Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Senate, House Agree to Sixfold Boost in Airline Pilots' Flight Experience

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

DCMartin

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2004
Posts
94
Senate, House Agree to Sixfold Boost in Airline Pilots' Flight Experience

By John Hughes - Jul 20, 2010


U.S. pilots would need at least 1,500 hours of flight experience to get a job in an airline cockpit, six times the current minimum requirement, under a House-Senate agreement disclosed by a passenger advocacy group.
The agreement, part of broader aviation legislation being negotiated in Congress, was outlined by Senator Jay Rockefeller to relatives of victims in a fatal crash near Buffalo, New York, last year, according to Scott Maurer, whose daughter was killed in the accident, and who attended today’s meeting in Washington.
The deal is “very positive” and is among safety changes that “should have been happening” more than a year ago, said Kevin Kuwik of Columbus, Ohio, who said he was dating Lorin Maurer, one of 50 victims in the Feb. 12, 2009, crash of Pinnacle Airlines Corp.’s Colgan unit.
Boosting the minimum required pilot experience from 250 hours has been a top goal of friends and relatives of people who died when the plane crashed in Clarence Center, near Buffalo. Airline pilot unions and House Democrats also pushed for the higher requirement, saying it would lessen the chance of a repeat of the Colgan accident.
Rockefeller appreciates the families’ “deep commitment to a safer transportation system,” spokeswoman Jena Longo said in a statement. The senator believes legislation funding the Federal Aviation Administration, which includes the requirement, “is ready and he is hopeful that the bill will be considered this week,” she said. The West Virginia Democrat heads the Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee.
Pilot Blamed
The National Transportation Safety Board this year said Colgan Captain Marvin Renslow caused the crash by incorrectly responding to a stall warning in the cockpit. Renslow died along with all passengers, crew and one person on the ground, after the flight for Continental Airlines Inc. departed from Newark, New Jersey’s Liberty airport.
A 1,500-hour minimum exceeds the 800 hours approved by the Senate in March as part of $34.6 billion legislation to fund the Federal Aviation Administration. The House in October 2009 approved a 1,500-hour minimum in its version of the legislation.
The Air Transport Association, the Washington trade group for major U.S. carriers, told House lawmakers in a letter before their vote that carriers were concerned the requirement would result in “unnecessary and artificial barriers” for qualified pilots and reduce the applicant pool for carriers.
Congressional talks on the FAA bill accelerated last week in anticipation negotiations could be completed this week.
Differences remain over how much to raise ticket taxes to fund airport projects and how many long-distance flights should be allowed from Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, Kuwik said after the Rockefeller meeting.
Congress is almost three years overdue in renewing the law that finances the FAA. The agency has been operating on temporary renewals of the law while lawmakers negotiate.



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...oost-in-airline-pilots-flight-experience.html
 
Why is very Good?

This will put nearly an end to the puppy mill operations that soak mom/dad for $60K so their kid can be an airline pilot earning $24K a year.

Junior won't want to go to school for 9 months and spend that money if he/she has to spend another 1.5 years finding out how to get 1500 hours of flight time just to get a new hire RJ job.
 
No it won't, now they'll fork over $180,000 to get to 1,500 hours, same problems.

Good luck getting a loan for that kind of green for a "flight academy". You can't even get a loan for a house these days. The good news is: Roger Cohen is probably sweating a little.
 
A mandate for TURBINE PIC time to "qualify" for 121 employment is the only measure that will ensure experienced pilots employ the airline industry. 1500hrs will onlny mean more time flight instructing. NOT A SOLUTION>
 
Turbine pic would be great but completely unrealistic. 1500hr is not perfect but it is realistic. The goal is to raise safety and 1500hr dose it!!!
 
Turbine pic would be great but completely unrealistic. 1500hr is not perfect but it is realistic. The goal is to raise safety and 1500hr dose it!!!

1500hrs of 172 instruction? Not at all. Pilots need experience in weather navigation, ATC interaction, high altitude aerodynamics, complex systems integration, high density airport operations, PIC decision making, department management, weather depiction, etc. Not 1500hrs of lazy 8's and shooting NDB approaches.
 
A mandate for TURBINE PIC time to "qualify" for 121 employment is the only measure that will ensure experienced pilots employ the airline industry.

Because God knows an Airnet pilot with 2000 hours flying a Baron in every kind of weather Mother Nature could throw at him/her isn't qualified or experienced enough to be an "airline pilot" but their coworker on a Caravan run is....
 
1500hrs of 172 instruction? Not at all. Pilots need experience in weather navigation, ATC interaction, high altitude aerodynamics, complex systems integration, high density airport operations, PIC decision making, department management, weather depiction, etc. Not 1500hrs of lazy 8's and shooting NDB approaches.

And how does one go about getting these experiences?
 
Because God knows an Airnet pilot with 2000 hours flying a Baron in every kind of weather Mother Nature could throw at him/her isn't qualified or experienced enough to be an "airline pilot" but their coworker on a Caravan run is....

Exactly,
There are many ways to get your 1500 hours, but it just won't be flying an RJ with pax. It's funny because it is called the ATP, airline transport pilot, certificate, but somehow over the years only the captain is requied to be an "airline pilot".
 
I think its good.. this used to be the rules to get an ATP and have the very minimum reqm'ts when I started flying in 78' It was the reason guys like me never made it to an airline job flying for a living, 1500 hours is hard at that stage of life and it shoule be...

I think it should be HARD to become qualified to become a airline pilot, the rules should require a breakdown of skills logged to include CFII work, 135 operations, a min of multi-time..and actual IFR, then and only then can one apply to an airline.. No more PFT or reductions for this exception of that..

JMHO of course..
 
Last edited:
1500hrs of 172 instruction? Not at all. Pilots need experience in weather navigation, ATC interaction, high altitude aerodynamics, complex systems integration, high density airport operations, PIC decision making, department management, weather depiction, etc. Not 1500hrs of lazy 8's and shooting NDB approaches.

Hey man, it's a start.....

It's possible with 1500 TT, some of these folks will have gotten that by doing other types of flying that what you list above.

The good thing is that the puppy mill schools are immediately shut out. And we won't have 300 hr wonder-pilots flying us around anymore!
 
I think its good.. this used to be the rules to get an ATP and have the very minimum reqm'ts when I started flying in 78' It was the reason guys like me never made it to an airline job flying for a living, 1500 hours is hard at that stage of life and it shoule be...

I think it should be HARD to become qualified to become a airline pilot, the rules should require a breakdown of skills logged to include CFII work, 135 operations, a min of multi-time..and actual IFR, then and only then can one apply to an airline.. No more PFT or reductions for this exception of that..

JMHO of course..

I know of very few 135 turbine operators that will look at people with 0 turbine time for employment. CFII work would be great, but at some point it's a wash how much dual given do I need to be deemed necessary to fly a jet. Min multi time I can see, but at what point will I know all I need to know 50? 100? 200? Actual IFR I can see a point in this also, but how much and what if someone lives in areas that have very few IFR days? Yes up the mins, but let's be realistic here it's not rocket science.
 
135 ops require a minimum time also does it not. Airline pilot should require an ATP certificate. That is why there is such a license? This makes me feel better since I have to ride in the back of these things alot. I would think that this should cause the pay to rise some also. Better quality required.
 
Quality is in the eyes of the beholder looking at the applicant. Joe Schmo can instruct up to 1500 hours and still be a worthless pilot.
 
This will put nearly an end to the puppy mill operations that soak mom/dad for $60K so their kid can be an airline pilot earning $24K a year.

Junior won't want to go to school for 9 months and spend that money if he/she has to spend another 1.5 years finding out how to get 1500 hours of flight time just to get a new hire RJ job.

The mill will move. I can see corporations and 135 operations doing PFT.
 
How many hours does the typical F/O on a military transport have? How many hours does the typical military pilot have when they separate?
 
I, as an example have over 2800 hours flying.. all in single engine land.. over 380 actual IFR.. not a minute of instructing.. I would not consider myself qualified to be an airline pilot, however, I have learned many lessions and experienced a few emergency's in those hours.. My point is that 1500 hours give you time to simmer and learn by experience performeing different kinds of trips, weather, ATC issues, NOTAM uses.. just plain ol' experience..

I know there are many here that remember flying solo single engine IFR at night and how challenging it use to be before the glass panels came along.. it was hard work, this kind of flying has been well written about as the toughest flying most airline pilots remember from their past..

As for 135 flying.. i was not talking about turbine time.. not being around at much anymore, There used to be alot of 135 work in Single eng Piston service.. We all know Insurance companies have minimum standards before a person can be added to a policy.. there is a reason for that, nuch the same reson the airlines should have minimums like 1500 hours..

This generation of pilots have been spoiled by the degradation of the regulations over the years.. as I said before 1500 used to be the minimum to even send your application in, and then you were not very competitive, the military guys usually walked all over us, so we got passed up... Good luck, and get those hours in..
 
Two things....

I've been involved in instructing both civilian and military pilots. While some of my best students were civilian, every single military initial student was superb. They are driven and focused on the task at hand. Their only job is to make it to that level and they are paid to do so. Incomparable to a flight school who lets anyone with a check from the parents aboard.

1500 hours is the minimum for an ATP. Anyone with a problem with that becoming the new minimum at the regionals didn't sit in too many cockpits in 2005-2007. Newhires with 250 hours were nothing more than students flying passengers and praying the captain didn't have a medical problem in flight.
 
Two things....

. Newhires with 250 hours were nothing more than students flying passengers and praying the captain didn't have a medical problem in flight.

I was one of those 250 (actually 360 but who cares) riddle kids and I agree 100 percent. No substitute for experience, I was a passenger, along for the ride on many of my first few flights. I did well in training but I, and others like me never should have been hired. A few hundred more hours won't guarantee better pilots but it certainly won't hurt.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom