UAL / CAL scope

[bluefin]

I wasn't talking about other regionals; I was talking about SkyWest. SkyWest has a sizeable at-risk operation. Most of it is the Brasilias, but there's also MKE, and certain DEN and ORD routes. At no point did I say that ALL, or NONE of their flying was at-risk.

SkyWest has been flying those routes for 30 yrs, as far as the info i.e. SFO RDM, that is not at "RISK" flying. That was obtained when Skywest went UAL in '97 after Westair lost their contract, you do remember Westair? that could happen to any regional, especially SkyWest.

 

[AntiJedi]

SkyWest has been flying those routes for 30 yrs, as far as the info i.e. SFO RDM, that is not at "RISK" flying. That was obtained when Skywest went UAL in '97 after Westair lost their contract, you do remember Westair? that could happen to any regional, especially SkyWest.

Umm, no. They were not flying those routes for over 30 years. Heck, 30 years ago, it was still Pipers running about in Utah, Idaho, Page, and Vegas. SkyWest didn't break into the CA market until they purchased SunAire, and that was in 1984.

As for SFO-MFR, you're attacking the wrong person; however, since you specifically chose to attack me for some reason:

-SFO-RDM is indeed at-risk at current time, and is flown by the CRJ-200. Prior to the jets, it was not, and was flown with E120s.

-SkyWest replacing WestAir has nothing to do with whether SFO-RDM was at-risk or not.

 

[bluechunks]

It still gets advertised, because UA isn't paying for it in those markets.

Hmmm...

So do I book my trip on skywest.com or united.com?

 

[AntiJedi]

Hmmm...

So do I book my trip on skywest.com or united.com?

We're talking advertising fees, not booking fees. SkyWest is already advertising as United Express in these markets, but United's not footing the bill.

 

[bluefin]

Umm, no. They were not flying those routes for over 30 years. Heck, 30 years ago, it was still Pipers running about in Utah, Idaho, Page, and Vegas. SkyWest didn't break into the CA market until they purchased SunAire, and that was in 1984.

As for SFO-MFR, you're attacking the wrong person; however, since you specifically chose to attack me for some reason:

-SFO-RDM is indeed at-risk at current time, and is flown by the CRJ-200. Prior to the jets, it was not, and was flown with E120s.

-SkyWest replacing WestAir has nothing to do with whether SFO-RDM was at-risk or not.

I do know a little about the company, and it was not a direct attack. The flying in SFO has been steady since 97, but flown there in the late 80's early 90's, but 95% of the cities skywest serves in CA have been there ok, 25 yrs with metros, then bro's, it was their own brand with Western Airlines(which Delta aquired) Continental, they bought Sun air, or something like that, and it is not all, "at risk flying" I do know that there is risk flying, but maybe 15-20%.

 

[AntiJedi]

I do know a little about the company, and it was not a direct attack. The flying in SFO has been steady since 97, but flown there in the late 80's early 90's, but 95% of the cities skywest serves in CA have been there ok, 25 yrs with metros, then bro's, it was their own brand with Western Airlines(which Delta aquired) Continental, they bought Sun air, or something like that, and it is not all, "at risk flying" I do know that there is risk flying, but maybe 15-20%.

The SunAire acquisition was a full year before the Western Contract started, and years before the CO venture. While there wasn't much, if any, flying into Northern CA, all of the markets at the time were at-risk, because at the time, they were still a standalone operation.

Actually, I'd be interested to know just HOW the network was divied after the Western contract was signed; whether the entire network was Western Express, or just SLC, and some LAX routes, and how the money flowed. I can think that since DL purchased Western that they held to the contract previously signed, but I think it'd be safe to assume that the contracts signed since then have wildly veered from what was originally signed.

 

[Jetjockey]

Has anyone seen a 70 seat RJ painted in the new United paint livery yet?????

I haven't.

 

[bluefin]

The SunAire acquisition was a full year before the Western Contract started, and years before the CO venture. While there wasn't much, if any, flying into Northern CA, all of the markets at the time were at-risk, because at the time, they were still a standalone operation.

Actually, I'd be interested to know just HOW the network was divied after the Western contract was signed; whether the entire network was Western Express, or just SLC, and some LAX routes, and how the money flowed. I can think that since DL purchased Western that they held to the contract previously signed, but I think it'd be safe to assume that the contracts signed since then have wildly veered from what was originally signed.

If you want exact details, I'll have to read the book I they gave me as a new hire 15 yrs ago!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

What do the skw and shuttle America pilots think will happen if they actually get this scope on the 70 seat jets? I'm pretty sure jerry is counting on these 70's for his future? We all know what CAL thinks of the crj 200! This COULD back skw into a corner. Discuss......

Unkle J is fixin' that!
Seems that SGU mentioned Q400s at CRJ200+/- rates.
A vocal number are now jacking it like a spider monkey in its cage. Amazing that they are getting a chubb over their long lost mainline jobs.
PBR

 

[homerjdispatch]

Unkle J is fixin' that!
Seems that SGU mentioned Q400s at CRJ200+/- rates.
A vocal number are now jacking it like a spider monkey in its cage. Amazing that they are getting a chubb over their long lost mainline jobs.
PBR

Is this like saying, "Hypotheticly, if I have a "friend"...."?

 

[Baronman]

Has anyone seen a 70 seat RJ painted in the new United paint livery yet?????

I haven't.

Is this a trick question? Do you mean a 70-seater or a 90 seater with 70 seats in it?

 

[bri5150]

Has anyone seen a 70 seat RJ painted in the new United paint livery yet?????

I haven't.

If there is one thing I have learned at Mesaba in the last 6 years it's that paint doesn't mean a thing. They painted the Avros with the new NWA livery right up until they decided to get rid of them. Same thing with the Saabs and Delta paint. In fact, they painted the Saabs after they had already decided to get rid of them.

 

[bluefin]

If there is one thing I have learned at Mesaba in the last 6 years it's that paint doesn't mean a thing. They painted the Avros with the new NWA livery right up until they decided to get rid of them. Same thing with the Saabs and Delta paint. In fact, they painted the Saabs after they had already decided to get rid of them.

Hell, UAL was sending the 737 to get painted and then sending them right to the grave yard!!!!

 

[XPOO]

Wow that is impressive. Wonder what happens if you take away the global airline at the other end that handles every dime of the marketing? In similar amazing news, I totally won trivia at the layover bar in Tampa the other night. I got 20 bucks of my tab! Gettin' paid like Uncle Jerry! :beer:

SkyWest handles everything but the actual tickets on all of these flights. They set the times, they set the fares, they choose the aircraft, and they do all of the advertising. The only thing UAL gets out of the deal is the money paid should said passenger choose to connect onto a mainline/contracted route during their travels. Same with Delta on the SLC EMBs.

As for the AirTran stuff, If SkyWest makes a profit off the flying, so does AirTran. If not, AirTran breaks even.

 

[145BOSS]

New rumor coming from the CAL side
is that the company has offered a pay rate for United pilots to fly 70-seat and larger aircraft.

 

[Nevets]

SkyWest handles everything but the actual tickets on all of these flights. They set the times, they set the fares, they choose the aircraft, and they do all of the advertising. The only thing UAL gets out of the deal is the money paid should said passenger choose to connect onto a mainline/contracted route during their travels. Same with Delta on the SLC EMBs.

As for the AirTran stuff, If SkyWest makes a profit off the flying, so does AirTran. If not, AirTran breaks even.

Does Skywest use the Skywest name in their advertising for these UAL and Airtran flights?

New rumor coming from the CAL side
is that the company has offered a pay rate for United pilots to fly 70-seat and larger aircraft.

Don't get us all excited.

 

[AntiJedi]

Does Skywest use the Skywest name in their advertising for these UAL and Airtran flights?

With Airtran, they are advertised that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_slJD6Jeuo

The strange thing though in the case of CAK, is that since Airtran already serves the airport, everything about it says Airtran---except for a some signs pointing out the relationship.

As for UA, I'm sure that contractually, no UAX carrier can advertise their name in national marketing, but only the UAX brand, except for magazines and such in the cabin.

DL is the same way, but that hasn't stopped OO from advertising the heck out of themselves at SLC, and the airports where they are the only carrier. Suffice to say, it's my belief that OO has free reign in UT and southern ID as far as their advertising goes, but that's probably because they are "the local carrier." Of course, the travelling public in Utah generally knows who SkyWest is.

 

[bluefin]

New rumor coming from the CAL side
is that the company has offered a pay rate for United pilots to fly 70-seat and larger aircraft.

Ya'll better hope its just a rumor!!!! But those rates are going to be less than what skywest pays their pilots. I would be nice to believe it would happen and see the flying back in house, then watch the regionals go into full blown panic mode, everyone freaking out how are they going to put food on the table or pay mortgages, god forbid ya'll have to go through what us furloughed pilots have endured, but it will never happen. Dreams are nice!!!

 

[Nevets]

With Airtran, they are advertised that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_slJD6Jeuo

The strange thing though in the case of CAK, is that since Airtran already serves the airport, everything about it says Airtran---except for a some signs pointing out the relationship.

As for UA, I'm sure that contractually, no UAX carrier can advertise their name in national marketing, but only the UAX brand, except for magazines and such in the cabin.

DL is the same way, but that hasn't stopped OO from advertising the heck out of themselves at SLC, and the airports where they are the only carrier. Suffice to say, it's my belief that OO has free reign in UT and southern ID as far as their advertising goes, but that's probably because they are "the local carrier." Of course, the travelling public in Utah generally knows who SkyWest is.

So they advertise using the Skywest name only at markets who are served only by Skywest UAX? Do they use billboards, radio, TV, Internet, flyers?

There is some a lot of benefit to Skywest in the major airline partners to use their brand in it's advertisement because I dont think there would be as much traffic otherwise.

Ya'll better hope its just a rumor!!!! But those rates are going to be less than what skywest pays their pilots. I would be nice to believe it would happen and see the flying back in house, then watch the regionals go into full blown panic mode, everyone freaking out how are they going to put food on the table or pay mortgages, god forbid ya'll have to go through what us furloughed pilots have endured, but it will never happen. Dreams are nice!!!

Why would I hope it's just a rumor? And it's not like Skywest gets paid that much to fly them anyways.

 

[AntiJedi]

So they advertise using the Skywest name only at markets who are served only by Skywest UAX? Do they use billboards, radio, TV, Internet, flyers?

There is some a lot of benefit to Skywest in the major airline partners to use their brand in it's advertisement because I dont think there would be as much traffic otherwise.

At no point in that post did I say that in regards to UAX. In fact, I specifically avoided putting FL, UA, and DL in the same paragraph just to AVOID that confusion.

However, to answer your question, unless proven otherwise, it's my belief that all advertising done for the United network is promoted as United Express, and ONLY as United Express.

As for your second paragraph, exposure is the key. The more one exposes themselves, the more known they become. This is why SLC works so well for OO, as they known via their own branding, concourse, and advertising, despite being part of the DL network (CPA and pro-rate.)

 

[Nevets]

At no point in that post did I say that in regards to UAX. In fact, I specifically avoided putting FL, UA, and DL in the same paragraph just to AVOID that confusion.

However, to answer your question, unless proven otherwise, it's my belief that all advertising done for the United network is promoted as United Express, and ONLY as United Express.

As for your second paragraph, exposure is the key. The more one exposes themselves, the more known they become. This is why SLC works so well for OO, as they known via their own branding, concourse, and advertising, despite being part of the DL network (CPA and pro-rate.)

The fact you didn't mention UAX specifically, is precisely why I asked the question. To make sure there was no confusion.

Yes, exposure is key which is why i asked about the different media they advertise in. So in SLC, the pro-rate flying done for DAL is advertised as Skywest?

 

[AntiJedi]

The fact you didn't mention UAX specifically, is precisely why I asked the question. To make sure there was no confusion.

Yes, exposure is key which is why i asked about the different media they advertise in. So in SLC, the pro-rate flying done for DAL is advertised as Skywest?

Yes, I did mention UAX specifically, in the 2nd paragraph of reply 50.

As for UA, I'm sure that contractually, no UAX carrier can advertise their name in national marketing, but only the UAX brand, except for magazines and such in the cabin.

And yes, It's only in the airport, and concentrated on the entrance to concourse E---that I personally know of.

 

[damnflyboy]

Ya'll better hope its just a rumor!!!! But those rates are going to be less than what skywest pays their pilots. I would be nice to believe it would happen and see the flying back in house, then watch the regionals go into full blown panic mode, everyone freaking out how are they going to put food on the table or pay mortgages, god forbid ya'll have to go through what us furloughed pilots have endured, but it will never happen. Dreams are nice!!!

Classy.

 

[whatitdoing?]

New rumor coming from the CAL side
is that the company has offered a pay rate for United pilots to fly 70-seat and larger aircraft.

It's been confirmed. There's a lot of things happening right now behind the scenes and lots of deals are being made. But 70 payrates are included in management's latest proposal. From what I hear, it's laughable, but at least it's in there. I think if your'e at a regional right now, I'd be concerned. In fact, i'd be very concerned that this is just the beginning of an industry changing direction that will reshape the regional concept. It's coming.......

 

[Nevets]

It's been confirmed. There's a lot of things happening right now behind the scenes and lots of deals are being made. But 70 payrates are included in management's latest proposal. From what I hear, it's laughable, but at least it's in there. I think if your'e at a regional right now, I'd be concerned. In fact, i'd be very concerned that this is just the beginning of an industry changing direction that will reshape the regional concept. It's coming.......

Why should I be concerned? I would be rejoicing if it's true!

 

[145BOSS]

Yeah, that's great news for a regional pilot. The 70-seat jets will be flown by major airlines, meaning the majors will have to hire. That will leave the small jet (which will be phased out eventually) and turboprop flying to the regionals. I can see the major airline/feeder system looking very similar to how it looked in the 70s and 80s. Funny how history repeats itself.

 

[Shrek]

Yeah, that's great news for a regional pilot. The 70-seat jets will be flown by major airlines, meaning the majors will have to hire. That will leave the small jet (which will be phased out eventually) and turboprop flying to the regionals. I can see the major airline/feeder system looking very similar to how it looked in the 70s and 80s. Funny how history repeats itself.

Crazy how it goes round and round huh?!

 

[homerjdispatch]

Crazy how it goes round and round huh?!

So in 20 years all the "small" aircraft (737 type) will again be outsourced???

 

[145BOSS]

Once the next generation of Harvard educated MBAs Wall Street, probably.

 

[damnflyboy]

A company like SkyWest, Inc will not just go away. It will get bought and merged, try to compete by acquisition, position to corner a niche market, or continue it's current formula with the blessings of it's mainline partners. Maybe a little of everything. I'm not saying that it can't happen...but it's not the likely outcome. I suppose that time can only tell.