANY ARE A WITHIN $10 of A320 capt pay. EVERY FO AT DELTA AND AMERICAN AND CONTINTENTAL MAKE WITHIN $5/hr OF YOUR A320 capts. UAL IS CLOSE. AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON HOW MUCH MORE A SWA FO makes THAN ALL OF YOUR CAPTS. And Fedex. And UPS.
An e190 FO at jblu makes more than your 190 capts. YOU ARE BY FAR THE LOWEST PAID 320 operators in the country. Even VA has you beat and they are newborns.

Aka- USAPA IS UNDERCUTTING THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY AND SHOULD NOT EVER THINK THAT THERE IS A FINANCIAL JUSTIFICATION FOR THIS TANTRUM.

Its pure ego now. Nothing more.

This entire thing is staggeringly stupid.

 

[say again]

Wrong eagle. The east will never make up the money they've lost due to this hardline tantrum.
I swear you guys think 4 stripes carries some form of automatic financial independence- but if you look - you see that a FO makes $40/hr less than a captain- ....wow....
All this for $40k a year - which would've mostly been made up years ago.

Oh- and EVERY RJ CAPTAIN IN THE INDUSTRY W/ SAME YEARS OF SERVICE MAKES MORE THAN A USAIR 190 CAPT. MANY ARE A WITHIN $10 of A320 capt pay. EVERY FO AT DELTA AND AMERICAN AND CONTINTENTAL MAKE WITHIN $5/hr OF YOUR A320 capts. UAL IS CLOSE. AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON HOW MUCH MORE A SWA FO makes THAN ALL OF YOUR CAPTS. And Fedex. And UPS.
An e190 FO at jblu makes more than your 190 capts. YOU ARE BY FAR THE LOWEST PAID 320 operators in the country. Even VA has you beat and they are newborns.

Aka- USAPA IS UNDERCUTTING THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY AND SHOULD NOT EVER THINK THAT THERE IS A FINANCIAL JUSTIFICATION FOR THIS TANTRUM.

Its pure ego now. Nothing more.

This entire thing is staggeringly stupid.

:beer:

 

[Ty Webb]

Wrong eagle. The east will never make up the money they've lost due to this hardline tantrum.
I swear you guys think 4 stripes carries some form of automatic financial independence- but if you look - you see that a FO makes $40/hr less than a captain- ....wow....
All this for $40k a year - which would've mostly been made up years ago.

Oh- and EVERY RJ CAPTAIN IN THE INDUSTRY W/ SAME YEARS OF SERVICE MAKES MORE THAN A USAIR 190 CAPT. MANY ARE A WITHIN $10 of A320 capt pay. EVERY FO AT DELTA AND AMERICAN AND CONTINTENTAL MAKE WITHIN $5/hr OF YOUR A320 capts. UAL IS CLOSE. AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON HOW MUCH MORE A SWA FO makes THAN ALL OF YOUR CAPTS. And Fedex. And UPS.
An e190 FO at jblu makes more than your 190 capts. YOU ARE BY FAR THE LOWEST PAID 320 operators in the country. Even VA has you beat and they are newborns.

Aka- USAPA IS UNDERCUTTING THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY AND SHOULD NOT EVER THINK THAT THERE IS A FINANCIAL JUSTIFICATION FOR THIS TANTRUM.

Its pure ego now. Nothing more.

This entire thing is staggeringly stupid.

Agreed. The sore-losers on the East have dug their latrines too close to their kitchen.

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

Yet another USAPA lawsuit or another (SLI SWAPA V ALPA) bashing

I think its time to bring in the SLI SWAPA V ALPA thread in this one and see if this can be spinned around to bash SWA on this thread as well - why not its woks for most of the others.

 

[vetrider]

Is the accusation true or not. Is the company imposing things against the contract?? Is so you would be happier if they did nothing??

The Furher can't do anything but rant and rave with that limp dick.

 

[Turtle21]

Did you have a point to make? I missed it if you did.

.......

 

[vetrider]

The Furher is impotent.

 

[vetrider]

It was an east guy who was taking upskirt photos of an underage girl at the airport Turtle.

 

[cactusboy53]

Is the accusation true or not. Is the company imposing things against the contract?? Is so you would be happier if they did nothing??

Let's think about this for a moment:

• The east pilots walked away from joint negotiations.
• The east pilots walked away from the seniority list because it didn't meet the pie in the sky promises of the AAA MEC.
• The east pilots insisted on opening up EVERY SECTION of the contract (even though a lion's share of the sections were completed).
• The east pilots refuse to put out the Kirby proposal (that if voted in would IMMEDIATELY bring them up to in pay and parity).

Now, I admit that the Kirby proposal won't do it for me. The company did say (in testimony) that they thought they would have to pay an additional 7-8% on top of the Kirby proposal. So that would have made a narrow body captain pay just shy of $159 an hour + the existing AWA contract. I could just about live with that wage.

This "union" is writing checks, it's body (of pilots) can't cash (apologies to Top Gun).

 

[vetrider]

I can't spell. The Führer is impotent, not the Furher, my apologies.

 

[TWA Dude]

Speaking of lawsuits, great news today from Judge Silver in the Company's suit for declaratory judgment: the case will go on! Silver dismissed USAPA's motion to dismiss the West. She also dismissed the cross-claims and both motions for sanctions.

What does this mean? It means at some point the judge will rule on the Company's request to either be told they must use USAPA's wet-dream list, the Nicolau Award, or anything else without fear of a suit. The Addington jury trial will figure prominently in future proceedings. May justice be served!

 

[Raoul Duke]

The east guys should stage a sickout to show PHX who runs the show.

 

[TWA Dude]

From Judge Silver's order:

"The East Pilots–who would benefit much more from a strict “date of hire” seniority rule–were dissatisfied with the Nicolau Award. The East Pilots formed a new labor union known as USAPA. The USAPA constitution mandates seniority be determined by “date of hire.” The East Pilots significantly outnumber the West Pilots and when put to a vote by all the pilots, USAPA was certified as the labor union for both the East and West Pilots."

Any Eastie feeling confident about outcome of this suit?

 

[becket]

Lee $e$ham fails again! Keep paying out those dues idiots!!