Integrating AAI into SWA

[Lear70]

Sorry guys, had to delete the abbreviated profanity and that included the quoted posts (we don't have any way to edit just PARTS of a post, wish we did, would be a lot easier to moderate being able to just delete the profanity and leave everything else of someone's post, but the webmaster is the only one with that authority).

Please feel free to repost your comments WITHOUT quoting profanity. When you quote someone's profanity, your post is going to get deleted along with theirs.

Thanks,

/mod

 

[burg]

well then find a moderator that was some fine ass editing skillzz and stop making excuses for yourself.

And secondly,

That moderator hat makes your ass look big..

vizzel

 

[ivauir]

Sorry guys, had to delete the abbreviated profanity and that included the quoted posts (we don't have any way to edit just PARTS of a post, wish we did, would be a lot easier to moderate being able to just delete the profanity and leave everything else of someone's post, but the webmaster is the only one with that authority).

Please feel free to repost your comments WITHOUT quoting profanity. When you quote someone's profanity, your post is going to get deleted along with theirs.

Thanks,

/mod

Lear,

thanks for doing that.

Any idea what Kwick's problem is? Do you know if he is really an AirTran pilot?

I'm having trouble understanding why a post about the training center being able o handle 700 a year would be a bad thing. That would excellent and amazing for ALL involved!

Whatever kwick's deal is .... Happy Thanksgiving to all!

Ivauir!

 

[slaquer5]

Sorry guys, had to delete the abbreviated profanity and that included the quoted posts (we don't have any way to edit just PARTS of a post, wish we did, would be a lot easier to moderate being able to just delete the profanity and leave everything else of someone's post, but the webmaster is the only one with that authority).

Please feel free to repost your comments WITHOUT quoting profanity. When you quote someone's profanity, your post is going to get deleted along with theirs.

Thanks,

/mod

Seems my post get deleted alot when I quote someone. Why are they not deleted before I quote them?

 

[WildcatFan]

Believe me it will get ugly if the SLI leads to no seniority bump for the junior SWA guys. Real ugly. Our junior guys are on edge, across employee groups. I am very confident Gary will get involved if the SLI talks break down when the AT guys want seniority along with gains in every other aspect of their careers. He will not allow a USAir environment here, he makes a lot of money off the goodwill of the pilot group.

Ironically, my concern is that SWAPA will give away too much in the negotiations but seniority will still be slanted to SWA and that the AirTran NC will be smart enough not to go to arbitration and/or get Gary involved. I think this scenario will go in AT's favor more than arbitration personally since there isnt one thing in AT's column when you compare the career expectations. Especially since our senior FOs make more money than most all of ATs Captains and some were hired here before some AT Captains. Because of the above I think the SLI will be faster than anyone anticipates, which will bring AT under the SWAPA contract faster, AT will capture more money and benefits sooner, and GK gets to execute his master plan ASAP.

Let's face it, if the seat was the major concern then why didnt everyone stay at their regional? It's really about money and QOL, and you will get that here at SWA in spades compared to a career at AT. Everyone knows that despite the posturing, including the arbitrator. Unlike recent arbitrations there is a huge disparity in career expectations here.

If I am wrong I would be disappointed with respect to the culture after an arbitrated settlement but would actually breathe a sigh of relief for my own spot on the seniority list if it ended up going to an arbitrator.

I am also very confident that being junior here is way preferable to being senior at AT. I understand that the AT guys don't see it that way...but they will once they live under this contract. AirTran pilots CANT lose in this deal except by giving GK/SWAPA/SWA the finger. Testing GK's understanding of Bond/M, corporate law, and financing would be probably be a mistake. If you smack the proverbial gift horse in the mouth I think that will become clear. It is a tough spot for the AT guys in that respect because it is a little like playing Russian roulette to know how far to push...the good news for you is that as long as you dont pull the trigger one too many times you will WIN. It may be varying degrees of win, but will be a solid win for sure.

Whether this buyout is a good thing for me personally remains to be seen, I think it could be positive, and I am confident in GK's ability to keep SWA in the black.
The challenge for AT will be to keep the big picture in mind as well - I believe you will look back at this as the best thing in your 121 career regardless of the SLI. The sooner we go from sparring with each other to working together to dominate the market the better.

 

[Lear70]

Seems my post get deleted alot when I quote someone. Why are they not deleted before I quote them?

I deleted all of them at the same time. Again, the mods don't do this full-time. Most of us have full-time aviation jobs, many of us are pilots, and a day or so may pass before we have time to get to reported threads, at which time we wholesale delete the posts that are ToS violations.

An easy way to avoid that... where someone has written a curse word, just **** the word out in the quoted reply. Their original intent will still be there, your response will be there, and we won't have to delete the whole thing.

Sorry...

Lear,

thanks for doing that.

Any idea what Kwick's problem is? Do you know if he is really an AirTran pilot?

I'm having trouble understanding why a post about the training center being able o handle 700 a year would be a bad thing. That would excellent and amazing for ALL involved!

Whatever kwick's deal is .... Happy Thanksgiving to all!

Ivauir!

If I had to guess, the issue is that a few posters have insinuated that SWA would just wholesale replace all the AAI pilots with internal new-hires while AAI was owned by Guadalupe, furlough all the AAI pilots once all the new-hires are online, then shut down Guadalupe.

The truth is that the law does NOT allow for that, not to mention that would trigger some rather nasty anti-trust hearings for GK and others considering that DoJ and DoT approvals are being based on no job loss statements by GK and Co.

From the AAI side, that's how I read RedFlyer's post (and probably others did as well), hence my winky face tongue-in-cheek response for "thanks for the positive vibes". Personally, I would bet on a LARGE bit of Southwest growth and future expansion, as we grow our international routes (that's really the future of organic growth for Southwest, we just facilitate that growth in a much quicker way, hence the purchase).

I see a very positive future for all of us, but I'm a "glass half full" kind of guy.

well then find a moderator that was some fine ass editing skillzz and stop making excuses for yourself.

Yeah, I suck... sorry, man.

And secondly,

That moderator hat makes your ass look big..

vizzel

Yeah, but I thought you LIKED ghetto booty...

You gonna teach me how to drop trips and base-hop for premium flying when we go to your system? 'cause the whole thing confuses the crap out of me. :cartman:

Hope you had a great holiday with the fam!

 

[ivauir]

The truth is that the law does NOT allow for that, not to mention that would trigger some rather nasty anti-trust hearings for GK and others considering that DoJ and DoT approvals are being based on no job loss statements by GK and Co.

Lear,

I really don't think that is going to happen, but I'd be REALLY careful making blanket statements about what the law does and does not allow. This exact scenario has been done. Here.

Trying to apply pilot type absolutes in the legal field can be very dangerous. But I can see where bringing this up offends some, sort of like when some think that B/M gives you guys all of the leverage or that a 94 hire should have the same seniority as a 74 hire. I think it better if none of us go there.

Again, i really doubt this will happen. I think a reasonable SLI will be achieved by reasonable people and our competing interests can be balanced. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

Happy thanksgiving!

 

[Cometman]

The truth is that the law does NOT allow for that, not to mention that would trigger some rather nasty anti-trust hearings for GK and others considering that DoJ and DoT approvals are being based on no job loss statements by GK and Co.

Now where did you find that it is against the law? Every time you appear to start showing some intelligence you come up with something like this. There is no law that says anything about this subject. Like I said I have no say in either side, it might go to arbitration but I think AAI will settle. The reason they will settle is because when you look at the facts you really do not have anything to bring to the table. Everything AAI thinks they are bringing to the table was bought with money. Why would all AAI pilots and employees be so happy to be bought by SWA? Do you really think SWA employees would be this happy if AAI bought them. That should tell you who brings what to the table.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yawn. This thread has become stale and boring. Nothing but empty threats, naked posturing and ineffective fear-mongering.

 

[spciii]

Yawn. This thread has become stale and boring. Nothing but empty threats, naked posturing and ineffective fear-mongering.

Very well said Ty. It HAS become stale, and probably because the AAI pilots are nearing the last of the 5 stages of grief.

1. Denial --- SWA is buying us? Sweet! They're gonna give us relative seniority!
2. Anger --- Those aye-holes think they're gonna staple us? Screw 'em!
3. Bargaining --- OK, maybe a mix of DOH and relative seniority?
4. Depression --- Wow. We're gonna get stapled below all current poolies and all future SWA new hires through 2015. This sucks. Pass me the bottle.
5. Acceptance --- I better stop posting on FI and chairfly the ILS 29 at OAK. Gonna be seeing a lot of it.

 

[RedDogC130]

Now that was funny

 

[waveflyer]

Funny to some- pretty stupid to others- the culture at southwest is pretty much everything- just how do statements like that help anything - I mean, as much fun as showing your ass is...

Look- both sides need to get over the idea of "fair"- there's a reason it's so closely related to "fairy tale"- there will be a huge number of examples of unfairness when it's all said and done- but the big picture will be well- it's a matter of perspective
As for 700/year- that is true- expect it bc it's going to happen, once this merger is complete to include the AT pilots- there are a lot of good things coming- so relax...And keep competing

 

[spciii]

Funny to some- pretty stupid to others- the culture at southwest is pretty much everything- just how do statements like that help anything - I mean, as much fun as showing your ass is...

Look- both sides need to get over the idea of "fair"- there's a reason it's so closely related to "fairy tale"- there will be a huge number of examples of unfairness when it's all said and done- but the big picture will be well- it's a matter of perspective
As for 700/year- that is true- expect it bc it's going to happen, once this merger is complete to include the AT pilots- there are a lot of good things coming- so relax...And keep competing

Thanks Tony Robbins, but something tells me when the foodfight is over, people aren't going to look back and say, "Gee, this SLI would have been a lot smoother without all those nasty posts on FI . . . "

 

[Richard Gozinya]

chairfly the ILS 29 at OAK. Gonna be seeing a lot of it.

That's pretty funny except.........I'm sitting my 3rd consecutive Thanksgiving on reserve in OAK. Time and a half helps ease the pain, not to mention the meals in all the domiciles.

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

I really don't think that is going to happen, but I'd be REALLY careful making blanket statements about what the law does and does not allow. This exact scenario has been done. Here.

Not since Bond-McCaskill was in place... it's a game changer.

Trying to apply pilot type absolutes in the legal field can be very dangerous. But I can see where bringing this up offends some, sort of like when some think that B/M gives you guys all of the leverage or that a 94 hire should have the same seniority as a 74 hire. I think it better if none of us go there.

I'm not saying it gives us all the leverage, not saying that at all...

I just don't believe any of the "scare tactics" that have been promulgated by a few people here or the arguments about "being in financial trouble" or any other such nonsense, and I believe something equitable can and will be found between our two pilot groups.

Again, i really doubt this will happen. I think a reasonable SLI will be achieved by reasonable people and our competing interests can be balanced. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

Happy thanksgiving!

My thoughts exactly! :beer:

 

[waveflyer]

Thanks Tony Robbins, but something tells me when the foodfight is over, people aren't going to look back and say, "Gee, this SLI would have been a lot smoother without all those nasty posts on FI . . . "

Yeah cool cat, then whats your point? Just to stir sh/t up? bc Im not gonna stop beating that anti- airways drum---- this isn't days of our lives, though for you and those like you, it seems to be

 

[Dash Power]

There seems to be two fundamental differences in view point on this subject.

AT pilots think this is a merger of seniority lists.

SWA pilots think this is an integration of seniority lists.

AT pilots feel it is two great companies coming together to kick some serious butt. SWA pilots feel Southwest bought AT to kick some serious butt.

These fundamental different approaches to this acquisition is why there are differences in opinion on how a potential arbitration will take place.

This is by far the number one topic in our cockpits, lounges, overnight watering holes and the jetways during the crew changes. And our pilots are VERY concerned about the preservation of our seniority with DOH and career expectations along with our great culture. I can honestly say that if the AT pilots push this to arbitration, and the outcome appears to the SWA pilots as "unfair", sadly there will largely be two pilot groups at SWA. Original SWAs and Relative ATs. This would take many years to emotionally accept for most of the SWA pilots. I truly hope we can accept an agreement outside of a law mandated arbitration. If the AT MEC agrees, and the SWA pilots vote to agree, we can truly be one big happy family.

I have personally never felt the law is always fair. M/B does not guarantee a fair outcome.

Good luck to us all.

 

[S3sundowner]

Dash, you look at the things that swa could take to an arbitrator and the list is endless. AAI? I don't think it would take too long for their presentation. Oh and they'll have to try really hard to wipe those huge cheshire cat grins off their faces. I believe that the swa nc will make a very reasonable offer to the aai nc. The aai nc can take their chances at arbitration. But if they are seen to be greedy in the face of a reasonable offer, they could get burned. The swa guys/gals have nothing to gain but seniority, so if they lose that, bye-bye nice place to work. Do the aai guys/gals want to take that over to swa? They need to realise what a smoking deal this is for them and be grateful. Growth? That's a two way street. Financial viability? I believe aai had $400m in the bank with $2bil in debt. Can you say economic downturn and oil spike? $400m is very modest in these times. $230m in bag fees for 2009? Well run company? Hmm. Not so sure. SWA will show them how it's done. GLTA.

 

[dicko]

There seems to be two fundamental differences in view point on this subject.

AT pilots think this is a merger of seniority lists.

SWA pilots think this is an integration of seniority lists.

AT pilots feel it is two great companies coming together to kick some serious butt. SWA pilots feel Southwest bought AT to kick some serious butt.

These fundamental different approaches to this acquisition is why there are differences in opinion on how a potential arbitration will take place.

This is by far the number one topic in our cockpits, lounges, overnight watering holes and the jetways during the crew changes. And our pilots are VERY concerned about the preservation of our seniority with DOH and career expectations along with our great culture. I can honestly say that if the AT pilots push this to arbitration, and the outcome appears to the SWA pilots as "unfair", sadly there will largely be two pilot groups at SWA. Original SWAs and Relative ATs. This would take many years to emotionally accept for most of the SWA pilots. I truly hope we can accept an agreement outside of a law mandated arbitration. If the AT MEC agrees, and the SWA pilots vote to agree, we can truly be one big happy family.

I have personally never felt the law is always fair. M/B does not guarantee a fair outcome.

Good luck to us all.

So ..... You're saying that you won't speak to us if you don't get what you want ? If you dont get what you think is fair you're going to behave like a child. You are going to help destroy your much vaunted culture ?

I dont care how many years it takes you to "emotionally accept" the outcome. Grow up. You sound like an old US Air pilot.

I think you should amend the last line of your post to read; "Good luck to me".

 

[Cometman]

So ..... You're saying that you won't speak to us if you don't get what you want ? If you dont get what you think is fair you're going to behave like a child. You are going to help destroy your much vaunted culture ?

I dont care how many years it takes you to "emotionally accept" the outcome. Grow up. You sound like an old US Air pilot.

I think you should amend the last line of your post to read; "Good luck to me".

I really do not think he meant it that way. You have to realize that if it goes to arbitration it will be fair. There will probably be 3 arbitrators that hears the case. They will see that Air tran is bringing nothing to the table except employees. Everything else was bought with money. Like I said I think most employees from Airtran realize that. There must be a reason why 100% of the Airtran employees are very happy with the buy out and cannot wait for the deal to be complete. Relax and enjoy what you get. It will be fair.