New Rest Rules and Commuting.....

[JumpersAway]

Are the new rest rules slated to go into effect in August, and if so, does anyone know what the stipulation is on commuting? Someone was telling me you had to commute in the day before your scheduled flight. I could understand this if you were four time zones over, but not if you were in the same one.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Are the new rest rules slated to go into effect in August, and if so, does anyone know what the stipulation is on commuting? Someone was telling me you had to commute in the day before your scheduled flight. I could understand this if you were four time zones over, but not if you were in the same one.

Well to play devil's advocate, shouldn't it count towards "duty time" if you do it the day of your trip? What's the difference? We need to be careful what we wish for....

 

[Raoul Duke]

they do not go into effect in Aug

 

[camyz125]

I'll say this: I bet I get way more rest waking up at 500am and sleeping on my 2 hour commute than some guy getting up at 500am, taking the kids to school, running errands, mowing the lawn, whatever in base before his show time...

 

[Jar Jar]

What rest rules?


There won't be any.

 

[southern cross 7]

Ditto.. I also heard they are not happening, RAA has coughed up enough cash to stop them along with ALPA fighting them also, why I'll never understand.

 

[ualdriver]

Are the new rest rules slated to go into effect in August, and if so, does anyone know what the stipulation is on commuting? Someone was telling me you had to commute in the day before your scheduled flight. I could understand this if you were four time zones over, but not if you were in the same one.

I haven't read them since they initially came out but I am almost certain that there were no specific rules concerning commuting.

 

[JumpersAway]

I haven't read them since they initially came out but I am almost certain that there were no specific rules concerning commuting.

I didn't recall any either. Someone kept pushing a discussion regarding them with me, and spewing some stuff that I didn't recall, nor did I think were correct. Thanks for the clarification and useful input/post. Hmmmm- FlightInfo might actually serve a useful purpose on occasion : )

 

[rickair7777]

I haven't read them since they initially came out but I am almost certain that there were no specific rules concerning commuting.

There was a short provision buried in the proposed rules which stated that commuting time is not rest, and directed the airlines to enforce it.

Taken at face value that means effectively your duty time starts with your commute (since you need look-back rest).

I'm hoping that provision goes away, since it would be very confusing to try to comply with. What is commuting? Driving to work? How do you avoid that? This would actually force more people to arrive the night before, sleep in the crew room for 4-5 hours, get woken up by the early crews, then wander the airport like zombies while they run out the clock between their commute and show time. What a crock...

 

[Kaman]

Funny how sleepy controllers got the press and Congress involved...They changed the rules overnight, and we get screwed because the airlines don't have a "printing press" in the backroom printing $100.00 bill. Single-level of safety...for whom does this truly apply to and when?

 

[ualdriver]

There was a short provision buried in the proposed rules which stated that commuting time is not rest, and directed the airlines to enforce it.

Where did it say that? Do you have the link to the proposed rules, I don't have it handy.

 

[pilotyip]

From what I have heard, there is a two year implementation period after it is published

 

[COOPERVANE]

Funny how sleepy controllers got the press and Congress involved...They changed the rules overnight,

Yeah, but they are controllers...they control the aircraft.

Thats what the public thinks

 

[PA44Jockey]

From what I have heard, there is a two year implementation period after it is published

From what you heard? Where did you hear?

 

[PCL_128]

The rules don't go into effect in August. The FAA is just required to issue the final rule in August. That final rule can include a phase-in period, and almost certainly will, which means that it will probably take 18-24 months for the new rules to be finally implemented. The NPRM that came out last year contained no restrictions on commuting, and there is no reason to believe that the final rule will, either.

 

[pilotyip]

From what you heard? Where did you hear?

From our POI,

 

[No Delay]

Not sure exactly how I found it...but somewhere on the FAA website:

Babbitt just last week addressed congress, mainly talking about NexGen stuff and budgets but also made a statement that there hasn't been any progress made with rest rules / pilot fatigue. It will be almost impossible to regulate / police pilots commuting. And they would not have it worked out by the August deadline. (paraphrased).

Also, there was such negative feedback from the public comments, they were working on a supplemental package and would open that up to public comments...but hasn't been done yet.



Also, this week congress passed a bill (house and senate both passed it) on FAA spending / budgets. In that bill R-Bill Shuster added a section that requires the FAA to do an economic study before implementing any rule changes.

Meaning the FAA will have to study how a new rule will impact airlines financially (prob. a 2 year process) before making any changes. This pretty much just killed the rest rule changes!

 

[Flyin2low]

From the people working on the new requirements: It will never happen.........

 

[CX880]

Not sure exactly how I found it...but somewhere on the FAA website:

Babbitt just last week addressed congress, mainly talking about NexGen stuff and budgets but also made a statement that there hasn't been any progress made with rest rules / pilot fatigue. It will be almost impossible to regulate / police pilots commuting. And they would not have it worked out by the August deadline. (paraphrased).

Also, there was such negative feedback from the public comments, they were working on a supplemental package and would open that up to public comments...but hasn't been done yet.



Also, this week congress passed a bill (house and senate both passed it) on FAA spending / budgets. In that bill R-Bill Shuster added a section that requires the FAA to do an economic study before implementing any rule changes.

Meaning the FAA will have to study how a new rule will impact airlines financially (prob. a 2 year process) before making any changes. This pretty much just killed the rest rule changes!

Shocking, it's just shokcing

 

[dispatchguy]

Not enough people have died yet due to fatigued crews - BUT, if a full 744 were to go down due to a flight crewmember commuting in from MCO to insert your favorite hub to go long haul overseas, the ink on the rules wouldnt be dry enough before they went into effect.

Remember, all aviation safety is based on regulation by body count...

 

[General Lee]

U.S. Airline Pilot-Rest Plan May Advance With Lawmaker Move

By John Hughes - May 20, 2011 9:28 AM MT Bloomberg

A proposed U.S. regulation that would require additional rest for airline pilots may advance after Representative Bill Shuster withdrew legislation he had added to a Federal Aviation Administration budget plan.

The amendment would have stalled the rest rule, according to safety advocates and pilot unions. Shuster’s action may speed agreement on a FAA budget plan being negotiated by House and Senate lawmakers. The Shuster plan was one of a handful of provisions that needed to be resolved.

“It is apparent that the inclusion of my amendment in the FAA bill may slow down conference negotiations and delay the adoption of this critical legislation to dramatically reform and streamline” FAA programs, Shuster, a Pennsylvania Republican, said in an e-mailed statement.

Shuster’s proposal was added April 1, by a 215-209 vote, to a $59.7 billion FAA budget plan. The FAA legislation is more than three years overdue, forcing the agency to operate on 18 extensions of the most recent aviation-funding law.

The FAA proposed a rule last year that would give airline pilots nine hours of rest between shifts, a 13 percent increase from current schedules. The plan also requires that pilots get at least 30 consecutive work-free hours a week, a 25 percent increase from existing rules.




Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Salukipilot4590]

Hahahahahaha

Look at you people! You actually have faith that those you elected to steal 2% of your union dues and 20% of your income give a rats sphincter about you?

This is seriously sad....but I'm too mad to laugh...

 

[Jetjockey]

I doubt commuting will be included in any rest rule. What is the difference from a pilot who drives 2 hours to work? Would they mandate that a pilot has to live within a certain radius of the airport? Too many thorny areas in that. They just assume a pilot has enough common sense to show up to work rested.

 

[No Delay]

Not sure exactly how it works...but had a UPS guy on the van one night. Said he had to check into the hotel for the rest period before his trip. (unless I totally misunderstood)

Not saying it will happen...but it someone is already doing it....

 

[Jetjockey]

Not sure exactly how it works...but had a UPS guy on the van one night. Said he had to check into the hotel for the rest period before his trip. (unless I totally misunderstood)

Not saying it will happen...but it someone is already doing it....

Sounds like what UPS call Hot reserve, or something like that. They have to be near the airport and ready in short order. Part of their trip.

 

[rickair7777]

I haven't read them since they initially came out but I am almost certain that there were no specific rules concerning commuting.

It's buried pretty deep, but it's in there (unless they have issued a newer proposed rule that I missed).

Find Proposed Rule FAA-2009-1093-0001 in federal register 75-177

Look on page 55875.

Also search that document for the word "commute".

 

[atpcliff]

Congress legislated that the new Flight/Duty/Rest rules be IN EFFECT by 1 Aug of this year. There is a three year waiting period, starting 1 Aug, 2010, for when all -121 pilots would need an ATP.

The only way the rules will not be changed is if Congress changes the law, as the Shuster guy, above, was attempting to do.

Commuting was talked about, but will not be addressed in the new Flight/Duty/Rest rules. Some of the key changes are a 13 hour max duty day, reduced if the pilot starts late/early, or if there are lots of legs, more than 8 hours of flying allowed (in the 13 or less hour duty day...I think 11???), rest is hotel room to hotel lobby, and duty, rest, and ON CALL time is defined. No more 24/7 on call.

cliff
HKG

 

[SiuDude]

Congress legislated that the new Flight/Duty/Rest rules be IN EFFECT by 1 Aug of this year.

Nah:

http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=11857&print=go

 

[pilotyip]

Nah:

http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=11857&print=go

I don't see the allowance for an implementation period? But then the final rule has not been published.

 

[SiuDude]

I don't see the allowance for an implementation period? But then the final rule has not been published.

Neither do I. However, if the final rule is published on 8/1/2011, you can't expect for it to be effective immediately.