ASA PBS Vacation

[princeton]

....

If this thing turns out to be good for line holders, and reserves hardly work I'm thinking the tune we hear from XJT peeps, will change overnight.

Ive said it before, the company needs this (PBS), and they need the two companies to be merged sooner rather than later. They will stop at nothing to make that happen.

Carry on.

Speaking as an "XJT peep", I agree with you 100%.

Our experience with PBS is the messed up system that our buddies in CAL have to deal with. That's the reason many of us want nothing to do with it but if a good system can be demonstrated to us most would be open to it.

For lineholders, our vacation (with touching trips dropping off) pretty much guarantees you about 20 days off in a block for each week of vacation (that's at least 6 days off before AND after your vacation) with 75 hours of pay and about 40 hours of flying to do in the month. You can then pick up trips for extra pay if you want.

If PBS will allow that then we will vote for it.

 

[Medeco]

Speaking as an "XJT peep", I agree with you 100%.

Our experience with PBS is the messed up system that our buddies in CAL have to deal with. That's the reason many of us want nothing to do with it but if a good system can be demonstrated to us most would be open to it.

For lineholders, our vacation (with touching trips dropping off) pretty much guarantees you about 20 days off in a block for each week of vacation (that's at least 6 days off before AND after your vacation) with 75 hours of pay and about 40 hours of flying to do in the month. You can then pick up trips for extra pay if you want.

If PBS will allow that then we will vote for it.

For the PBS system on vacation, all one has to do is pickup 36hrs to meet the min required for 75hr pay.

So if you are senior enough, you can work 8 days and have the rest off.

how does that sound?

 

[Nevets]

For the PBS system on vacation, all one has to do is pickup 36hrs to meet the min required for 75hr pay.

So if you are senior enough, you can work 8 days and have the rest off.

how does that sound?

At XJT, being senior enough means you are a line holder. Because if you can hold a line, you will get 19 consecutive days off and work 8 days in a 30 day bid period with at least 75 hour line value.

 

[LazyLightnin']

At XJT, being senior enough means you are a line holder. Because if you can hold a line, you will get 19 consecutive days off and work 8 days in a 30 day bid period with at least 75 hour line value.

You guys have the leverage to repeal PBS for us. Go for it.



Next on the chopping block... Socialist Obamacare. 2011 will be a great year.

 

[Fishpaw]

At XJT, being senior enough means you are a line holder. Because if you can hold a line, you will get 19 consecutive days off and work 8 days in a 30 day bid period with at least 75 hour line value.

I disagree. If you can only hold a 12 day off line during your vacation month you'll only knock two 4 day trips off at best. That gives you 20 days off and a 75 hr guarantee for the month. You then may be able to trade one of your low credit 4 days for a 3 day of equal value during the initial line improvement window (protecting your 75 hrs and giving you an extra day off), but there's no guarantee. To say all line holders only work 8 days with 75 hrs pay in a vacation month isn't completely true.

I still expect to vote no for PBS (especially if it eliminates open time and the initial line improvement window), but lets be honest about what we can and can't do with what we currently have at XJT. Our vacation isn't spectacular for the low seniority line holders, relief line holders, and reserves.

 

[79%N1]

Aren't all these days off at XJT only possible if you can bid, and be awarded a line that has a trip ending on your first day of vaca, and another starting on your last day of vaca? What if you are not fortunate enough to find a line with exactly those days? You guys make it sound like those lines grow on trees, and everyone gets one in your vacation month! What if you aren't senior enough to hold one of those, or the trips miss by one day? Then you are only getting 9-12 days off in a row. I just can't imagine every one of your pilots gets a line that perfectly touches your vacation every time to make this such a priority over there. Heck, we have the exact trip dropping provision at ASA, and for me it was always rare to find - and be awarded - the line that touches so perfectly.

 

[79%N1]

I disagree. If you can only hold a 12 day off line during your vacation month you'll only knock two 4 day trips off at best. That gives you 20 days off and a 75 hr guarantee for the month. You then may be able to trade one of your low credit 4 days for a 3 day of equal value during the initial line improvement window (protecting your 75 hrs and giving you an extra day off), but there's no guarantee. To say all line holders only work 8 days with 75 hrs pay in a vacation month isn't completely true.

I still expect to vote no for PBS (especially if it eliminates open time and the initial line improvement window), but lets be honest about what we can and can't do with what we currently have at XJT. Our vacation isn't spectacular for the low seniority line holders, relief line holders, and reserves.

With PBS you shouldn't need to "improve your line", as you should originally be awarded what you want - or prefer. If line bidding is so great and you want to keep it so bad, why all the need for improving your line? Why not just bid that in the first place? PBS also offers you more flexibility. Want to work Mon-Thur one week, but Wed-Sat the next, you can with PBS, but not with line bidding. Heck, you could build a 7-10 day vacation every month by bidding your trips that way. Not with line bidding.

There is a lot you can do with this, and I hope you guys are open to looking at it instead of just shooting it down.

 

[Nevets]

I disagree. If you can only hold a 12 day off line during your vacation month you'll only knock two 4 day trips off at best. That gives you 20 days off and a 75 hr guarantee for the month. You then may be able to trade one of your low credit 4 days for a 3 day of equal value during the initial line improvement window (protecting your 75 hrs and giving you an extra day off), but there's no guarantee. To say all line holders only work 8 days with 75 hrs pay in a vacation month isn't completely true.

I still expect to vote no for PBS (especially if it eliminates open time and the initial line improvement window), but lets be honest about what we can and can't do with what we currently have at XJT. Our vacation isn't spectacular for the low seniority line holders, relief line holders, and reserves.

I should have said that what I posted is all anecdotal. When I was junior line holder and from talking to all the captains I've flown with on a vacation month who were junior line holders, my experience has been that generally you get 19 consecutive days off and work at least two other four day trips and usually another carry in or carry out trip if you only hold 12 days off.

Aren't all these days off at XJT only possible if you can bid, and be awarded a line that has a trip ending on your first day of vaca, and another starting on your last day of vaca? What if you are not fortunate enough to find a line with exactly those days? You guys make it sound like those lines grow on trees, and everyone gets one in your vacation month! What if you aren't senior enough to hold one of those, or the trips miss by one day? Then you are only getting 9-12 days off in a row. I just can't imagine every one of your pilots gets a line that perfectly touches your vacation every time to make this such a priority over there. Heck, we have the exact trip dropping provision at ASA, and for me it was always rare to find - and be awarded - the line that touches so perfectly.

Again anecdotally, especially in my case where I'm IAH based, we have had 400-500+ lines. So there are tons of trips built to accommodate that type of vacation bidding. Even if it doesn't fall exactly on the first or last day, you can end up with a really good vacation month schedule. Of course in a place like CLE where there aren't as many lines, it may not be so. Maybe that is the same issue you have in ATL or IAD?

With PBS you shouldn't need to "improve your line", as you should originally be awarded what you want - or prefer. If line bidding is so great and you want to keep it so bad, why all the need for improving your line? Why not just bid that in the first place? PBS also offers you more flexibility. Want to work Mon-Thur one week, but Wed-Sat the next, you can with PBS, but not with line bidding. Heck, you could build a 7-10 day vacation every month by bidding your trips that way. Not with line bidding.

There is a lot you can do with this, and I hope you guys are open to looking at it instead of just shooting it down.

Even if you get the line you want, there may be a better trip that you rather have. In our ILIW we can improve our line to work Mon-Thur one week and Wed-Sat the next, assuming you didn't get a line like that which we do have many of. What we have gives us the flexibility you say PBS gives you. So why should we go with PBS and risk losing what we already have? In other words, why go with PBS and build our protections into it like vacation and open time and ILIW when we already have all that already?

 

[79%N1]

Good points. I just believe PBS is a hill our management is willing to die on. Hope it works out for us all.

 

[NotTooBad]

Speaking as an "XJT peep", I agree with you 100%.

Our experience with PBS is the messed up system that our buddies in CAL have to deal with. That's the reason many of us want nothing to do with it but if a good system can be demonstrated to us most would be open to it.

For lineholders, our vacation (with touching trips dropping off) pretty much guarantees you about 20 days off in a block for each week of vacation (that's at least 6 days off before AND after your vacation) with 75 hours of pay and about 40 hours of flying to do in the month. You can then pick up trips for extra pay if you want.

If PBS will allow that then we will vote for it.

You'll vote for it then. I had 20 days off with 4 in the current month and 3 days of vacation in the following month. I'm about 42% in base seniority. Not 100% sure if the awards are accurate though considering it was the first time anyone has seen the results. In any case I'm pretty sure I can most always get the 35ish hours required to meet the target credit window which will result in only working 8 days in a vacation month.

 

[princeton]

You'll vote for it then. I had 20 days off with 4 in the current month and 3 days of vacation in the following month. I'm about 42% in base seniority. Not 100% sure if the awards are accurate though considering it was the first time anyone has seen the results. In any case I'm pretty sure I can most always get the 35ish hours required to meet the target credit window which will result in only working 8 days in a vacation month.

Not sure if I understand. Did you get paid min guarantee too? (75 hours pay per month or whatever).

I think the xjt-ers will agree to PBS if we maintain QOL. If management wants it so badly they wont mind increasing our pay rate 20 or 30% to get it.

 

[NotTooBad]

Not sure if I understand. Did you get paid min guarantee too? (75 hours pay per month or whatever).

I think the xjt-ers will agree to PBS if we maintain QOL. If management wants it so badly they wont mind increasing our pay rate 20 or 30% to get it.

Yes I get 75 hours in this situation.

They won't increase pay 20-30% to get it. The union won't even ask for that because it isn't practical.

If you really want a new 2011 Camaro SS so badly you won't mind giving me your 2011 Ferrari 599 GTO to get it.

 

[Speedtape]

That whole "virtual credit" nonsense is a load of crap. I ALWAYS went for max time off. We are screwed!!

I disagree. Maybe, you just have not figured it out yet, because you spend too much time posting on FB and FI!

Even, a fifth grader can figure it out!

 

[Speedtape]

No it's the one we did back in sept I think. It's on flica under Bidding, pilot practice bid pbs, septermber.
I'm sure what "Scott Hall" haha said is possible that is why I asked the question because looking at the award it looks like 18-20 days off in a 7 day vacation month are gone for most of the group.

First, I will raise the BS flag on your insinuation, that under current line bidding system that most people can get 18-20 days off in a 7 day vacation month. That is only possible if you bid well, dropped some time, and were willing to take a serious pay hit to something less than guarantee. Under those conditions, it might be possible. So, at least make believable statements.

Secondly, after studying the results in that Sep award, fairly junior people who understood how to bid, were able to achieve max days off, with what have been paid at guarantee. They could never have achieved that under Line Bidding. If you want to know how it was done, then put in some effort like they did to learn the software and the strategy. I am quite sure they probably spent time with someone in the crew lounge as well as practiced submitting bids. It's not too deep a mystery to figure it out.

After seeing the good vacation awards that had the maximum time off, and giving some thought to it, anyone that holds a line should be able to accomplish the same award. Really, it's quite simple. However, your IQ has to be higher than an Idiot Savant (25), and you have to get off your lazy, complaining duff and learn the system and how to make it do what you want, so as to make your schedule look like you need it to look.

They figured it out, and after a little time and effort, anyone that wants the same results can do the same. Are you practicing the big Catfish method? The big catfish sits in one place below a damn with his big mouth opened waiting for the damn to open to capture his meal. You are parked on FI, complaing about it, in the hopes that someone will spoon feed you, so you don't have to make the effort. I will not spoon feed your complaining, lazy, know-nothing, carcass.

Keep sitting Catfish! Your strategy is not much different than the panhandler sitting on the curb, pretending to look for work.

Maximizing vacation works with this PBS. If the desired results are not there, it's not the software, it's the Catfish doing the bid!

 

[777forever]

first, i will raise the bs flag on your insinuation, that under current line bidding system that most people can get 18-20 days off in a 7 day vacation month. That is only possible if you bid well, dropped some time, and were willing to take a serious pay hit to something less than guarantee. Under those conditions, it might be possible. So, at least make believable statements.

Secondly, after studying the results in that sep award, fairly junior people who understood how to bid, were able to achieve max days off, with what have been paid at guarantee. They could never have achieved that under line bidding. If you want to know how it was done, then put in some effort like they did to learn the software and the strategy. I am quite sure they probably spent time with someone in the crew lounge as well as practiced submitting bids. It's not too deep a mystery to figure it out.

After seeing the good vacation awards that had the maximum time off, and giving some thought to it, anyone that holds a line should be able to accomplish the same award. Really, it's quite simple. However, your iq has to be higher than an idiot savant (25), and you have to get off your lazy, complaining duff and learn the system and how to make it do what you want, so as to make your schedule look like you need it to look.

They figured it out, and after a little time and effort, anyone that wants the same results can do the same. Are you practicing the big catfish method? The big catfish sits in one place below a damn with his big mouth opened waiting for the damn to open to capture his meal. You are parked on fi, complaing about it, in the hopes that someone will spoon feed you, so you don't have to make the effort. I will not spoon feed your complaining, lazy, know-nothing, carcass.

Keep sitting catfish! Your strategy is not much different than the panhandler sitting on the curb, pretending to look for work.

Maximizing vacation works with this pbs. If the desired results are not there, it's not the software, it's the catfish doing the bid!

hot dayum!!!

Speedtape wins!!!!

Fatality!!!!!!!!!!