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Jeff is Challenging Scope.

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145BOSS

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Posts
170
Among some of the new UA/CO flights announced today are some flights to be operated by 70-seat commuters. Jeff is so confident that we are going to give away scope that he is already announcing routes.

Depart:
1:00 p.m.
Fri., May. 6, 2011
Houston, TX (IAH - Intercontinental)
Arrive:
5:30 p.m.
Fri., May. 6, 2011
Montreal, QC Canada (YUL - Trudeau)
Travel Time:
3 hr 30 mn
OnePass Miles/
Elite Qualification*:
1,584 /150%
Flight: CO1282
Aircraft: Embraer ERJ-170
Fare Class: Economy (B)
Meal: None
See On-Time Performance
View Seats
Flight CO 1282 is operated by SHUTTLE AMERICA DBA UNITED EXPRESS.
 
There is another thread about Q3 profits at both airlines. Please do not give Jeff any RJs. Take it all back.
 
It's the classic "Screw you and your contract, I'll do what I want. FU, grieve it" approach by airline management.

In addition, he wants to set a precedent for a bought-off arbitrator and thinks UAL and CAL ALPA doesn't have the cahones to do anything about it. He might be right.
 
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Draginass said:
It's the classic "Screw you and your contract, I'll do what I want. FU, grieve it" approach by airline management.

In addition, he wants to set a precedent for a bought-off arbitrator and thinks UAL and CAL ALPA doesn't have the cahones to do anything about it. He might be right.
Click to expand...


Might is an understatement. If you knew where some the IAH cahomes had been you would realize CAL ALPA is the laughing stock of the entire industry. If I was Jeff, I would be doing a whole lot more 170 flying from CAL hubs.
 
Those are the guys with Guppie Killer stickers on their flight bags.
What do you think?
PBR
 
UA/CAL ALPA should (while also taking issue with management) take this up with SA (republic) teamsters. Let them (the pilots) know ahead of time this is wrong (against CAL scope) and will not be tolerated.

Let them (the SA pilots) know that any busting, bending or testing the limits of CAL/UA scope (cal/us jobs) will not be allowed. Let the SA pilot/teamsters go to their management (republic) and tell them they side with the CAL/UA pilots on this issue.
 
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Houston to become a UA mini hub before a JCBA is reached. SKW is transferring CRJ700 from DEN to IAH, XJT is transferring ERJs to DEN to replace them. This is an end run around CAL scope and it's doubtful that CALALPA can do anything about it, it's all UA flying. The CAL flight numbers means nothing since its STAR Alliance code share. As each one of these flights is added it becomes more expensive for the UAL pilots to get the flying back.
 
Whydoitry said:
Houston to become a UA mini hub before a JCBA is reached. SKW is transferring CRJ700 from DEN to IAH, XJT is transferring ERJs to DEN to replace them. This is an end run around CAL scope and it's doubtful that CALALPA can do anything about it, it's all UA flying. The CAL flight numbers means nothing since its STAR Alliance code share. As each one of these flights is added it becomes more expensive for the UAL pilots to get the flying back.
Click to expand...


I'm not sure that is entirely true. Both companies are just aligning the right plane for the right route. There is NO growth of RJ flying as both companies are maxed out as per the individual CBA's. If there is an increase in block hours at either UAL or CAL, it must be added to the other carrier as per the Transition Agreement which prevents whipsaw!

Yogi
 
DontFeedTheBear said:
I'm not sure that is entirely true. Both companies are just aligning the right plane for the right route. There is NO growth of RJ flying as both companies are maxed out as per the individual CBA's. If there is an increase in block hours at either UAL or CAL, it must be added to the other carrier as per the Transition Agreement which prevents whipsaw!

Yogi
Click to expand...

I don't know what the internal numbers are and I hope ALPA is keeping track. All I know is what I see, and that is CRJ700's parked at C, UAL Express flights added to IAH. XJT charter shutting down to put the remaining 6 aircraft into UAL Express service. This is also not a current CAL or UAL route, so it is new flying.
 
CALALPA will again do nothing about it. They are too busy putting out fires they started in their own ranks. We're screwed.
 
NO but I am not dumb enough to blame someone for taking a job. Especially since the experience obtained from that job is required to make it to the big show. It is up to all main line pilots to protect their own jobs. Not the job of the “RJ” pilots to protect the job of the main line pilots. No one starts in this industry thinking yea I want to work for contract carrier!
 
DontFeedTheBear said:
I'm not sure that is entirely true. Both companies are just aligning the right plane for the right route. There is NO growth of RJ flying as both companies are maxed out as per the individual CBA's. If there is an increase in block hours at either UAL or CAL, it must be added to the other carrier as per the Transition Agreement which prevents whipsaw!

Yogi
Click to expand...

Whipsaw!!!!???? the only side making out with this crap is republic, UAL/CO are losing routes......WTFO!....Give my $%^&*() job back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and yes it is MY $%^@#^& job!!!!
 
Twisted Mind said:
NO but I am not dumb enough to blame someone for taking a job. Especially since the experience obtained from that job is required to make it to the big show. It is up to all main line pilots to protect their own jobs. Not the job of the “RJ” pilots to protect the job of the main line pilots. No one starts in this industry thinking yea I want to work for contract carrier!
Click to expand...
Might want to tell that to MGT. and the senior Regional guys. They have planes of making it a long term low paying job.
 
Whydoitry said:
I don't know what the internal numbers are and I hope ALPA is keeping track. All I know is what I see, and that is CRJ700's parked at C, UAL Express flights added to IAH. XJT charter shutting down to put the remaining 6 aircraft into UAL Express service. This is also not a current CAL or UAL route, so it is new flying.
Click to expand...

It may be a new route, but are you sure it is new flying? There is growth at CAL mainline right now going on (and a litttle bit at UAL too), why do you think that all CAL furloughs are on the way back and they are gearing up to hire UAL furloughs. It's not just about the 787 that is possibly coming in late 2011. The mainline block hours are increasing at CAL to equalize the flying as per the Transition Agreement. It is not CAL's fault that UAL has their scope which still may have some room for the regionals. We need to fight for SCOPE as hard as ever and get the flying back! That will stop all this crap...

Yogi
 
So a new route isn't new flying? I don't get that, this should be a 737-500 shouldn't it? Mainline block hours may be increasing, but so are XJT's (according to Sr. Dir. Flt Ops), and there are new routes for the other UAX carriers as well. I just don't know how you could be calm about this.
 
Twisted Mind said:
NO but I am not dumb enough to blame someone for taking a job. Especially since the experience obtained from that job is required to make it to the big show. It is up to all main line pilots to protect their own jobs. Not the job of the “RJ” pilots to protect the job of the main line pilots. No one starts in this industry thinking yea I want to work for contract carrier!
Click to expand...

It would be nice if you 'minor league' guys got some from of legitimate pay bump one of these years. Unlike the 50 seaters, each 70 seater destroys a mainline job 1:1. And while I understand the difficulities of battling the whipsaw of the contract feed business, I don't accept that as gospel.

I've heard far too many 5-10 year RJ capts try to justify that 80K w/weekends off is as good as it gets. When I was at a regional we fought hard for a contract that was light years better then a previous one from commuter days. Ever since the first 'strech RJ' showed up you guys flying 70 seaters have shown no b@lls for a fight. That's why management loves ya'...
 
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nimtz said:
It would be nice if you 'minor league' guys got some from of legitimate pay bump one of these years. Unlike the 50 seaters, each 70 seater destroys a mainline job 1:1. And while I understand the difficulities of battling the whipsaw of the contract feed business, I don't accept that as gospel.

I've heard far too many 5-10 year RJ capts try to justify that 80K w/weekends off is as good as it gets. When I was at a regional we fought hard for a contract that was light years better then a previous one from commuter days. Ever since the first 'strech RJ' showed up you guys flying 70 seaters have shown no b@lls for a fight. That's why management loves ya'...
Click to expand...


Again, the regional guys didn't vote to take the flying, the legacy guys VOTED to give it away.
 
nimtz said:
It would be nice if you 'minor league' guys got some from of legitimate pay bump one of these years. Unlike the 50 seaters, each 70 seater destroys a mainline job 1:1. And while I understand the difficulities of battling the whipsaw of the contract feed business, I don't accept that as gospel.

I've heard far too many 5-10 year RJ capts try to justify that 80K w/weekends off is as good as it gets. When I was at a regional we fought hard for a contract that was light years better then a previous one from commuter days. Ever since the first 'strech RJ' showed up you guys flying 70 seaters have shown no b@lls for a fight. That's why management loves ya'...
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more.....

Specifically, the UAL scope clause (with regard to 70 seat airplanes) was voted away by one guy in a failed attempt to save a retirement plan.

Guys and gals flying these 70 seaters in UAL colors are kind of like the guy who goes to airshow with his Japanese Zero and is just a bit more proud of it than is appropriate. Yeah, it's kind of a cool plane, but....
 
put out in the weekly update...

ALLIANCE OVERSIGHT
The MEC, MEC officers, Negotiating Committee and Alliance Committee are aware of the Company's announced plans to place the CO code on fleets of 70-seat jets operated out of IAH and EWR. We are analyzing these plans under the terms of our working agreement and will inform our pilot group of our conclusions as soon as we can.

Man I hope they fight this tooth and nail...cause it's pure BS. Already pisses me off when I see our "C" gates in IAH with 70 seaters on 'em, like Mgt is giving us two big middle fingers and laughing about it.:puke:
 
This is just the start. It's apparent that Smisek doesn't care if we're on board. He's just another Lorenzo and if CAL/UAL ALPA doesn't get some balls and take the fight to them, we're screwed. I can't begin to explain how disappointed I've become with ALPA in general.
 
Metro752 said:
Well if RAH was ALPA couldn't the pilots be persuaded to not fly these flights?
Click to expand...

Now THAT is funny.

Pilots can't be persuaded not to do other pilots' flying. They will selfishly do whatever serves their own group. ALPA pilots are ALPA pilots' own worst enemy.

Veritas!
 

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