JetBlue Vote....

[WayBack]

When do they hold the vote?

 

[n757st]

Depending on how many cards are turned in will determine if there is a vote. *-Note, I'm neutral on the subject, just stating a fact.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Depending on how many cards are turned in will determine if there is a vote. *-Note, I'm neutral on the subject, just stating a fact.

Just curious, why you are neutral? Have you had personal input on any of the 'improvements' in the last year or so?

 

[B6Busdriver]

Depending on how many cards are turned in will determine if there is a vote. *-Note, I'm neutral on the subject, just stating a fact.

How can anyone be neutral at this point? You either believe the company will make the necessary changes or you believe the process has failed. It's really that simple.

-Your retirement is at least 35% behind
-You have no scope
-You have questionable at best merger protection
-You will be bankrupt if you go on LTD. The new program is a complete slap in the face.

Everything we have is a result of some other union carrier's contract. We have been riding on the coat tails of the industry. It really is no wonder some pilots at other carriers have denied ours a jumpseat. I don't advocate a jumpseat war but it's time this group get together collectively and take charge of our careers.

 

[A350]

B6....what a crock of #$%&.

So when JetBlue decided to give out unlimited cabin jumpseats and allow others to ride in our FA jumpseats, even while it still isn't reciprocated, that is riding the coattails of whom?

Just because we have things that are in other pilots contracts doesn't mean we need a union. At least half of us came from union shops.....that had scope and retirement. Guess what? Scope cost me my job and my union gave away my retirement. A union guarantees a process and nothing more. And the process continually evolves in favor of the airlines that control the union....read UAL and DAL.

A350

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

To answer the original question of the thread without getting into a pissing contest, the card campaign is in full swing. ALPA will wait until they get a good majority of cards before they go to the NMB. 50% + 1 is not good enough. ALPA is in no rush. They simply want to wait and see if and when they will get a decent majority. The target number for interest cards is not being divulged, but feel free to speculate.

 

[B6Busdriver]

B6....what a crock of #$%&.

So when JetBlue decided to give out unlimited cabin jumpseats and allow others to ride in our FA jumpseats, even while it still isn't reciprocated, that is riding the coattails of whom?

Just because we have things that are in other pilots contracts doesn't mean we need a union. At least half of us came from union shops.....that had scope and retirement. Guess what? Scope cost me my job and my union gave away my retirement. A union guarantees a process and nothing more. And the process continually evolves in favor of the airlines that control the union....read UAL and DAL.

A350

You and I worked for the same crappy legacy carrier. Please tell me how scope cost you your job? What process do we have now? Fact, your previous carrier was bankrupt twice in three years and was about to go that way again. Why is it so hard for some of you to get over the past? We need a union and we need to be profitable, it's really simple.

 

[scarlet]

Will be awesome to have no union when AA comes to buy, or USAir, or what about Republic..(yes I know Midwest had union, but most of the pilots were already on the street)
I would want some kind of a contract with the company and a legal department.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

B6....what a crock of #$%&.

So when JetBlue decided to give out unlimited cabin jumpseats and allow others to ride in our FA jumpseats, even while it still isn't reciprocated, that is riding the coattails of whom?

So you get unlimited cabin jumpseats (industry standard) as given by management and that makes the LTD, poor retirement, pay, work rules acceptable?

That is it? Just unlimited jumpseats is all it took for you?

Just because we have things that are in other pilots contracts doesn't mean we need a union. At least half of us came from union shops.....that had scope and retirement. Guess what? Scope cost me my job and my union gave away my retirement. A union guarantees a process and nothing more. And the process continually evolves in favor of the airlines that control the union....read UAL and DAL.

A350

Would you not rather have a union, your own representation, that goes through a process, and decides collectively what to do... meaning, at least you have a chance to influence decisions that effect your career, then simply allow management to make unilateral decisions on your behalf?


What about representation on Cap Hill? Are you comfortable having the ATA represent you?

 

[airjackson]

It really is no wonder some pilots at other carriers have denied ours a jumpseat. I don't advocate a jumpseat war but it's time this group get together collectively and take charge of our careers.

Please stick to your (generally) good arguments. Statements like the above are irresponsible and do nothing to further the cause of ALPA here at JB. Our jumpseat policy is much better than most carriers and every OAL pilot I've encountered is truly appreciative of that. They, in turn take care of us when riding OAL.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

-Your retirement is at least 35% behind
-You have no scope
-You have questionable at best merger protection
-You will be bankrupt if you go on LTD. The new program is a complete slap in the face.

and a vote for ALPA resolves none of those issues.

What are you selling again?

 

[Blue Dude]

and a vote for ALPA resolves none of those issues.

What are you selling again?

No, but a successful ALPA drive provides a path forward to solve them. Show me another way and I'll certainly consider it.

 

[WayBack]

No, but a successful ALPA drive provides a path forward to solve them. Show me another way and I'll certainly consider it.

No, no it doesn't.

 

[viper01]

no, but a successful alpa drive provides a path forward to solve them. Show me another way and i'll certainly consider it.

+1...

 

[Caveman]

No, no it doesn't.

Yes it does. With a CBA the company is required by law to negotiate in good faith. Under the current 'collaborative process' there is nothing to force the company to move forward if they don't want to. We get what they want to give us and nothing more. A CBA gives us a seat at the table with the force of the feds keeping the process moving forward. It doesn't guarantee an outcome but we at least we have a say. Right now we have no power and no leverage.

 

[A350]

Rez:

No, that's not all...we do have issues that need addressing....what we don't need is irresponsible statements about what a union can and cannot do.

When ALPA starts to act like a UNION and not an association of carriers who all do what is in their best interest to the possible detriment of the PROFESSION, then I will consider a vote for ALPA.

Unions do not allow outsourcing. Unions do not allow draconian measures like drug and alcohol testing, security screening, and pension terminations on their membership without large consequences. ALPA has allowed all of these things to occur and the industry is 10 times the mess it was in 1980.

I heard someone say the other day.....there are 55,000 airline pilots in this country. There are 350 million people in this country depending on us. Never have so many depended on so few. If we really yielded our power, noone would #$%% with us....ever. But as we soldier on, our all powerful union stands there, apparently powerless to see into the future and to head off any of the mess that has plagued the industry. Yet you believe that ALPA is so powerful in Washington.....how is that with the security screening, pension terminations, drug/alcohol testing, age 65, you don't want me to even mention Frank Lorenzo or Stephen Wolf.....do you want me to go on?

No thanks.....

A350

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez:

No, that's not all...we do have issues that need addressing....what we don't need is irresponsible statements about what a union can and cannot do.

Will these issues be better resolved with or without representation? What is the collective consensus?

When ALPA starts to act like a UNION and not an association of carriers who all do what is in their best interest to the possible detriment of the PROFESSION, then I will consider a vote for ALPA.

yet the acronym states Association not union. Where do you get this expectation that ALPA is a union, it the sense that you think it should be?

Unions do not allow outsourcing. Unions do not allow draconian measures like drug and alcohol testing, security screening, and pension terminations on their membership without large consequences. ALPA has allowed all of these things to occur and the industry is 10 times the mess it was in 1980.

But ALPA is a loose federation of unions. The last 10 years have been brutal and these times call for more of a union structure than federation. We agree...

But if ALPA were to become more of a union as you state, what happens in the good times when each company has different growth rates and profit margins for individual CBAs? Are the Delta pilots going to be mad because they can get bigger gains for A320 flying than Jetblue pilots. In other words, in the good times can the DAL pilots cry foul that the national union is not allowing them negotiate to the full potential because it might undermine the JB A320 rate?

I heard someone say the other day.....there are 55,000 airline pilots in this country. There are 350 million people in this country depending on us. Never have so many depended on so few. If we really yielded our power, noone would #$%% with us....ever. But as we soldier on, our all powerful union stands there, apparently powerless to see into the future and to head off any of the mess that has plagued the industry. Yet you believe that ALPA is so powerful in Washington.....how is that with the security screening, pension terminations, drug/alcohol testing, age 65, you don't want me to even mention Frank Lorenzo or Stephen Wolf.....do you want me to go on?

No thanks.....

A350

your description above is more IMHO a characteristic of American capitalism than just ALPA. Putting the blame on solely on ALPA is short sighted. Also, it seems you are willing to spite your nose to save your face in saying that no protection is better than ALPA....


Your reply?

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Yes it does. With a CBA the company is required by law to negotiate in good faith.

Why don't you explain to us exactly what you think "Negotiate in good faith" means for the pilot group? As far as I can tell, you seem to be under the impression you could walk into a car dealership and "negotiate" a car down to a $1. All you need is a "seat at the table" and the dealer to "negotiate in good faith".

It doesn't guarantee an outcome...

Exactly.

 

[clickclickboom]

I actually decided to leave my fractional job when the union started spinning up.. Came to jetblue completely anti union and watched the process unfold over 6 years..I am a YES vote without a doubt

The management employee relationship is as one sided as i have ever seen with changes made by management at any time with no input from the employees here.

If they could replace you tomorrow and save 10% they would do it in a second.. Culture does not exist here except for you bluejuicers that wear your blinders.

No thanks I would rather have an imperfect process in place then none at all.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Rez:

No, that's not all...we do have issues that need addressing....what we don't need is irresponsible statements about what a union can and cannot do.

When ALPA starts to act like a UNION and not an association of carriers who all do what is in their best interest to the possible detriment of the PROFESSION, then I will consider a vote for ALPA.

Unions do not allow outsourcing. Unions do not allow draconian measures like drug and alcohol testing, security screening, and pension terminations on their membership without large consequences. ALPA has allowed all of these things to occur and the industry is 10 times the mess it was in 1980.

I heard someone say the other day.....there are 55,000 airline pilots in this country. There are 350 million people in this country depending on us. Never have so many depended on so few. If we really yielded our power, noone would #$%% with us....ever. But as we soldier on, our all powerful union stands there, apparently powerless to see into the future and to head off any of the mess that has plagued the industry. Yet you believe that ALPA is so powerful in Washington.....how is that with the security screening, pension terminations, drug/alcohol testing, age 65, you don't want me to even mention Frank Lorenzo or Stephen Wolf.....do you want me to go on?

No thanks.....

A350

Ok, what is YOUR answer???? Good ole' Dave is going to take care of us???
No thanks....