Netjets Gulfstreams & Globals - Coexisting?

[johnsonrod]

It is still unclear whether the incoming Global Express aircraft will be replacing all of the current Gulfstreams or just some of the older Gulfstreams (i.e., GIVSPs). What's the plan? Some questions:

1. How many G450s and G550s are on order and have not been delivered yet?

2. Will those newer, yet-to-be delivered airplanes be replaced by the Globals or will those orders be cancelled?

3. Have any potential timelines for replacements been offered? I have heard the GIVSPs are looking their age...

Thanks for any insight. Personally, I hope you keep some of those G450/550s - those are awesome airplanes.

 

[jtf]

The Gulfstream orders were cancelled when the Global order was made. The G-IVs will be the first out the door (already sold at least one). Probably some of the few old G-Vs will be sold in the not too distant future. I would have to guess that as the Globals come in, the Gulfstreams will leave. I think there will be newer 450 and 550s on property for many years to come, but eventually I think they will all be sold away. At least they shouldn't have much trouble getting rid of the Gulfstreams for a reasonable price when it is time since they are great airplanes. The Globals will start arriving in late 2012.

 

[rajflyboy]

Rumor has it: Don't bid the global unless you have a "15 HOUR ASS"

 

[CA1900]

:laugh:

I barely have a 2-hour ass. The Excel's perfect for me!

 

[johnsonrod]

That's a shame that the G-Whizzes will likely leave completely. I got a tour of a G450 (non-Netjets) recently and I was seriously impressed - that Planeview technology is fantastic and makes my ERJ seem prehistoric. I am sure the Globals will be nice too (if you can stand the ultra-long flights - but I guess the G550 pilots will do just fine given their current worldwide flights).

Are the Netjets Globals scheduled to use the Global Vision Flight Deck or the older/CRJ-like technology found in today's Globals?

Here's info on the Vision Flight Deck from the Bombardier website:


Global Vision flight deck
The Global Vision flight deck introduces the Rockwell Collins' Pro Line Fusion avionics suite that provides an integrated flight deck to ensure interoperability between systems. Debuting on the Bombardier Global family, Pro Line Fusion features four high resolution 15-inch diagonal active matrix liquid crystal displays (LCD) arranged in a T shape working in concert with the Head-Up Display (HUD), personalized formats of display information, electronic checklist, maps with graphical flight planning, integrated Cursor Control Panel (CCP), Synthetic Vision System (SVS), Enhanced Vision System (EVS), dual Integrated Flight Information Systems (IFIS) with electronic charts and enhanced maps, Future Air Navigation System (FANS), Controller-Pilot DataLink Communication (CPDLC) and MultiScan™ Weather Detection system.

With the Global Vision flight deck, advanced technology meets with exceptional aesthetics to create a new flight deck experience. Great attention is dedicated to details. The yoke features twin needle stitching with contrast thread to provide the feel of a luxury vehicle steering wheel. Map Lighting as well as sun visor are more aesthetically pleasing and position where they are most effective. Storage place is increased and designed to integrate smoothly into cockpit environment.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Back when we were flogging the dog in crappy flying jobs and a buddy had the inside line on a new start-up with cool equipment we used to have a line: "Believe it when the Flight Attendant brings you a glass of OJ at 35,000 feet."

Same thing applies here.

 

[rajflyboy]

That's a shame that the G-Whizzes will likely leave completely. I got a tour of a G450 (non-Netjets) recently and I was seriously impressed - that Planeview technology is fantastic and makes my ERJ seem prehistoric. I am sure the Globals will be nice too (if you can stand the ultra-long flights - but I guess the G550 pilots will do just fine given their current worldwide flights).

Are the Netjets Globals scheduled to use the Global Vision Flight Deck or the older/CRJ-like technology found in today's Globals?

Here's info on the Vision Flight Deck from the Bombardier website:


Global Vision flight deck
The Global Vision flight deck introduces the Rockwell Collins' Pro Line Fusion avionics suite that provides an integrated flight deck to ensure interoperability between systems. Debuting on the Bombardier Global family, Pro Line Fusion features four high resolution 15-inch diagonal active matrix liquid crystal displays (LCD) arranged in a T shape working in concert with the Head-Up Display (HUD), personalized formats of display information, electronic checklist, maps with graphical flight planning, integrated Cursor Control Panel (CCP), Synthetic Vision System (SVS), Enhanced Vision System (EVS), dual Integrated Flight Information Systems (IFIS) with electronic charts and enhanced maps, Future Air Navigation System (FANS), Controller-Pilot DataLink Communication (CPDLC) and MultiScan™ Weather Detection system.

With the Global Vision flight deck, advanced technology meets with exceptional aesthetics to create a new flight deck experience. Great attention is dedicated to details. The yoke features twin needle stitching with contrast thread to provide the feel of a luxury vehicle steering wheel. Map Lighting as well as sun visor are more aesthetically pleasing and position where they are most effective. Storage place is increased and designed to integrate smoothly into cockpit environment.

Buying new airplanes has nothing to do with this. Its about the "Art of the Deal". How good of a price can you get, how good a deal on maintenance can you get, how many old planes can you sell back to the OEM and again "How Good of a Price can you Negotiate".

The rest holds a back seat to this.

 

[jtf]

All the Globals NJA has said they will get are supposed to have the Global Vision flight deck. Management is hoping for a common type for all 4 versions of Global, but nobody knows if the 7000 and 8000 will share the same type rating or not since they are still years away from coming off the drawing board into reality. Heck, nobody really knows if any Globals will truly make it onto the property anyway with NetJets history of cancelled orders. I guess it is more likely than not that all the big Gulfstreams go away and are replaced, but you just never know how things will truly shake out with all the loopholes in the contracts and the uncertainty with the economy.

 

[johnsonrod]

All the Globals NJA has said they will get are supposed to have the Global Vision flight deck. Management is hoping for a common type for all 4 versions of Global, but nobody knows if the 7000 and 8000 will share the same type rating or not since they are still years away from coming off the drawing board into reality. Heck, nobody really knows if any Globals will truly make it onto the property anyway with NetJets history of cancelled orders. I guess it is more likely than not that all the big Gulfstreams go away and are replaced, but you just never know how things will truly shake out with all the loopholes in the contracts and the uncertainty with the economy.

Thank God the new Netjets CEO is an attorney!!!!

Some additional questions: how many non-NJI pilots (i.e, legacy Netjets) have seats in the Gulfstreams as either Captains or First Officers? Do you get many legacy Netjets pilots bidding FO seats on the Gulfstreams? What would the seat-lock be on a GIV/GV/G450/G550 FO seat? On the other side of the coin, how many former NJI pilots have bid non-Gulfstream seats?

 

[Jack Campbell]

Another question is what are the G-IV Captains who are junior to NJA First Officers going to do when their airplanes go away and they can only hold First Officer positions?

 

[OPECJet]

Another question is what are the G-IV Captains who are junior to NJA First Officers going to do when their airplanes go away and they can only hold First Officer positions?

Whine and cry I'm guessing. What will be really awesome is when guys start getting recalled into the Globals. Wonder if they'll stick some horse manure 5000 hr requirement to fly it....

 

[jtf]

I won't be surprised if the junior G-IV captains are allowed to displace into Globals, but there will be some serious ill-will if it does happen. Honestly I doubt they will lose the 4 stripes, but they will most likely get to displace to smaller airframes. As far as recalls going to the Globals- that just won't happen. The position is higher pay so they will be filled by open bid or by displacement, but not by recall- pretty much everyone who isn't furloughed would go bananas if this happens since there are around 500 pilots senior who would most likely want the positions.

Seat lock in the Gulfsteam program is either 4 or 5 years- can't remember off the top of my head, though FOs who haven't been captain are allowed to bid out to the first available captain slot in another airplane. There have been a handful of legacy captains who have bid into the right seat in the Gulfstreams for various reasons like wanting to do that kind of flying or setting themselves up for lucrative flying on the side. All FO positions on the IVs have been filled by legacy pilots for the last few years and the last G-V bid went all legacy also. I really don't have any idea how many legacy pilots are in the Gulfstream program now- probably somewhere around 20% of the Gulfstream pilots, but I really don't know. There have been exactly 0 former NJI pilots bidding out of the Gulfsteams. Since they were merged the only open bids have been into the Gulfstreams- all others have been displacement bids only open to those being displaced. That said, it is possible that there are former NJI pilots who have their airframe bids including other airframes, but until their are open bids for those airframes that they can hold with their seniority, nobody will know for sure if any want out. I would have to guess the only possible place some might try for would be the Falcon 2000EZ since it has the same pay and does considerably less flying outside the US and probably averages much, much shorter legs.

 

[barnyard]

Legacy?


Please.uke:

 

[landlover]

netjets has Legacies? learn something new everyday.

 

[DC-4]

Hey Landlover nice avitar if you don't mind me asking were did you find that picture of tanker 16 SP2H Neptune.

 

[jonjuan]

Another question is what are the G-IV Captains who are junior to NJA First Officers going to do when their airplanes go away and they can only hold First Officer positions?

Word is that Delta is hiring in 2012/13.

 

[landlover]

Hey Landlover nice avitar if you don't mind me asking were did you find that picture of tanker 16 SP2H Neptune.

i found it somewhere on the internet. I never did any tanker work but that picture is too rad not to share.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Another question is what are the G-IV Captains who are junior to NJA First Officers going to do when their airplanes go away and they can only hold First Officer positions?

The VSL determines fleet/seat... If one is available.

Musical chairs comes to mind.

No cheating allowed.

 

[CE750Driver]

The VSL determines fleet/seat... If one is available.

Musical chairs comes to mind.

No cheating allowed.

You had better read about "Displacement bids" in our contract. VSL has absolutely nothing to do with it. It is sad that you don't know this.

 

[johnsonrod]

You had better read about "Displacement bids" in our contract. VSL has absolutely nothing to do with it. It is sad that you don't know this.

So, what does this mean (for those who don't work at Netjets)? Would a former NJI Gulfstream FO likely get bumped to a smaller aircraft as the Globals arrive? Are the former NJI pilots protected on that aircraft as long as the Gulfstreams are on the property? How does displacement work at Netjets?