New Rest Rules and Commuting.....

[General Lee]

U.S. Airline Pilot-Rest Plan May Advance With Lawmaker Move

By John Hughes - May 20, 2011 9:28 AM MT Bloomberg

A proposed U.S. regulation that would require additional rest for airline pilots may advance after Representative Bill Shuster withdrew legislation he had added to a Federal Aviation Administration budget plan.

The amendment would have stalled the rest rule, according to safety advocates and pilot unions. Shuster’s action may speed agreement on a FAA budget plan being negotiated by House and Senate lawmakers. The Shuster plan was one of a handful of provisions that needed to be resolved.

“It is apparent that the inclusion of my amendment in the FAA bill may slow down conference negotiations and delay the adoption of this critical legislation to dramatically reform and streamline” FAA programs, Shuster, a Pennsylvania Republican, said in an e-mailed statement.

Shuster’s proposal was added April 1, by a 215-209 vote, to a $59.7 billion FAA budget plan. The FAA legislation is more than three years overdue, forcing the agency to operate on 18 extensions of the most recent aviation-funding law.

The FAA proposed a rule last year that would give airline pilots nine hours of rest between shifts, a 13 percent increase from current schedules. The plan also requires that pilots get at least 30 consecutive work-free hours a week, a 25 percent increase from existing rules.




Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Salukipilot4590]

Hahahahahaha

Look at you people! You actually have faith that those you elected to steal 2% of your union dues and 20% of your income give a rats sphincter about you?

This is seriously sad....but I'm too mad to laugh...

 

[Jetjockey]

I doubt commuting will be included in any rest rule. What is the difference from a pilot who drives 2 hours to work? Would they mandate that a pilot has to live within a certain radius of the airport? Too many thorny areas in that. They just assume a pilot has enough common sense to show up to work rested.

 

[No Delay]

Not sure exactly how it works...but had a UPS guy on the van one night. Said he had to check into the hotel for the rest period before his trip. (unless I totally misunderstood)

Not saying it will happen...but it someone is already doing it....

 

[Jetjockey]

Not sure exactly how it works...but had a UPS guy on the van one night. Said he had to check into the hotel for the rest period before his trip. (unless I totally misunderstood)

Not saying it will happen...but it someone is already doing it....

Sounds like what UPS call Hot reserve, or something like that. They have to be near the airport and ready in short order. Part of their trip.

 

[rickair7777]

I haven't read them since they initially came out but I am almost certain that there were no specific rules concerning commuting.

It's buried pretty deep, but it's in there (unless they have issued a newer proposed rule that I missed).

Find Proposed Rule FAA-2009-1093-0001 in federal register 75-177

Look on page 55875.

Also search that document for the word "commute".

 

[atpcliff]

Congress legislated that the new Flight/Duty/Rest rules be IN EFFECT by 1 Aug of this year. There is a three year waiting period, starting 1 Aug, 2010, for when all -121 pilots would need an ATP.

The only way the rules will not be changed is if Congress changes the law, as the Shuster guy, above, was attempting to do.

Commuting was talked about, but will not be addressed in the new Flight/Duty/Rest rules. Some of the key changes are a 13 hour max duty day, reduced if the pilot starts late/early, or if there are lots of legs, more than 8 hours of flying allowed (in the 13 or less hour duty day...I think 11???), rest is hotel room to hotel lobby, and duty, rest, and ON CALL time is defined. No more 24/7 on call.

cliff
HKG

 

[SiuDude]

Congress legislated that the new Flight/Duty/Rest rules be IN EFFECT by 1 Aug of this year.

Nah:

http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=11857&print=go

 

[pilotyip]

Nah:

http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=11857&print=go

I don't see the allowance for an implementation period? But then the final rule has not been published.

 

[SiuDude]

I don't see the allowance for an implementation period? But then the final rule has not been published.

Neither do I. However, if the final rule is published on 8/1/2011, you can't expect for it to be effective immediately.

 

[rickair7777]

Congress legislated that the new Flight/Duty/Rest rules be IN EFFECT by 1 Aug of this year. There is a three year waiting period, starting 1 Aug, 2010, for when all -121 pilots would need an ATP.

The only way the rules will not be changed is if Congress changes the law, as the Shuster guy, above, was attempting to do.

Commuting was talked about, but will not be addressed in the new Flight/Duty/Rest rules. Some of the key changes are a 13 hour max duty day, reduced if the pilot starts late/early, or if there are lots of legs, more than 8 hours of flying allowed (in the 13 or less hour duty day...I think 11???), rest is hotel room to hotel lobby, and duty, rest, and ON CALL time is defined. No more 24/7 on call.

cliff
HKG

Commuting is in there according to this:

http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=11857&print=go

That's the FAA proposal.

Is congress overriding the FAA? They can do that, but while congress can pass a law mandating certain rules, that does not mean the FAA cannot add additional rules through the normal rule-making process.

Do you have a link to the bill in congress? Unless that bill has language specifically excluding commuting from duty/rest calculations the FAA can still add commuting rules at their leisure.

 

[IBNAV8R]

The wording in the proposal alluded to the fact that, since commuting takes place on one's own time, it will be difficult, if not impossible to regulate. Also, it acknowledged the difficulty in defining the "local commuting area" and that neither 2 hours of driving nor 2 hours of flying could be considered rest. Furthermore, regulating the time immediately prior to the duty period could have unintended negative consequences. I.e., the person who commuted during a WOCL and was unable to sleep during the regulated period prior to duty, would be more fatigued than a person who had slept at home during the WOCL and commuted during the day for an afternoon,evening trip.

That said, I don't put it past either congress or the FAA to totally bone things up.

 

[pilotyip]

Neither do I. However, if the final rule is published on 8/1/2011, you can't expect for it to be effective immediately.

no, in fact it would be almost impossible. Just looking for a reference if there is one

 

[JoeMerchant]

I'm a little confused....I thought we needed rest and we needed shorter days...Shouldn't commuting be counted towards that? If it is all about safety, then your choice to commute should be included in duty time....

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

This should not be regulated. You can not regulate what a pilot does on their own time. The FAA cannot regulate that a crew member go to bed at a certain time on the RON, either.

I see the point in theory, but where does it stop? What if a pilot drives 4 -5 hours to get to the airport, how do you regulate that?

It is the pilot's responsibility to prepare for work, show up on time, sober, rested and ready to fly. They can random test for drugs and alcohol, but there is no way to test if someone is rested.

 

[pilotyip]

I'm a little confused....I thought we needed rest and we needed shorter days...Shouldn't commuting be counted towards that? If it is all about safety, then your choice to commute should be included in duty time....

what if they work on their car, play golf or stay up and watch TV during their pre-duty period, shouldn't that be regulated also.

 

[rickair7777]

what if they work on their car, play golf or stay up and watch TV during their pre-duty period, shouldn't that be regulated also.

Exactly. All pilots should report to a company barracks in the airport 9 hours prior to show for mandatory bunk time. You can get up ONCE during that period to take a piss.

 

[pilotyip]

Exactly. All pilots should report to a company barracks in the airport 9 hours prior to show for mandatory bunk time. You can get up ONCE during that period to take a piss.

Yes This would be the ultimate in safety. Your flight departs at 1600, you are required to report to the company and be assigned bunk 5B in room 7 at 0700. People are still going to fly tired. There is no way you switch from a daytime to a night time routine and not have fatigue issues. To have a fatigue regulation without controlled napping in the cockpit is just a joke. Other countries use it because it has been shown to be the best thing to combat short term fatigue.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I'm a little confused....I thought we needed rest and we needed shorter days...Shouldn't commuting be counted towards that? If it is all about safety, then your choice to commute should be included in duty time....

I didn't know that you lived on the airport property... We ALL commute. If commuting gains any regulations, you can bet there will be something in there about driving in as well. If you live in Clemson, SC and drive in, is that any different than living in Greenville, SC and flying? What about those guys who live up in the mountains of GA?

Safety is about acceptable risk, not complete absence of risk.

 

[nimtz]

I'm a little confused....I thought we needed rest and we needed shorter days...Shouldn't commuting be counted towards that? If it is all about safety, then your choice to commute should be included in duty time....

Sure Joe. Logically then if a 1.5 hour drive from distant suburbs turns into 3 because of a jack knifed tractor trailer it will the pilot's responbility to call in fatigued and forfeit his/her pay. Always good to have a wise old sage like yourself asking questions.