CitationAir

[vrb115]

Cuts pay two yrs in a row!! Merry Xmas!!! Keep up the good work guys...My preflights are going to get real good

 

[DUATS]

They want you to quit so they can hire some of the furloughed guys from other fracs at first year pay!

 

[gunfyter]

Pay cuts?

 

[fugazi]

How much did they reduce the pay?

 

[RCA]

It's basically a shifty way of introducing a pay freeze plus 2%. It's a sh!TTY deal and will do nothing except further destroy morale.

 

[rigger]

So the company comes in after cutting long term disability, Cutting the insurance and raising the rates Huge, shorting crews and forcing overtime. Then for the second year at the same time they reduce your next years increase....Oh it's not a pay cut they say it's only a reduction in something we told you you would get. This all happens while at the same time management is telling you how busy they are and how they appreciate the hard work.....

KLHGUFV<MNGUTFGJH NBLIYGBG sorry I threw up in my mouth!!!!!

New pay for last 3 years below! Who thinks this is not a pay cut???

Payscale changes. 3 year.

Capt------2009----------2010----------2011
15-----$142,122-----$126,346-----$125,119
14-----$135,355-----$126,346-----$125,119
13-----$131,214-----$126,346-----$125,119
12-----$127,585-----$126,346-----$125,119
11-----$123,869-----$122,666-----$119,161
10-----$120,261-----$116,825-----$115,691
9------$114,534-----$113,422-----$112,321
8------$111,198-----$110,119-----$109,050
7------$107,960-----$106,911-----$105,873
6------$104,815-----$103,797-----$100,832
5------$101,762------$98,855------$96,030
4-------$96,916------$94,147------$91,457
3-------$92,301------$89,664------$87,102
2-------$87,906------$85,394------$84,565
1-------$83,720------$82,907------$82,102

FO
10-----$79,738------$77,460------$76,708
9------$75,941------$75,204------$74,474
8------$73,729------$73,013------$72,305
7------$71,582------$70,887------$70,199
6------$69,497------$68,822------$66,856
5------$67,473------$65,545------$63,672
4------$64,260------$62,424------$60,640
3------$61,200------$59,451------$57,753
2------$58,286------$56,620------$56,070
1------$55,510------$54,971------$54,437

 

[Fozzy]

Shocking.

 

[commuterguy]

For the life of me I can't understand why you people don't unionize. Pathetic.
​

 

[Freedom]

Simple:

For the life of me I can't understand why you people don't unionize. Pathetic.​

Some would rather live on their knees, rather than risk dying on their feet.

No risk, No reward.

Did the Options guys get everything they wanted? No.

But when they were getting raped by former CEO Michael Sh-tfinger, they did not just stand there and take it; the vast majority fought back.

Its a Character thing. Some have it, some don't.

 

[gunfyter]

I think for Options there was some bad timing ... with the economy taking a hit at the same time as the negotiations.

 

[FRACTRASH]

Maybe being 100% owned by Cessna is good for Citationair, but not the employees. They may have a bigger hand in these cuts than we will ever know. After all that's where the extra cash is going. Follow the money!

Well, I still don't think timing is good for anything extreme. But when the ball is back in our court and it will be. things will be very interesting here at Citationair.

 

[airjackson]

That's disappointing to hear and is sure to make the furloughed pilots decision to return or not more difficult. A question for those furloughed who have been recalled: Did CS reinstate you at the year/pay based on your original hire date? (I.E. they didn't try and bring anyone back at 1st year pay did they?) I had asked about that prior to my furlough and was told that pay was based on your original DOH. Just curious if that will be the next to go. Good luck to you guys.

 

[rigger]

That's disappointing to hear and is sure to make the furloughed pilots decision to return or not more difficult. A question for those furloughed who have been recalled: Did CS reinstate you at the year/pay based on your original hire date? (I.E. they didn't try and bring anyone back at 1st year pay did they?) I had asked about that prior to my furlough and was told that pay was based on your original DOH. Just curious if that will be the next to go. Good luck to you guys.

Not back on property, but I understand from those that are that yes they were brought back as if they never left for pay rate. I too hope it stays this way. You are very correct that it makes going back a harder decision.

 

[FRACTRASH]

We at Citationir are starting to see disturbing issues. I have a feeling it won't be long before union cards are sent to our pilot group. I used to belong to ALPA and couldn't stand it. I really didn't wont to work for a union shop again, well my opinion has changed and I'm tired of our pay and benefits being chipped away via an E-mail, with so much as a reason why. Management feels they can impose any cuts and they are cuts without so much as a reason why. I'm tired of the smokey mirrors. If times are hard and they need cuts, just come forward and tell us. I really want to make a career at Citationair, but maybe they don't want career pilots. I wish the timing was better for our pilots, but the ball is in there court and they know it.

 

[vrb115]

Frac , I hope they changed your mine and send in the card for all the good FO's you fly with ...who knows could be.. your pay next...then how would you pay that monthly NUT you have!!! PS ..talk to your friend Bogart..knock some sense into his head

 

[RCA]

We at Citationir are starting to see disturbing issues. I have a feeling it won't be long before union cards are sent to our pilot group. I used to belong to ALPA and couldn't stand it. I really didn't wont to work for a union shop again, well my opinion has changed and I'm tired of our pay and benefits being chipped away via an E-mail, with so much as a reason why. Management feels they can impose any cuts and they are cuts without so much as a reason why. I'm tired of the smokey mirrors. If times are hard and they need cuts, just come forward and tell us. I really want to make a career at Citationair, but maybe they don't want career pilots. I wish the timing was better for our pilots, but the ball is in there court and they know it.

My feelings excaxtly. Literally word for word.

 

[Humphreybogart]

Oh ********************, does that mean instead of me getting a $5K RAISE next year I'm only getting a 3K RAISE? Did I mention that I was getting a RAISE?? Quit bellyaching and be happy we all have a good job flying. At least we're not working in a junkyard or anything like that.

 

[CA1900]

That's funny, Bogey... I've tried paying my bills with "being happy I have a good job flying," but for some reason they only accept actual money.

 

[Crash Pad]

Hey humphrey, you may not be saying the same if you were an fo. Enjoy that 3 grand, you wont hear me saying ” wow! a whole grand more in pay for another year instead of 3 grand! This is awesome!" Speak for yourself, none of us fo's are buying that way of thinking.

 

[Humphreybogart]

So only the FO's are bitching? When I was an FO, I was making 35K at CA. You're still making more as an FO at CA then you would be as a Captain at any regional. If you don't like what you're making flying an airplane and working only half of the year, go find a job stocking shelves at your local grocery store. You people like to cry too much, Kid.

 

[CA1900]

You're still making more as an FO at CA then you would be as a Captain at any regional...

I think your co-workers are aiming a little higher than stepping-stone wages.

 

[FRACTRASH]

The culture we were once proud of here at citationair is history. It's a good flying job and only a job. We now have to look over our shoulder and watch every move in order to stay off the, they will be fired some day list. We still have folks that run our company with scare tactics and impose any changes they want and lie to us by making it sound like they're doing us a faver. I will say, we have great salesman if they can do these things and we agree that it's not wrong.

One thing I would like to know, are the VP still getting their 25% bonus and are the senior VP still getting their 40% bonus. A little bird told me, management was in meeting last week with Cessna and they had no choice but to change our pay scale.

 

[OldCrow]

I hear ya Brother

Rigger, I do understand where you are coming from...Blackberry giveth, and taketh away. It was HUGE at FLOPs ! I'm picking up what you are laying down...however, if it makes you feel any better, a 12 year Hawker Cpt is just a smig over the 3d year 2011 Cpt. pay on your scale. Hope it works out, but if not: Welcome to the Union,

So the company comes in after cutting long term disability, Cutting the insurance and raising the rates Huge, shorting crews and forcing overtime. Then for the second year at the same time they reduce your next years increase....Oh it's not a pay cut they say it's only a reduction in something we told you you would get. This all happens while at the same time management is telling you how busy they are and how they appreciate the hard work.....

KLHGUFV<MNGUTFGJH NBLIYGBG sorry I threw up in my mouth!!!!!

New pay for last 3 years below! Who thinks this is not a pay cut???

Payscale changes. 3 year.

Capt------2009----------2010----------2011
15-----$142,122-----$126,346-----$125,119
14-----$135,355-----$126,346-----$125,119
13-----$131,214-----$126,346-----$125,119
12-----$127,585-----$126,346-----$125,119
11-----$123,869-----$122,666-----$119,161
10-----$120,261-----$116,825-----$115,691
9------$114,534-----$113,422-----$112,321
8------$111,198-----$110,119-----$109,050
7------$107,960-----$106,911-----$105,873
6------$104,815-----$103,797-----$100,832
5------$101,762------$98,855------$96,030
4-------$96,916------$94,147------$91,457
3-------$92,301------$89,664------$87,102
2-------$87,906------$85,394------$84,565
1-------$83,720------$82,907------$82,102

FO
10-----$79,738------$77,460------$76,708
9------$75,941------$75,204------$74,474
8------$73,729------$73,013------$72,305
7------$71,582------$70,887------$70,199
6------$69,497------$68,822------$66,856
5------$67,473------$65,545------$63,672
4------$64,260------$62,424------$60,640
3------$61,200------$59,451------$57,753
2------$58,286------$56,620------$56,070
1------$55,510------$54,971------$54,437

 

[ominbnd]

PS ..talk to your friend Bogart..knock some sense into his head

Don't waste your time. He's just thanked the company for giving him a pay cut. Do the math, SIR. It's a paycut.

 

[vrb115]

Omni..you are so right that Bogart is such a f@#$n a$$hole already I can't take him anymore !!!!

 

[dime line]

its funny, every company has a B19, Bogart, (NJ had like 5 of em).

 

[Crash Pad]

I enjoy his rational way of thinking. Someone disagrees with managements decisions, and his suggestion is to quit my current position and go "stock shelves at a local grocery store." Maybe I should get a paper route or open a lemonade stand. I have a hard time having a debate with those who bring completely moronic statements to the discussion.

 

[G4dude]

A little injection of reality

We at Citationir are starting to see disturbing issues. I have a feeling it won't be long before union cards are sent to our pilot group. I used to belong to ALPA and couldn't stand it. I really didn't wont to work for a union shop again, well my opinion has changed and I'm tired of our pay and benefits being chipped away via an E-mail, with so much as a reason why. Management feels they can impose any cuts and they are cuts without so much as a reason why. I'm tired of the smokey mirrors. If times are hard and they need cuts, just come forward and tell us. I really want to make a career at Citationair, but maybe they don't want career pilots. I wish the timing was better for our pilots, but the ball is in there court and they know it.

May I gently remind everyone that we are in a deep prolonged recession? All the furloughed pilots would be thrilled to have your jobs. And by the way, those are not YOUR jobs. They belong to the company, and you might settle for being happy to be receiving paychecks of any size right now. I don't want to offend anyone, but come on!

 

[Praetorian]

Poppycock! Since I'm protected by a scope clause that says specifically it is our work, we own the jobs.

Wow man. Get off your knees.

 

[Humphreybogart]

Omni..you are so right that Bogart is such a f@#$n a$$hole already I can't take him anymore !!!!

So what did I say so wrong, Kid, that has your panties in such a bind? Do you still have a good job flying airplanes? Some people aren't happy no matter comes their way in life. I didn't think that you were one of them. Can anyone help my friend out here and let him know if the grass is greener on the other side? Here's looking at you Kid...