The logic of relative seniority

[ivauir]

Nope-not even close to being equal (equipment, profit, etc).

Opps,

How did THAT slip in there?

 

[jonjuan]

Opps,

How did THAT slip in there?

Yep-AAI has been posting profits for a while as has DL, WN, but not VX (whoops, one of the things is not like the other.) Next!

 

[Lear70]

Note to moderators and webmaster....charging people then kicking then off is close to ripping them off. Are you willing to give me a refund if I want leave?

Cometman isn't permanently banned, he's just in time out for not being able to understand the idea of personal attacks not being allowed.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I think your logic train derailed. Why do you think DOH matters pre 1992 (which is the wrong date I think anyway) but not post 1992? It seems that you think it has to do with when AAi began in its current form. Why does that matter? If you think relative is "the only fair way" why do you carve out some section of the seniority list?

Actually, you're right. The real date is October 26, 1993. That's the first day Valujet turned a wheel. So, here's the logic. All SWA pilots employed BEFORE that date should be placed on the seniority list. Air Tran (Valujet) didn't exist prior to that date, so to place any AAI pilot on the list prior to an SWA pilot employed before that date is a seniority windfall.

Then you take the remaining pilots, determine the ratio between remaining SWA pilots and AAI pilots and ratio them together.

That's the ONLY way to avoid seniority windfalls.

So if Delta bought Virgin America then all the Virgin guys would keep their seat?

Of course. That's what no bump/no flush is all about. The Virgin guys would keep their seats until they voluntarily bid out of their base. No Delta pilot would be allowed to bid into a Virgin base unless there was an opening created by either a proffer or expansion of that base.

The same applies to SWA and Atlanta. Unless the AAI guys bid out, SWA pilots would be unable to bid that base unless there was expansion, retirements or proffers due to AAI guys bidding out.

God, this is all so simple if you take out the greed and envy. Of course, not being either an SWA or AAI pilot I don't have a dog in the fight.

But then neither does an arbitrator.

 

[St. Nic]

Actually, you're right. The real date is October 26, 1993. That's the first day Valujet turned a wheel. So, here's the logic. All SWA pilots employed BEFORE that date should be placed on the seniority list. Air Tran (Valujet) didn't exist prior to that date, so to place any AAI pilot on the list prior to an SWA pilot employed before that date is a seniority windfall.

God, this is all so simple if you take out the greed and envy. Of course, not being either an SWA or AAI pilot I don't have a dog in the fight.

You sir just explained the merits of DOH- Congratulations!!!
Now only if the xBox generation would get it too, problems solved!

 

[orangebellyav8r]

Very well said. If only those guys would figure that out. They can have ATL and we get 5977 to 1 ratio.

 

[Ty Webb]

This message is hidden because orangebellyav8r is on your ignore list.

Schweet!

 

[PCL_128]

Actually, you're right. The real date is October 26, 1993. That's the first day Valujet turned a wheel. So, here's the logic. All SWA pilots employed BEFORE that date should be placed on the seniority list. Air Tran (Valujet) didn't exist prior to that date, so to place any AAI pilot on the list prior to an SWA pilot employed before that date is a seniority windfall.

Then you take the remaining pilots, determine the ratio between remaining SWA pilots and AAI pilots and ratio them together.

That's the ONLY way to avoid seniority windfalls.

Seniority is not the same thing as longevity.

 

[waveflyer]

Fuj- the most junior AT guy was hired in apr 08- Swa- = oct08
Are you ok with every AT FO ending up senior to CJ?

 

[jonjuan]

Fuj- the most junior AT guy was hired in apr 08- Swa- = oct08
Are you ok with every AT FO ending up senior to CJ?

Conversely, are you OK with every sw fo senior to the last guy at at?

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

Seniority is not the same thing as longevity.

You seem to think no one on here knows that so you repeat this mantra over and over and over again.

And so then to follow is that longevity is not the same thing as seat position. So then therefore seat position is not the same thing as seniority or longevity. So then therefore the AT seat position is not the same as seniority or longevity.

SWA payrates are determined with longevity and seat position. AT pay rates are determined with longevity and seat position. So therefore equal pay is determined with both companies is determined with longevity and seat rates. So an AT Captain will earn the same as an SWA FO so therefore "Fair and Equitable" will integrate AT Captains at SWA FO rates. Then when the former AT pilots upgrade they will still have greater career expectations than the average SWA pilot. To this my vote will be in the affirmative.

I am just saying.......

 

[Max Powers]

Actually, you're right. The real date is October 26, 1993. That's the first day Valujet turned a wheel. So, here's the logic. All SWA pilots employed BEFORE that date should be placed on the seniority list. Air Tran (Valujet) didn't exist prior to that date, so to place any AAI pilot on the list prior to an SWA pilot employed before that date is a seniority windfall.

God, this is all so simple if you take out the greed and envy. Of course, not being either an SWA or AAI pilot I don't have a dog in the fight.

But then neither does an arbitrator.

Really? Is that what you call logic???? Never going to happen.

 

[waveflyer]

Conversely, are you OK with every sw fo senior to the last guy at at?

Of course- im just saying it's not realistic to think of any scenario that doesn't end up with several hundred below CJ .... Jmo

 

[MILF Hunter]

Seniority is not the same thing as longevity.

Wow PCL, its lucky you're just a line pilot like the rest of us because if you were on the MEC, for instance, that might be construed as an SLI position. But since you're not that important, I guess it's just another pilot doing exactly what your union has asked you not to do.

 

[PCL_128]

It's just a statement of fact, not an SLI position.

 

[St. Nic]

Seniority is not the same thing as longevity.

Oh really? Hmmmm. How do you bid on equipment? How do you bid for schedules? How do you board as a non rev?

DATE OF HIRE

 

[vixin]

SWA non rev is first come first served. Unless its non employee.

 

[RedDogC130]

DATE OF HIRE

This question is for St nic only...

If USAIR buys let's say american eagle...who have some senior dudes...would you still fight for doh w a regional carrier?

 

[get2flyin]

This question is for St nic only...

If USAIR buys let's say american eagle...who have some senior dudes...would you still fight for doh w a regional carrier?

Nice! He won't have a response for that.

 

[waveflyer]

Oh really? Hmmmm. How do you bid on equipment? How do you bid for schedules? How do you board as a non rev?

DATE OF HIRE

No- if that were the case, there'd be a lot of Trump shuttle pilots bidding a bit more powerfully than they currently do in the East