Senate, House Agree to Sixfold Boost in Airline Pilots' Flight Experience

[livin'thesim]

It's not perfect, but it is better than nothing.

 

[maru657]

Good start, Now address the rest and duty time regulations

 

[CoolSidePillow]

Black pen or Blue!!!!?

Now that is funny.
If you see it, log it.
If you fly in it, double it.

 

[Splert]

Colgan has done more for pilot wages and QOL than ALPA could in one hundred years.

You sir are an ***********************************.

 

[davessn763]

Good start, Now address the rest and duty time regulations

I think we can wait another 16 years.

By the way they are sitting at the President Obama's OMB, waiting to be evaluated by another bunch of bureaucrats who know nothing about flying or airplanes other than the ATA thinks it will cause too much cost increase which will have to be passed on to the consumer.

What has ALPA PAC done for us lately?

 

[PCL_128]

What has ALPA PAC done for us lately?

Apparently you didn't even read the title of the thread in which you're posting.

 

[bluefin]

Back to the good ol days when the min time a new hire had at skywest was 3000, 1000 turbine! Hell mesa had guys with a min of 1000.

 

[ualdriver]

If this thing goes through, I take back what I have said in the past about a pilot shortage in the future that actually might have a chance of driving up entry level wages. However, when the shortage actually materializes, I suspect there will "exceptions" made to the 1500 hour rule, if exceptions aren't being discussed already in Congress.

 

[igneousy2]

Look out, here comes the MPL.

 

[clickclickboom]

The military comparison isnt even valid.. How do you compare a pilot mill atp special with a military officer that spends a couple years with total immersion in a military training program..


I am thriled that this has passed.. Anything less than 1500 hrs in flat out dangerous. If you have anything less and dissagree than therin lies the problem.

All of the entry level jobs ( caravans, flight instructing, 135 freight, banner towing etc etc) will see strong demand from applicants with low time. The salaries in those positions will drop while the regional salaries will be forced to increase. this will lead to either downsizing, closure, or mergers with some of the regionals as their costs will increase.

This will also lead to more growth at the majors as the cost benefit of out sourcing will be reduced and more majors will grow

This is the best thing that could happen to this industry. Even if you have 100 hours in your log book you will have a better career long term.


From 2013 on the industry retirements will accelerate and jobs will be available.

 

[C-150ETOPS]

1500hrs of 172 instruction? Not at all. Pilots need experience in weather navigation, ATC interaction, high altitude aerodynamics, complex systems integration, high density airport operations, PIC decision making, department management, weather depiction, etc. Not 1500hrs of lazy 8's and shooting NDB approaches.

Uhhh, ...Ok.


About 3 years ago I found myself as a Major guy flying a 767-300 at max landing weight, landing at a 8000'+ elevation airport, getting 5 approach changes in 3 minutes and ending up with a NDB approach to actual minimums (with no EFIS map overlay, needle only) followed by a circle to land along with another runway change downwind.

The most helpful experience I had during that experience was droning about in a Skyhawk or Archer practicing actual NDB approaches.

"Department management" was pretty much the farthest thing from my mind during the approach.

If the new minimum is 1500 hours, it's a good thing.

 

[AvroJockey]

I think the consensus is this is a really good thing. Economically this is really good!!! ALPA should have done this a long time ago.

With regards to turbine time...
Turbine PIC time requirements are complete bs. I do agree with having turbine experience at some level (to weed out millions of applicants), but to say you need it to be qualified as an airline pilot is ridiculous. The hardest plane I've flown and which requires the most thought and decision making is not a turbine aircraft. If you want to qualify a pilot based on propulsion type it should round engine time if anything. Jets are for kids, and the only reason kids occupy airliner cockpits these days.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Apparently you didn't even read the title of the thread in which you're posting.

This only came about as a result of the Colgan crash...ALPA jumped on the bandwagon AFTER the fact. Why didn't ALPA push for this years ago? As usual, ALPA takes credit for things it doesn't do and blames others when it fails.....

 

[PCL_128]

This only came about as a result of the Colgan crash...ALPA jumped on the bandwagon AFTER the fact. Why didn't ALPA push for this years ago? As usual, ALPA takes credit for things it doesn't do and blames others when it fails.....

That's BS, and you know it, Joey. The Colgan crash was the catalyst for being able to explore improvements, whereas there wasn't the political will on the Hill prior to even consider them, but it was ALPA that did the lobbying to make it finally happen.

Come one, Joey, just admit for once that ALPA did something good. You can do it. It won't kill you. Just be honest with yourself.

 

[JoeMerchant]

That's BS, and you know it, Joey. The Colgan crash was the catalyst for being able to explore improvements, whereas there wasn't the political will on the Hill prior to even consider them, but it was ALPA that did the lobbying to make it finally happen.

Come one, Joey, just admit for once that ALPA did something good. You can do it. It won't kill you. Just be honest with yourself.

ALPA never pushed for tougher pilot requirements until this time and that was always one of my problems with ALPA. In fact ALPA supported MPL and probably still does. ALPA had nothing to do with this...but in typical ALPA fashion, they are taking credit for it.

 

[eaglesview]

That's BS, and you know it, Joey. The Colgan crash was the catalyst for being able to explore improvements, whereas there wasn't the political will on the Hill prior to even consider them, but it was ALPA that did the lobbying to make it finally happen.

Come one, Joey, just admit for once that ALPA did something good. You can do it. It won't kill you. Just be honest with yourself.

Outrage from the public and the victims families got the ball rolling to change the law. ALPA simply jumped on the bus and looked for the cameras.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Outrage from the public and the victims families got the ball rolling to change the law. ALPA simply jumped on the bus and looked for the cameras.

Exactly. That's what ALPA does best.

 

[Draginass]

That's BS, and you know it, Joey. The Colgan crash was the catalyst for being able to explore improvements, whereas there wasn't the political will on the Hill prior to even consider them, but it was ALPA that did the lobbying to make it finally happen.

Come one, Joey, just admit for once that ALPA did something good. You can do it. It won't kill you. Just be honest with yourself.

ALPA hasn't done anything in the last 10 years except cheapen the profession and destroy it. And now they want to UP the fly day to 9 hours. Dorks.

 

[relief tube]

this very bad

serious? how ya figure?

the harder it is to get this crappy job, the less numbers of people willing to lower the bar and accept a job at some crappy airline.

 

[pilotyip]

Back to the good ol days when the min time a new hire had at skywest was 3000, 1000 turbine! Hell mesa had guys with a min of 1000.

yea like back in the early 90's as a 10K hour pilot I could not apply at American Eagle because I did not have 500 hours in the last year, I only had 450 PIC in a AC-690. Yea I interview the same year at UAL with a guy who has 450 TT. Go figure

 

[AV1ATRX]

Good luck getting a loan for that kind of green for a "flight academy". You can't even get a loan for a house these days. The good news is: Roger Cohen is probably sweating a little.

I wonder what that will do to his ridiculous spray tan?

 

[Whine Lover]

Another arbitrary number based rule with no merit as evidenced by facts.

The question is:

How many airline crashes in this country have been a result of low time co-pilots?

Hell, the Colgan pilots , which this knee jerk reaction is based on, both had much more than 1500TT.

I'm fine with the rule as opposed to 200 hour wonders in the seat but, as usual, it is only just another example of a grand-standing dog and pony show for the public...


YKMKR

 

[Junkflyer]

It may be arbitrary, but the idea of pilots getting some real world experience before they step into an airline cockpit is far better than coming out of a puppy mill straight to the seat.

 

[Lynxman]

Straight outta the puppy mill probably has more recent skills of doing stalls than 3407's crew. Would that have changed the outcome?

 

[Golden Falcon]

The real outcome changer would have been the crew getting paid enough to afford to live at base and being properly rested, the whole thing reeks of pilot fatigue...