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The Jetblue ALPA drive has officially started

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145 Lawndart

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 26, 2003
Posts
110
October 8, 2010

Dear Fellow Pilots:

We are taking this opportunity to formally introduce ourselves to you. We are Captains and First Officers, past members and volunteers of ALPA and other labor organizations, veterans and reservists, and pilots who have never been union members. We are JetBlue pilots who believe in our company and are fully committed to its success. We are the JetBlue ALPA Organizing Committee (JAOC)—more than 245 JetBlue pilots with diverse backgrounds and experience but committed to one goal: the long-term success of JetBlue Airways and its pilot group through ALPA representation.

We started as a small group of JetBlue pilots wanting to improve our careers while building on the strengths of JetBlue. Spring-boarding off a lot of hard work by committed colleagues whose prior efforts fell short of their goal, we were determined to find a way to have more meaningful input into our future. We decided to reach out to ALPA to better understand the pros and cons of representation. Now, after meeting with ALPA’s leaders, pilots, and staff for more than a year and growing the JAOC to the largest organizing committee in ALPA history, we believe ALPA representation is not only the best choice but the only choice for JetBlue pilots and our families.

Over the past month, the JAOC has interacted with nearly all JetBlue pilots. To those of you who have shown your enthusiastic support thus far, we thank you. To those of you who have been less than enthusiastic and have shared your concerns, we thank you as well. As we move forward, the JAOC continues to be interested in all JetBlue pilots’ concerns, thoughts, opinions, and ideas about current and future representation. Please continue to let us know how you feel.

During our conversations with you over the past month, we have heard you loud and clear. JetBlue pilots overwhelmingly believe we need a stronger voice, greater resources, and a legally binding contract in order to protect and enhance our professional future and our families’ long-term security and interests. The majority of JetBlue pilots also understand the value of ALPA representation while balancing the needs of JetBlue to ensure the long-term success and viability of our company.

We have progressed to the point where it’s time to begin to provide you with information you will need to make an informed decision. Over the coming weeks, we want to talk to you about what we have learned and why we are taking this step. We have also invited ALPA pilot leaders, volunteers, and professional staff to answer the questions you have about ALPA’s work today and in the past and, most importantly, where it sees the Association, profession, and industry going forward.

We hope you’ll participate no matter what your views are about representation, because this is a decision about our future. A schedule of meeting dates and locations is set out below:

BOS October 18 6pm – 9pm Hampton Inn – Logan Airport
JFK October 20 6pm – 9pm Doubletree JFK
JFK October 21 7pm – 10pm Austin’s Steak House
FLL October 25 6pm – 9pm Marriott Courtyard
MCO October 26 6pm – 9pm Holiday Inn MCO
LGB October 28 6pm – 9pm Marriott LGB
(individual city visits to come next)

We thank each of you for your continued interest and support of this effort. A lot of work is ahead of us, and we hope that you will play a part in shaping the future of the JetBlue pilot group. If you are interested in becoming a member of the JAOC or would like to volunteer to support our efforts, please contact any one of us on the JAOC.

Ultimately the choice of representation will be up to all of us. Until that time comes, here is the JAOC commitment: Your JetBlue ALPA Organizing Committee will continue to support our company as much as we support JetBlue pilots working together with a strong, unified voice to better influence and control our future. It’s time to contribute to the future of our profession. It’s time to make JetBlue stronger—which means it’s time for ALPA.
 
At the same time, Delta pilots start to work on their own drive to ditch ALPA...


For those of us tired of the pandering of ALPA and the mis-direction of the DALPA "top-down" structure: There is an alternative! The time for change is now, the time for internal representation is now, the time for Delta Pilots representing themselves and putting thier interests first is NOW. 100% of Delta Pilots dues money +/- $27,000,000 per year staying in house is NOW...to be put to work for the Delta Pilots and Mainline Interest's is NOW.

Educate yourselves, tone out the naysayers, make a decision and stand up for what is right: Delta Pilots, flying ALL Delta's passengers and an Association representing WITHOUT CONFLICT OF INTEREST: Delta Pilots!!!

For more information:

HTML Code:
www.DeltaPilotsAssociation.org
 
Last edited:
BB,

Time will tell, personally I doubt they'll leave ALPA!
 
At the same time, Delta pilots start to work on their own drive to ditch ALPA...


For those of us tired of the pandering of ALPA and the mis-direction of the DALPA "top-down" structure: There is an alternative! The time for change is now, the time for internal representation is now, the time for Delta Pilots representing themselves and putting thier interests first is NOW. 100% of Delta Pilots dues money +/- $27,000,000 per year staying in house is NOW...to be put to work for the Delta Pilots and Mainline Interest's is NOW.

Educate yourselves, tone out the naysayers, make a decision and stand up for what is right: Delta Pilots, flying ALL Delta's passengers and an Association representing WITHOUT CONFLICT OF INTEREST: Delta Pilots!!!

For more information:

HTML Code:
www.DeltaPilotsAssociation.org

Up to 65 followers.

Yep it is a tidal wave...
 
At the same time, Delta pilots start to work on their own drive to ditch ALPA...


For those of us tired of the pandering of ALPA and the mis-direction of the DALPA "top-down" structure: There is an alternative! The time for change is now, the time for internal representation is now, the time for Delta Pilots representing themselves and putting thier interests first is NOW. 100% of Delta Pilots dues money +/- $27,000,000 per year staying in house is NOW...to be put to work for the Delta Pilots and Mainline Interest's is NOW.

Educate yourselves, tone out the naysayers, make a decision and stand up for what is right: Delta Pilots, flying ALL Delta's passengers and an Association representing WITHOUT CONFLICT OF INTEREST: Delta Pilots!!!

For more information:
HTML Code:
www.DeltaPilotsAssociation.org

Oh Blue Bayou. This is a group of 70 pilots out of almost 10000 at Delta. Some homework for you. Research what this is about then check back in.

Blue Bayou. Explain to all of us how Seniority lists, trip rigs, duty rigs, rest, safety, vacation, pay protection, LTD medical, etc came about. I will help you out? ALPA. You enjoy those currently? I will answer for you. YES.

Amazing that all the union bashers still keep their recall rights. Hmmm first of all ALPA got them recall in a contract(pre-union days back(1930s) in the day there was no recall) and then they bitch about this and that. If it is so bad and one hates the union so much give up the recall. How many BOBs have recall? A little hypocritical to keep recall rights if they are so anti-union.................
 
At the same time, Delta pilots start to work on their own drive to ditch ALPA...


For those of us tired of the pandering of ALPA and the mis-direction of the DALPA "top-down" structure: There is an alternative! The time for change is now, the time for internal representation is now, the time for Delta Pilots representing themselves and putting thier interests first is NOW. 100% of Delta Pilots dues money +/- $27,000,000 per year staying in house is NOW...to be put to work for the Delta Pilots and Mainline Interest's is NOW.

Educate yourselves, tone out the naysayers, make a decision and stand up for what is right: Delta Pilots, flying ALL Delta's passengers and an Association representing WITHOUT CONFLICT OF INTEREST: Delta Pilots!!!

For more information:

HTML Code:
www.DeltaPilotsAssociation.org
Well, Proportionally this dump ALPA movement at Delta is much smaller than the BOBS at Jetblue - and they dont have the benefit of being funded by the company like you guys were.
 
great, now you can look forward to 50% of your flying going to a contract carrier.

As is what would prevent that from happening now?

I noticed you flew the Dash 8? 50 seater jets are done in this new aviation world. 100 seaters are established in mainline fleets. Props will flown by feeders. Back to the way it was prior to mid 1990's
 
October 8, 2010

We decided to reach out to ALPA to better understand the pros and cons of representation.


Please enlighten me with the "cons" that ALPA shared with you? Did it include any of the following:

1. Your dues will be gladly taken to further support our bloated overhead.

2. Your dues will be sued to compete with other pilot groups interested in taking your job

3. We promise to support whatever is in the best interest of the faction within ALPA that generates the most money (except when it comes to scope when we will take the opposite approach)

I am sure there are thousands of other reasons but from the many Jet Blue pilots I know this will never get anywhere. The only group within JetBlue that will buy into this are the ACA guys - they all came in with a chip on thier shoulders. Obviously the smart vote here is anything buy ALPA. An in-house union is a much better alternative.
 
At the same time, Delta pilots start to work on their own drive to ditch ALPA...


For those of us tired of the pandering of ALPA and the mis-direction of the DALPA "top-down" structure: There is an alternative! The time for change is now, the time for internal representation is now, the time for Delta Pilots representing themselves and putting thier interests first is NOW. 100% of Delta Pilots dues money +/- $27,000,000 per year staying in house is NOW...to be put to work for the Delta Pilots and Mainline Interest's is NOW.

Educate yourselves, tone out the naysayers, make a decision and stand up for what is right: Delta Pilots, flying ALL Delta's passengers and an Association representing WITHOUT CONFLICT OF INTEREST: Delta Pilots!!!

For more information:
HTML Code:
www.DeltaPilotsAssociation.orghttp://www.DeltaPilotsAssociation.org

Yawn......I'm at Delta and have never heard of these monkeys......

It's a handful of whining NWA types who didn't get their way when they named the airline.......99 percent of the NWA family are good peeps so don't jump on me.........

oooooo Bayou....big things happening at Delta.....whatever!!
 
Unless your group is big in numbers, you'll have limited resources when the fight gets going if you stay independent. I'd venture to say more than 5000 members is a must. Anything less, and you risk getting outspent, outfoxed, outclassed, and at times steamrolled. Believe it! A determined management team, can and will use its vast resources to out maneuver a small and vulnerable group. It's like sending a kid with a stick to a gun fight.

The RLA and NMB are very hard to navigate through. Despite what conventional wisdom might be, they are not there to make pilots' lives easier. More often than not, they provide more opsticles than a helping hand. Timing, lawyering, strategy has to be crisp. An organization like ALPA can provide that if needed.

ALPA is not perfect. But it has vast legal, monetary, amongst other resources, that are simply impossible for a small group to obtain. What you do with them will ultimately be up to you. SWAPA and the APA work for Southwest and American. In part because of their numbers. Southwest has north of 5000 pilots, and American possibly more than 8000, not including their furloughs. The pot of money those numbers generate is significant. In SWA's case, it also helps that they deal with a friendlier management that most do not enjoy.

Of course this is just my observation which is probably not worth more than a cup Joe. Regardless, best of luck with your choices. Now is probably a good time to start thinking about obtaining solid legal protections. Since mergers appear to fall from trees now at days.
 
You know, a union is not a bad organization when there is an honest effort made to negotiate terms on both sides. Our management has no desire to see a union on the property-- do you think a marriage forced upon these guys is going to be an amicable one? Everything will be on the table and there will be no desire on our management's part to make things easy... I can care less, I'm senior enough to know my outcome will be ok. However, for all you junior folks out there-- don't be surprised when the E-190 flying goes to Republic... or the shuttle bus to Kew is taken away, or DH pay becomes 50% or pay protection goes away... don't be surprised if the economy dips into another recession and we start negotiating during that time period and we get a concessionary contract... There are those who say that pay and benefits are not high on the list but merger and acquisition protection is-- I hear you, but there are thousands of pilots out on the street in furlough status or saw their jobs disappear (Midwest/TWA/ATA/Frontier LINK/Comair) because the companies decided their seats weren't needed anymore.

Jetblue is different, unique-- we've made it 10 years without a union in the entire airline. My gut feeling is that ALPA will be the great beginning-- the beginning of the end of Jetblue as we know it.
 
This same argument played out during the ALPA drive at SkyWest: go in-house. Funny thing is, we had an in-house union drive the previous year or 2 and the same guys we're screaming "anything but in-house. We won't have the resources!"
 
My gut feeling is that ALPA will be the great beginning-- the beginning of the end of Jetblue as we know it.


Says the former military, senior Airbus Captain....

Did you see that $130/month increase in our insurance premiums? That's over $600/month for me next year.

Did you see the email from the CBC...

"This year’s open enrollment process ended with no opportunity for us to participate in the formulations of this year’s offerings."


"At this time the Company has stated that it has no expectation of making any changes in our plan for immediate future."


"It appears that virtually no preparation for the 2011 open enrollment process had occurred into July of this year. This resulted in a response which was very disappointing. Instead of including the CBC (either in the form of the full committee or a sub team of SME’s) in a collaborative process the company proceeded to resolve the entire issue without the benefit of collaborative input."


Without the benefit of collaborative input....the current process doesn't work. Time for a change.

So our committe has no seat at the table....and I incur a $130/month increase next year. How can you possibly be satisfied with that?

Oh that's right....you're a former military, senior Airbus Captain....:rolleyes:
 
You know, a union is not a bad organization when there is an honest effort made to negotiate terms on both sides. Our management has no desire to see a union on the property-- do you think a marriage forced upon these guys is going to be an amicable one? Everything will be on the table and there will be no desire on our management's part to make things easy... I can care less, I'm senior enough to know my outcome will be ok. However, for all you junior folks out there-- don't be surprised when the E-190 flying goes to Republic... or the shuttle bus to Kew is taken away, or DH pay becomes 50% or pay protection goes away... don't be surprised if the economy dips into another recession and we start negotiating during that time period and we get a concessionary contract... There are those who say that pay and benefits are not high on the list but merger and acquisition protection is-- I hear you, but there are thousands of pilots out on the street in furlough status or saw their jobs disappear (Midwest/TWA/ATA/Frontier LINK/Comair) because the companies decided their seats weren't needed anymore.

Jetblue is different, unique-- we've made it 10 years without a union in the entire airline. My gut feeling is that ALPA will be the great beginning-- the beginning of the end of Jetblue as we know it.

You just cited exactly why guys like YOU are the problem...
 
Are you seriously blaming the company for health care cost increses? That rests solely on Obama - his great health care plan is that everyone working gets to pay more to cover everyone who does not have ins. it is a total joke.
 
Are you seriously blaming the company for health care cost increses? That rests solely on Obama.

Yes. I am seriously blaming the company. Industry average cost split is 80/20. I will pay a 37% share next year. It's not Obama...it's Barger.
 

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